Nuclear War

[Acriku]

But IMO the ratio of America being helpful and America being too nosy or whatever is pretty high. And also, it was looking to turn to it worm because you say America is helpful and such, and Nam was saying America had help, and with my experience with this thing, it was looking like it.

[evilbaronatreides]

America is a two-sided blade, it can help or harm, or for the most part, both. Many countries dislike America because of the fact it seems like it pokes it nose all over (which is true...), but it does do many things to help out the world.

[Gobalopper]

http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson031102.shtml

Semi related to the thread, at least what you are currently talking about. From Davo but he is too lazy to post it. :)

[ordos45]

Gob you should have made him post it himself.  ::) we don't see enough of Davo, he shows up just enough to make us know he is not some mythical moderator.

[quoudam72]

Very good article and I agree on some of the standpoints (Kuwait and Palestine) that it makes about the situation at present hand.

[gryphon]

I know this is almost an old topic but I couldn't resist posting this. In a couple of hours every one on the Net will have seen it but he, ... wat the hec.

www.sanctuary.tk

[The_old_worm]

Hell yeah, Gobalopper, that is an excellent article.  

Maybe, although they never would admit it, it is jealousy, that spurs on their hatred for us.  Maybe they hunger for the kind of lives that we live and resent us because they can't have it.

I think countries hate to be told what to do even if is the path to success and wealth and would rather blame those that have had success. Just like many of the poor in this country would rather blame the "man" (the government for you non-Americans) and the rich for their misfortunes rather than get off their asses and take responsibility for their own problems.

The Arabs will always find excuses to hate us, no matter how much aid and military support(such as Kuwait, Bosnia, Afghanistan) simply because we live the lives that they cannot.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Maybe its the way how America is playing for god. They think they are the guardians of law peace etc etc.

By what Price? Manipulating other countries and tell them what to do.

[Acriku]

Please Kirov! All America is doing is making other countries a better place to live, while looking out for herself.

[gryphon]

But this is a better place to live according to American standards. There is a strange dualictiek in that.

The main reson is that the flow of goods and the securety towards the West is stable.

There was a programm on the BBC last night [ 4 in the morning GMT ] that explained a UN report of some months ago that child labor isn't that bad an option in under developed country's. We are even destroying them by making it illegal.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

I think the American's need's to mind their own business. Other countrie's simple hate it what they are doing.

[Acriku]

Well then that is their problem, if America decided to help those who wanted it, many countries would fall. Some don't like to admit they need help, and America has just the resources. Not that America has the right to do whatever she wants, but she does have the right when she can help a country from falling. That's just my opinion though.

[The_old_worm]

Let's get something straight, the world's business IS our business.  If you decide to run your country like s*&t causing suffering and instability in world politics, it IS our business to step in.  Just like I would step in if two houses down the street was a drug house, or I saw a guy raping a girl across the street.  Who's to say that in one year, my daughter doesn't get shot walking past that drug house, or gets raped by that rapist I ignored.  The problem is that minding your own business has a way of biting you in the ass in the long run.

What happens if we allow the Middle Easter countries to duke it out.  India and Pakistan might blow each other up with nuclear weapons, leaving us with the radioactive fallout. Or what if we let all hell break loose in the middle east, do you really believe that we wouldn't feel the reprocussions of that?

Our duty as the richest country in the world, is to help the world become a stable place.  We do that by offering aid to 3rd world countries, educating them, and keeping them from being bullied by more powerful countries, at the same time, maintaining world peace, with force if necessary.  THE STABILITY OF THE WORLD IS OUR BUSINESS!

[gryphon]

Lol, you are describing the way I'm showing "freedom" in "Duniverse / The Golden Path".

Have you ever read Machiavelli ?

When you say "the stability of the world is our business !" I hope you mean with "our" the entiry world. And not just The United States of Amerika. Because if you do,.. . . .

The fact that you have [ probbebly ] the strongest military force doesn't mean you have the right to play god for the rest of the world just to maintain your own stabilety.

When you say the words in your first sentance you'r just as bad as a dictator. In fact you are one. It's non of your business what we do in our own country, nor is it what you do in yours. But when your business starts invuancing our way of live we have something to talk about. But it's not our business from that point on.

[ "maintain the worlds peace with force if nessesary" ? You call that peace ? ]

The worlds business is not simply placed at the hands of one nation. That's absurd. It's the business of the whole world. And how diffecult that is, with different believes, climates, resources and so on, . ..

[nampigai]

Talking about giving aid to the third world if you take the percentage the US is giving 0,11 % of BNI where as the EU in average are giving 0,31, Denmark gives 1% and are at the moment one of the countries giving the most in third world aid, yet we are looked down upon due to our cut down in the budget, but that's a nother story.

I agree that we can't just stand and watch, we made that mistake at the beginnig of ww2, however we can't just use military might as I've said all the time we need to send agro engineers to teach the poor countries how to make farms that pay of, and we need to establish schools, we need to learn them how to control a country.

[exatreide]

I dont and for that matter i think no one blames you for there role in ww2. If you would have tried to fight you would have lost just like all the other nations in europe. But you did atleast hurt them by burning your fleet Not alowing them use it. So in my openion no you dident just stand and watch you delt Germany a major blow in your own way.

[nampigai]

lol thanks for the words ex, but what I ment was that the european countries just stood by and let Hitler mobilise and take sudeterland austria etc, we should have delt with him then.

But in some aspect I find the allied was a course for the ww2 aswell the "peace" treaty after ww1 was outraguage germany and austria was blamed for the war in which all countries was to blame IMHO.

[The_old_worm]

I do mean that it is our business as an entire world, stability is good for everyone.  The problem is that some countries aren't willing to fight for it.

What you do in your own country is your business, until it threatens us as a nation. Just as it is not my business if you carry a gun until you  threaten me with it. We will also step in out of our own moral obligation, to help those who can't help themselves and to protect human rights.

If we allow these problems to fester in the world, it will come back on us like a truckload of sh*t.  You're right though,  until it poses a threat to us, it IS none of our business.  

My first sentence simply states that we are connected to the rest of the world whether we like it or not, and we must do what we can to prevent disasters to happen because they have the potential to drag us down with them.  We have every right to protect ourselves this way.

To ensure peace, force IS necessary sometimes, not preferred, but necessary. It is awfully naive to think otherwise.  

[gryphon]

It wasn't personally Old Worm, just the worst case scenario if all people in the US would have the thought I described. :)

And look at Holland in the second world war. We where neutral and then fled to england. No, That's a real good tactic. ;D

When Germany had conquerd a lot of the European countrys they all help to defeat Germany. It ws hard but the whole world [ well parts of it :) ] stood together and help whatever they could.

That's exactly what we should always do, stick together. Evert country should offer the aid and assistance that country can provide.

:)

[The_old_worm]

I agree, my point is simply this: If you want some semblance of world peace, we have to have some kind of international law.  Everyone, including the US, abides by these international laws that are made and agreed upon.  Any nation that breaks these laws is to be held accountable to the world, by force if necessary.  

[exatreide]

The thing is that when Germany took Austria no one dared stop them. Germany was at he millitary peak. No one Dared say a word when they did it except one french offical who misterisly died in his sleep....

[burseg_candor]

Look.

I predict that sometime within the next 100 years we (humanity) will depart Earth and start colonizing other planets like Mars and the moon. After that has happened it won't be long before our World Wars become Solar System Wars. And when that point comes along I think that more nukes will be launched in a day than have been built up to the present.

Translation: Humans all die and cockroaches takeover the world/solar system.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

My Manga serie's is a bit based of WW2 but then Galaxy style.

Tayrons= Germans

Human Federation and other races = Allies.

Skarhiraga = Ummmmm the harkonnen? :)

But anyways that is off topic.

We will all see what happen in the future. Hopefully we will all survive the Upcoming Disasters foretold by *cough Nostradamus cough *

[The_old_worm]

Look.

I predict that sometime within the next 100 years we (humanity) will depart Earth and start colonizing other planets like Mars and the moon. After that has happened it won't be long before our World Wars become Solar System Wars. And when that point comes along I think that more nukes will be launched in a day than have been built up to the present.

Translation: Humans all die and cockroaches takeover the world/solar system.

Wow, what a fatalist!  I don't deny that is a possibility.  In fact we certainly have that capacity, but I'm a bit more of an optimist.  I hope that our fear of nuclear weapons continues to keep us reluctant to use them.  Sure there will always be factions out their itching to use them, but hopefully we can keep these people from aquiring enough to wipe out everyone.

I think people still need to remember, that to make the whole planet uninhabitable, it would take all out nuclear war, and even that might not make every part of the planet uninhabitable.  I would predict that if a disaster happened and nuclear weapons were used, we would be set into another "dark ages".  Humanity would survive, but advances in science, social structure, technology, would all slow almost to a standstill as our main priority would become survival.  I think it was Einstein that said " I don't know how the third world war will be fought, but the fouth will be fought with sticks and stones"

I suppose I'm an optimist, though, I still hope it doesn't come to that.  

[nampigai]

I agree with many of your point o.w. and I know we have to interfere when human rights arent uphold. But then we have to take a look at saudi arabia and other arabian countries where the shahira law exsist. They stone people to death, cut of hands and whip criminals.

I agree that we have to use military actions some times although I'm against violence as I think it will come back to you. I f we look at the arabic countries again we will see that they are very anti american and anti western adn I don't blame them, all they've seen from us is death and violence.

I don't know how to solve this problem and obviously neither does any politicians.