Site Updates

[SandChigger]

Active content in the last week: There have been 20 entries in the last week

Is that correct?!

I post nearly that many comments all on my own over on Jacurutu. In a day.

[Andrew]

it was a dead week or so. I'm going to be more busy this winter than other winters, so not as much posting for me :O

[Edric O]

[c=#00dd00]We have a crisis on our hands. In just a couple of months, the forum went from holding steady with the same level of activity that we've had for years, to being almost dead. Obviously, the new software is to blame. People don't like it, so they stopped posting. Presumably most people are still reading the forum, though, so we have to act quickly to restore activity before they stop doing even that and FED2k dies.

I will petition Gob to restore the old software. Clearly the IP.Board experiment is a failure. If restoring the old software doesn't work, either because Gob disagrees or because it's not technically possible, then those of us who are still here must make a commitment to increase our posting drastically for at least a month, like during the Great Dune Revolution of Dunenewt.

I love FED2k. We cannot let it die.[/c]

[Edric O]

[c=#00dd00]If you are wondering, the monthly post statistics since June 2010 are as follows:

June: 1313 posts

July: 740 posts

August: 676 posts

September: 656 posts

October: 330 posts (lowest number in all FED2k history)

November (so far): 173 posts[/c]

[Lord J]

On the one hand I feel like the people who are complaining about the new board software are... somewhat silly. Personally, I see the software and layout of the site as a vehicle, and it's not very important to me how it looks or how well it works, so long as it serves its purpose: allowing for interesting discussion.

On the other hand, if people are genuinely not posting due to the fact that they feel uncomfortable with the changes, regardless of how I feel about them as individuals, the vehicle is not serving its purpose.

[Gobalopper]

The forum software isn't changing guys. As I said before I'm going to work on improvements based on what people have recommended but I'm not able to until closer to the end of November. Every fall/winter I do scheduling for a local ice hockey league and this year they expanded to almost 300 teams, from about 80, and that has eaten up any spare time I have had these last couple months.

As for people posting less I'm sure some of it is due to the forum software but a lot is due to people growing older and moving on in life to other things. There also hasn't been a Dune game released in years so we aren't exactly drawing in new users.

Whatever happens the site is still going to be here even if no one is posting.

[Edric O]

As for people posting less I'm sure some of it is due to the forum software but a lot is due to people growing older and moving on in life to other things. There also hasn't been a Dune game released in years so we aren't exactly drawing in new users.

[c=#00dd00]Gob, several people have already said that they've been posting less precisely because of the new software. And you can't argue with the statistics: posting levels were holding steady since late 2008, and then declined dramatically over the last few months. Last month, in particular, was a disaster.

We can wait another month if you wish, and then I can draw you a graph of post counts over the last few years and I guarantee that you will see a sharp drop immediately after the new software was introduced.

FED2k's strength is not in its novelty. This is not a place where people come to discuss recent developments in games, literature, or anything else. This is a meeting place for old friends. The reason why people post on FED2k is because they have an emotional connection to this community. Like it or not, nostalgia is our main selling point. By changing the look of the forums, we have weakened the emotional ties between our members and the site. Trying to recruit new members is a lost cause; what we need to do is to keep old timers coming back. And that purpose is best served by a retro look, not by updating to the newest software.

Even if the decline in activity is only partially due to the new software, what are the positive aspects of IP.Board that outweigh this downside? Why do we have it?[/c]

[Andrew]

[c=#00dd00]I love FED2k. We cannot let it die.[/c]

Let's cyrogenically freeze it!

Then in the future USS Enterprise will find it floating in space and will see the forum in all its glory.

The new forum doesn't technically prevent people from posting and is quite similar. Maybe less nostalgic which discourages new posts.

Just nothing worthwhile to post.

Need a new Dune game.

[Edric O]

The new forum doesn't technically prevent people from posting and is quite similar. Maybe less nostalgic which discourages new posts.

Just nothing worthwhile to post.

Need a new Dune game.

[c=#00dd00]There hasn't been a new Dune game in, what, 9 years? I don't see why people would pick this particular time to post less. The new software is the only possible explanation...[/c]

[Lord J]

Edric, it's a simple empirical question: would the creation of a new Dune game increase membership/activity?

Well, I like to think of you as enough of a social scientist to know what to do next: design an experiment!

Your job is simple Edric: create a new Dune blockbuster.

We're waiting.... ;) ;) ;)

[SandChigger]

On the one hand I feel like the people who are complaining about the new board software are... somewhat silly.

Likewise, I'm sure.

No, I'm certain. :)

Edit:

Just read Edric's post on the previous page... I think I've asked this before, but can't recall ever having received a serious answer: Why the panic about post counts? I'm assuming that Gobalopper pays for the server, that this is not some free site/domain dependent upon activity for continuation. Right? So what's the big deal?

My comment last night wasn't a complaint, just an expression of surprise at how little posting there had been, compared to the past. I personally haven't been coming around that much because I just got thoroughly fooked off at the stupidity in the PRP forum. And let's be honest, there's not really that much interesting Dune discussion going on here.

This new version of the boardware loads a little slower on my home connection, but it's not that big a deal. And the new ability to hide posts by people I'd rather wish death in a fire upon is GREAT! There's just not that much reason anymore to pop round, though, in the first place.

FWIW, that's where I'm at.

[Khan]

I stopped posting mainly because i've been swamped at work. And whoring around. Doesn't leave much time for posting but I'm going to try to be around more. Missed this old place

[MrFlibble]

[c=#00dd00]We have a crisis on our hands. In just a couple of months, the forum went from holding steady with the same level of activity that we've had for years, to being almost dead. Obviously, the new software is to blame. People don't like it, so they stopped posting. Presumably most people are still reading the forum, though, so we have to act quickly to restore activity before they stop doing even that and FED2k dies.

I will petition Gob to restore the old software. Clearly the IP.Board experiment is a failure. If restoring the old software doesn't work, either because Gob disagrees or because it's not technically possible, then those of us who are still here must make a commitment to increase our posting drastically for at least a month, like during the Great Dune Revolution of Dunenewt.[/c]

I agree with what you say, maybe editing the forum skin so that it looks as close to the original as possible would be a solution?

[c=#00dd00]FED2k's strength is not in its novelty. This is not a place where people come to discuss recent developments in games, literature, or anything else. This is a meeting place for old friends. The reason why people post on FED2k is because they have an emotional connection to this community. Like it or not, nostalgia is our main selling point. By changing the look of the forums, we have weakened the emotional ties between our members and the site. Trying to recruit new members is a lost cause; what we need to do is to keep old timers coming back. And that purpose is best served by a retro look, not by updating to the newest software.[/c]

All of it is true. To me, FED2k was the very first Internet forum I joined, and over the years, I've come to think of it as a "home" of sorts. Now it feels alien, and the decline in activity of other old-time members, as well as their open statements about how they feel, suggests that I'm not the only one who has such sentiments.

It is true that the discussion of Dune books here has all but died out in recent years, yet people would still come and have a chat, friendly or not as much, and FED2k used to be a meeting place for people who have at least some interests in common, and are willing to go on with their mutual communication no matter what. The drastic decline in activity after the forum software change is by no means a coincidence: even before the event itself, many people expressed their misgivings about the upcoming changes, presumably for exactly the reasons Edric has mentioned.

[c=#00dd00]Even if the decline in activity is only partially due to the new software, what are the positive aspects of IP.Board that outweigh this downside? Why do we have it?[/c]

Personally I haven't noticed any pros in the new software. Embedded YouTube videos? Do we really need them? The new smileys aren't as good-looking as the ones in the "comic" set that was available in the old version (even though this one might be my personal preference). Moreover, smileys in the many old posts are not displayed as such; likewise, several other types of formatted text in the old posts do not show correctly, e.g. some types of lists or images. Even more, some of the old posts are not displayed at all, because the new software doesn't like the use of some characters within them.

You might say, okay, those are some inevitable screw-ups that will be eventually sorted out. Fine, I agree with that. But I'll repeat Edric's question: what are the real upsides that the forum had gained with software change?

[athanasios]

Change the black background to gray and the posts will increase for sure. If not at least make the font color brighter.

-

Συν Αθηνά και χείρα κίνει.

Edric do not complain about members not posting in the time you fail to do so regularly. Even posts of Communist interest don't seem to make you respond anymore.

[Dragoon Knight]

[colour=#005FFF]Have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Edric, here. The new design is the primary reason I've stopped posting as much as I did. Granted, I was never exactly prolific in the first place, but there was real progress being made in Fan Fiction just before the software changed. There was heated discussion, with moderation required, in PRP. I believe even Technical Issues was chugging along nicely. I can't be the only one who's noticed that this very discussion - that of the unsuitability of the new IP.Board implementation - has been the fastest moving in a long time? It's just not working.

For me, the new interface and background software was immediately distasteful. Some of the issues I had were legitimate bugs, but others were more esoteric; I just didn't like the way things looked or felt anymore. I've given it time to settle; I still visit FED2k every day, still read all new posts that I find interesting... but I rarely feel engaged. It's almost as if the posts aren't real to me. They're there, but I don't feel a part of things. It feels like a completely different forum, one that I haven't been a member of for 7 years. Trust me when I say that my decline in posting has nothing to do with growing up and moving on - it's all down to the changes brought on by IP.Board.

Please, Gob, don't take this as an affront to the work you're doing. I know I speak for everyone when I say that we appreciate everything you've done for FED2k over the years. You've kept a community alive, inspired more than a few Fan Fics of your own, moderated and conversed with us members and assigned a great team of staff. But this change is something that I think was probably forced upon you, so to speak. With the spambots and the overheads of running older software, I fully understand your reasons for making the switch. It's just having the unforseen consequence of alienating people. You've done just about all you can to cater to us, making the site as similar to the old design as possible, but it's just not working out.

I'm not saying that I'll stop posting because of this change, but my drive to do so has waned considerably. Perhaps I just need more time, and even more likely is that my opinion isn't going to change your decision. But I know I would be the happiest person in Scotland if tomorrow I woke up, fired up FED2k and things were back to the way they used to be. :)[/colour]

[MrFlibble]

[colour=#005FFF]For me, the new interface and background software was immediately distasteful. Some of the issues I had were legitimate bugs, but others were more esoteric; I just didn't like the way things looked or felt anymore. I've given it time to settle; I still visit FED2k every day, still read all new posts that I find interesting... but I rarely feel engaged. It's almost as if the posts aren't real to me. They're there, but I don't feel a part of things. It feels like a completely different forum, one that I haven't been a member of for 7 years.[/colour]

Dragoon Knight, this is almost exactly what I feel, too. I must say, however, that personally I wasn't exactly discouraged from posting after the change - rather, the decline in activity resulted in much less conversations I could take part in, and the conversations themselves have become erratic as it seems to take ages for people to reply.

In spite of everything said, I think we should hold to a more optimistic view, and continue on in the new forum. After all, the appearance can be altered (I hope that sooner or later, the option to use the "nostalgia" FED2k skin will be introduced), and it is the active participation of the members that matters in the first place. So yeah - let's do it! Hopefully the bugs, glitches and other performance issues with the new software will be sorted out soon :)

[gryphon]

Guy's, I just have to get this out of my system but grow up and learn to live with it.

You change wardrobes every 3 / 4 years, computers every year, a new car in 3 or 4 years for a new bike. Everything evolves and like the style or not, you have a text-box, reply button and a forum full of friends.

If you have time to worry about all the rest you frankly just have to much time on your hands.... Now can we all get along and start posting again.... :)

[veK]

@ gryphon: I'm not against changes but if the newest version doesn't work as well as the old one did, then why change it in the first place?

While I do not like the new style very much I might live with it. But what I can't ignore are a lot of minor technical issues that make browsing/reading/posting on the forums less enjoyable than before. Like e.g. what I posted last time: no option to sort the posts the other way around so the newest one is on top of page 1. Or that all those threads are flagged as "new posts" like described earlier by... humm I think it was Andrew. Anyways... combine those technical aspects with an "acceptable but still not as much appreciated as the old one"-design and the result is just me being around less and not being active on the forums.

[Dante]

Posting is needlessly frustrating. Little things like having to redo colour tags for quotes, jumping to the top of a message every time I paste something, that irritating little pause that makes everything slower. Not saying we should go back, because technology marches on and all that, just stating that there are grievances which could maybe be ironed out, when there's time.

And that it's quiet. Very quiet.

[ErasOmnius]

There are probably less posts not because of anything that can be done with the Software, or the like.

It probably has more to do with waning interest of DUNE overall. There will not be a movie coming out anytime soon. That was a draw for new members. There hasn't been a new Brian Herbert Dune book in almost a year and a half. So there is no spillage from people who are reading his books.

No new games in almost a decade. Mini-series has been 7+ years ago. It is a permanent affliction -- and from a Marketing stand-point, may be irreversible.

I think the software change is okay.

[Dragoon Knight]

[colour=#005FFF]While the lack of Dune media in any respectable form has no doubt contributed to the lack of posting, it cannot explain the overwhelming downturn that appeared at the same time as the software change.[/colour]

[Wolf]

Re. new forum software: it takes some getting used to, but I've pretty much completely adjusted. As far as I'm concerned, it's virtually the same as the old forum software. However, I think Edric has a point that the change to the new skin put off a lot of people who didn't want to bother learning the ins and outs of a new architecture all over again. At the same time, I don't think we should change it back. First of all, Gob put in a lot of work and I'd feel bad making him undo it. Second, the people who left simply because they couldn't be bothered to learn the new forum scheme probably wouldn't come back if we changed back, and even if they did, they probably weren't serious posters. I stopped posting for the last few months mainly for the same reasons Chigger did, and also because I'm absurdly busy in life.

[MrFlibble]

At the same time, I don't think we should change it back.

Actually, I think going back is probably either not possible at all, or is bound to end up with even more screw-ups so it's not worth the effort in the first place. What is possible, and even desirable I suppose, is to make a(n optional) forum skin that will be as close to the old forum look as possible. And fixing the existing bugs, errors and suchlike stuff (see Dante's notes above) is a definite must-do.

[Gruntlord6]

[c=#00dd00]We have a crisis on our hands. In just a couple of months, the forum went from holding steady with the same level of activity that we've had for years, to being almost dead. Obviously, the new software is to blame. People don't like it, so they stopped posting. Presumably most people are still reading the forum, though, so we have to act quickly to restore activity before they stop doing even that and FED2k dies.

I will petition Gob to restore the old software. Clearly the IP.Board experiment is a failure. If restoring the old software doesn't work, either because Gob disagrees or because it's not technically possible, then those of us who are still here must make a commitment to increase our posting drastically for at least a month, like during the Great Dune Revolution of Dunenewt.

I love FED2k. We cannot let it die.[/c]

I like the IPB Board. Its more modern.

[Edric O]

[c=#00dd00]I have deleted 29 posts that made this topic descend into a flame war, and I've edited out the offending lines from the posts that originally sparked the flame war. Also, the people involved received a warn point each. The warn point will be removed after one week - unless you continue to make personal attacks, in which case you will get a second warn point (and so on; at 10 points you get a temporary ban).

The age of lax moderation is over. From now on, you will receive a warn point every time you make a personal attack on another forum member, and such attacks will be deleted. Defending yourself from an insult is no excuse to insult back.

Now, let's get back on topic and discuss site updates.[/c]