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[hide]Well, I wouldn't say the Illuminati ending would force a cycle.  THe Illuminati were meddlesome, yes, but they weren't overtly ambitious.  They simply influenced things from behind the scenes.  That's why Page created MJ12 and left the Illuminati.  He wanted power he could feel.  He wanted to step out of the shadows and rule the world personally.  But the New Illuminati would have JC as a leader.  Again, the "enlightened Despot" idea comes into play.  Although a true Enlightened Despot is a myth, JC seems to be a man with a fairly well-aligned moral compass (well, I guess it all depends on how you play the game).

I think the whole idea of the Greys was in itself a tip of the hat to the secret society aspect of the game.  Conspiracy theorists have a field day with connecting odd events with Illuminati, Freemasons, or the "Men in Black", who of course also have a role in the game, as the combustible agents of Majestic 12.  I thought it was interesting that, even after all this time, the Greys (or clones of the originals, more specifically) were still objects of research (note that Majestic 12 was a real American agency designed to investigate supposed UFO/alien activity).  Same with the "black helicopter" aspect of the game.  Black, seemingly silent/stealthed helicopters went hand in hand with the Men in Black.

I think why they prioritized the augmentation tech over Grey research was that there was really nothing the Greys could tell them about their technology, origins, or disposition toward humanity.  They were merely clones, with no memory or knowledge of their own species.  In essense, if the "real" Greys intended to attack earth, there really wasn't much the "monkeys" could do to help them.  From Page's point of view, the threat of "terrorists" like the NSF and... err... Chad's little band of merry men.  These threats could be addressed, through UNATCO's augmented agents or, in Paris, overtly by MJ12 forces.

Yes, the Helios ending is the "proper" ending, as DX2 continues on assuming JC had merged with Helios.  The debating between the "parlour trick" Morpheus and JC was one of my favourite parts of the game.  Because this is a Dune forum, I should also mention that the Helios ending reminded me very much of Leto II's Golden Path, merging with another force to steer humanity in the right direction.  But how horrible it must have been for JC!

Just out of curiosity, in the Illuminati HQ in Paris - the one with Morpheus - what did you do with the old Illuminatus?[/hide]

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[hide]What's this about Majestic 12? You mean there actually was one, or that people beleive there actually was one -- the DX team didn't just make them up? I suppose that makes sense, it would go with all the other conspiracy-type themes that the game had worked into it.

Yeah, from that point of view -- and the final level being Area 51 -- it makes sense to have the Greys involved. It really does enforce the whole "conspiracy-theory" ambience of the game.

Another storyline twist I liked -- I was happy to find Sandra Renton out in the New West Coast near the Vandenburg gas station. Made me feel nostalgic about all those "good times" back in New York City.

I think the Helios ending has the best outcome as well, even though the Tracer Tong ending is attractive. I suppose its Leto II vs. the Start Over philosophy. Both of which do humanity good.

What did I do with Lucius DeBeers? I did the old man one last favor and I turned off his life support systems. Personally, I don't trust Everett, and the way I see it, if you pick the Illumanti ending, Everett will turn on you and dispose of you the first chance he gets. I felt it would have been smart to deprive Everett of such an important resource as DeBeers. At the same time, I felt bad for him.

I have a question for you, what did you think of the novellas in the game? "Jacob's Shadow" and "The Man Who Was Thursday." Those books appear in almost every level, and the two ideas are recurring motifs.

Also, what enemy you think was the worst? The Greys were spooky and incredibly fast, but I think the worst enemy of the game were those mechanical spiders. Vicious, and if you went pistol like me, hard to kill.[/hide]

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[hide]Yes, Majestic 12, sometimes called "Majic" was/is a real government organization in the United States.  After the Roswell Incident, UFO sightings and whatnot started coming from all over the place.  The government began a project called Project Blue Book to document supposed UFO sightings, debunk hoaxes, explain the explainable, and make note of... erm... the rest.  EVentually, Blue Book was disbanded, and years later was replaced by Majestic 12.

Apparently, MJ12 is a group of military and scientific personell who deal with UFOs, Extraterrestrials, and the like.  MJ12 has always been - and will be for some time, I daresay - a treasure trove of sorts for conspiracy theorists.

Here are some links you might find interesting:

Project Blue Book itself

Blue Book information, history, etc

A decent explanation of what Majestic 12 is (supposedly, I guess)

Various released MJ12 documents

Yes, I liked the Sarah Renton bit near Vandenberg AFB.  That is one of the minor aspects in which you can change the game (i.e. you can let her get killed by the pimp; you can start fights between her and her dad, etc).  Did you give her father a pistol when the drug dealer came along?  I only had my souped up stealth pistol, and there was no way I was giving that away, so I just killed the guy myself.  I don't think I ever found out what happens if you give him a pistol.

I also euthanized DeBeers.  No one should have to live like that, and it was wrong for Everett (thanks, I had forgotten his name, and always got him mixed up with Stanton Dowd) to use him like that.  I played the game using the principles I would use in real life, so I didn't do many underhanded things for easy cash or whatever.  But I never found out what - if anything - that choice had on anything.  If you didn't kill him, would the Illuminati ending have been different, for example?

I haven't plaed the game in some time, so I don't really remember the novellas at all.  What were they about?

I hated the spider bots myself.  I really only used my melee weapon throughout the game.  I also carried a stealth pistol and a sniper rifle as well, shoudl I need either of them.  If there were robots around, usually there'd be a LAW nearby if you looked hard enough, or you could always use a LAM if need be, so I didn't bother keeping a GEP gun or anything.  Too bulky.  But the spiders couldn't be killed with melee weapons without hutring yourself, and you coud waste a lot of bullets on one of them, so they were pretty annoying.

By the way, if you have any saved games in the Paris Cathedral, would you mind copying out a document for me (take a screenshot or whatever)?  There's a small guard room near the cathedral's gold vault.  It had a Woman in Black in it.  On a table there was the WiB's diary entry about Gunther Hermann, how he'd always just sit in the chapel staring at the cross, and so on.  I've been considering writing a short story about that, and I think that caption would make an excellent header.  If you could get a screenshot of that document, I'd be very grateful.  But if you don't have a saved game in the Cathedral, don't worry about it.[/hide]

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[hide]For a while there, a rumour was going around that there was a fourth ending to Deus Ex. You remember how Bob Page says that if you leave him alone, you can "have a slice of the pie"? He even goes so far as to offer Europe to you? Well, this rumour stated that you could leave Area 51 and accept his proposal. Needless to say, i tried many many many times, to no avail.[/hide]

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[hide]That would ahve been pretty interesting, to take the totally 'evil' route like that.  But I think it's safe to say Page was just saying that so JC wouldn't kill him, and would have killed JC at the first change he got once he finally merged with helios.[/hide]

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My favourite game/games changes/change from time to time.

One of the best RTS games of all time was definitely Total Annihilation.

Civilization II could keep me going for hour after hour, month after month.

That's all I got for now.

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Ya I forgot games like Civ II and a couple others.

What I enjoyed doing in Civ II was making sure I had all of asia/Europe/south america and make the 2 enemies get North/South America. Then i would build up and defend my continents and eventually invade north america. ;D

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I swear there are less and less good games being made. It's very much a shame. Perhaps due to the advent and growth of the online community, however, fan-projects will become a larger source of good games.

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Which would be one game out of a few hundred, correct?

So one decent game out of a few hundred doesn't constitute less good games? Ha. Ha.  ::)

Half Life 2 is a joke what with its ridiculous release date shifting. I really couldn't care less about it now. :-

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There have only ever been a few good games made at a time.  We're not doing too badly (Doom 3, halo 2. Dragon Age [a while off, but still]).  Although you're probably right, quality is going down becuase people love games like "The Sims" ::)

"Half Life 2 is a joke what with its ridiculous release date shifting."

Gahh!  Lies!  Valve has only ever given ONE official release date for HL2: September 1, 2004.

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Erm, that's bollocks:

"Despite Valve Software's Doug Lombardi insisting: "The release date is unchanged" when we questioned last week whether Half-Life 2 would hit its original September 30 deadline, GAME has recently told its customers that the title will not arrive until November.

The email notice to customers reads:

"As you may already be aware, the UK release date for 'Half-Life 2' has changed to Nov-2003."

"When Half-Life 2 was announced in late April of this year, it was given the rather firm release date of September 30, 2003. Since then, that hasn't really officially changed." (http://www.planethalflife.com/features/articles/delayeditorial/)

You only have to go to a website like underdogs to see the percentage of quality games  over the years, not to mention that in general far less games were actually made in the past.

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I agree. Somehow all the good games are old games. Red Alert, System Shock, Civilization II, Theme Hospital, Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper II (never played I), and ofcourse all Lucasarts' adventures like Day of the Tentacle, the Monkey Island series, Ful Throttle, Sam & Max Hit the Road...

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