Fiction Comments Go Here

[Dragoon Knight]

I must say, a sequel to FED2k Warlords would bring me back to Fan Fiction.  The basic idea was sound, but the troop counts and techs got a bit too much towards the end.

Don't change too much about it... just sorting something out about the obvious flaws.

[Lord J]

Bump away.

Not this week.  I have senior finals coming up.

[Dante]

I would be open to a revival of old fics. Will leave the planning and implementation to someone else though. Have had enough of trying all the time to no avail.

[Lord J]

The problem with war threads has always been one of control against over-powered troops and posters.  As gamers (the most of us are gamers, after all) we're constantly looking to win.  And we're used to winning.  Therefore, when given a chance to battle one another, we tend to "fight" in such a way that will ensure our own victory.  Actual warfare is, however, much more objective in terms of deaths within a battle.

To guard against over-powered players, we try to control with the forum rules.  Dustie and Sard used the troop count and various other rules to provide more control.  But players still want to win, and they will against overwhelming odds if they can justify it for themselves.  In other words, there is no objectivity, no system that controls the outcome of massive battles (as there is in the various games we play).

Maybe a game moderator position should be established for each war thread who determines battle outcomes without a vested interest in which side wins.  Of course, they would have to be interested enough in the storyline of the thread to know who has the upper hand in a particular situation, and how a given strategy would turn out within a context.

If we ever started over something like Fed2k Warlords or any such war thread, I propose that a mixture of troop counts (with controls, such as one BG hybrid is equal in strength to 1.5 Highlanders) outlined beforehand.  Perhaps a battle moderator could keep track of the troop strengths and techs while the players simply posted strategies and storyline.  Then, to ensure a moderate amount of chaos, the moderator could keep track of battles within a spreadsheet program (imagine a different battle on each workbook, as a scientist-in-training, the idea of all that data is making me rather excited) and introduce random elements and weighted averages.

Or, conversely, we could just battle on the strength of our posts, or decide the outcome of battles via private messages, and ignore any god-modders.

[Dante]

I'm inclined toward the Dungeon Master-like moderator figure, simply because that seems to be the only way to guarantee neutrality. Having said that, having an outside force interfere in a thread has had a profoundly negative impact in the past. Regulating threads as was done in the first Warlords (and attempted to an even greater degree in the ideas for its successor) was a reaction against building up too much and the accompanying overpowering and godmodding. It worked for a while, but in the end was getting silly I guess.

It's true though, whoever has control has to be neutral, and at the same time they have to be involved in the thread. Since people don't often read threads like this unless they take part in them, that either means that we trust a single person or we nominate someone each time neutrality is required. The latter method is safer, the former easier to implement.

As far as Warlords specifically goes, there would firstly need to be a way to control the aquisition of threads. It can be done too easily and too quickly, that was the part most open to abuse (though I did try to be fair last time). A few ideas I had toward this end included limiting the number of threads that could be gained, limiting the power of threads, enforcing a rule whereby warlords could only take unclaimed threads with at least one supporter, making it so that warlords start with multiple threads and that neutral ones cannot be claimed... none of these are suitable. So, that's our first problem.

The second problem is that of troop buildup. Nobody likes troop limits, and since we don't bother keeping count of 'resources' or 'food' or 'gold' or other such things used to keep an army standing, it does seem sensible to directly tie the number of troops that can be fielded with the number (and size?) of threads held. Perhaps instead of steadily recruiting units each post, the thread would only produce a given number of units (determined by a dice program or this DM figure?) before it runs out. I'd also like to see some distinction between simply occupying a thread and garrisoning it or even fortifying it.

Whatever happens though, both statistics and post strength should determine battle outcomes. Focus on one or the other would be a mistake.

*Mutter mutter* Knew I'd never resist planning for long...

[exatreide]

Hmm, I too like the Idea of a GM. I wanted to implement it for a smaller zombie fic but only got one reply in that thread showing interest. Been playing a few pen and paper rpgs at the dead will walk, and like how it goes.

Players post their intentions, and given their stats a GM does a dice roll and uses that number up to wright a result. That way the GM doesn't have a boring job and still gets to participate. If we could implement that into a grand dune2k style fic that would rock. Or even smaller zombie/espionage/whatever fics with individual chars.

[Dante]

I didn't reply to those ideas because in such a fic it would be far too unwieldy. Using stats and a degree of randomness to decide an entire battle is something we could attempt, battles don't happen that often. But if each gunshot had to be determined we wouldn't get anywhere.

Besides which, I'm still sulking after everything here died wretchedly.

[exatreide]

Actully it works quite well in the sense that a entire battle is not determined in a single post but many. And you don't have to do it simply for batles or use dice simply for battles

say....

My char is looking for a weapon in a dark closet. The Gm rolls the dice, the chars perspective atribute,adds any points for scrounging skills, does a bit of math and that determines if you have or have not found a item. If you have found it the GM makes a post about how you found it, if you didn't; he makes a post about how you didn't find it. You really just post your char's intention and the GM decides if action can be completed.

It takes a little getting used to, and it's a bit more gamey that the fan fiction here. But Then again, it seems like the fan fiction here failed and we need to try something different.

[Dante]

No, that's too drawn out for me. Fine for games, but not for writing. If I write that I'm looking in a cupboard for something then either it's there or it's not. Schr

[exatreide]

What I was talking about was for indivdual char's in a ongong thread. The type of thread with one main char for each poster. I didn't mean it like that at all for grand battles or KYA Vs. Setera type of fics

[Lord J]

What I was thinking of was posting a battle in (at least) three different stages:

The Attack, where the attacker posts specific strategy and troop count, and the defender follows with strategy, and the GM posts the outcome of the initial attack.

The Battle; where the attacker decides whether to retreat or not, and the defender decides whether to change strategies, then the GM determines the outcome of those phases, probably up to the end of one of the forces.

And the Conclusion; where each side writes the outcome, what they do, at the end of the battle.

I think that five posts for travel between faction HQs would be a good idea, and the level of force required to take a neutral thread should be related to the size of the thread.  Maybe too the GM could keep track of troop numbers to keep the thread free of troop counts, but the posters would have to post whether a post was troop buildup, movement, battle, or what.

I would love to be a GM in a thread like this, but I won't have any time until summer.

[Dunenewt]

Anyone got any opinions on my ideas in the Fed2k's Duniverse thread? Read my last couple of posts in it.

[applecrow88]

I asked the admin permission to post this link. its a parody against the new series.  I would have posted it here but its written mostly using a mix of deliberate misspellings and leet speak.  just my $0.02.

http://guiding-light.org/dreamersofdune/index.php?showtopic=124&hl=

[Edric O]

If you do not mind me trying to breathe some new life into Fanfic, I have posted Part V (the Late Empire) of my history of the Solsys Universe after a hiatus of over a year. I will finish writing the whole history, no matter how long it takes. :)

Next installment: Part VI - Fall of the American Empire. I'll give you the opening quotes as a teaser in an attempt to attract more readers:

"Freeman and slave, patrician and plebian, lord and serf, guild-master and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes."

- Karl Marx, Old Terran revolutionary socialist, writing in 121 PB (AD 1848)

"Some human historians praise us for the supposed feat of bringing the American Empire to its knees. In truth, we deserve no such credit. At the time when we rose against it, the Empire was a crumbling edifice, a house of cards built upon sand. Its demise was inevitable, and our intervention merely hastened the end. Our role was scarcely more important than that of the nameless assassin in Sarajevo over a thousand years ago who ignited the First Great Terran War. Like him, we cannot be credited for single-handedly ending the old order. But also like him, we cannot be blamed for the countless lives lost when that order finally collapsed into dust. At the time of our war with the American Empire, we were the catalyst of human history; we have never been its helmsman."

- Kybele, "Meditations on Humanity," CSY 1008

[Mihail]

It was very nice to see something new in FanFic - by both Edric and syeline. Keep it up! :) I especially want to know what happens with the American Empire. :)

[Beonid]

No, that's too drawn out for me. Fine for games, but not for writing. If I write that I'm looking in a cupboard for something then either it's there or it's not. Schr

[Dunenewt]

As it seems almost impossible to get anyone to join in a Dune RP, I might start one where people control countries in a modern day setting.  I'd use real life maps of the world, and it could have a lot potential if we get enough people to play.

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

Please do. :)

[Dunenewt]

If a couple more people start posting in the forum overall, I'll start it.

[Beonid]

I'd be interested in a Dune RP (I've learnt my lesson about the one post battles, Newt)  , but I couldn't promise regular posts, since I am overloaded with schoolwork.

[Sneakgab]

I'm on board for pretty much anything. That idea where the battles are carried out in Total war sounds really cool though. I think that it will help the role players become immersed, especially the participants in said battle. After the battle is carried out, the participants can recall the most memorable moments, spiced up with writers' flavor, to the enjoyment of the other role-players. If the era does not match Total war, another game could be used, though Total war would probably be best.

Btw, will be excited to see the next chapter of the ''American Empire''. Definetely some nice work. I suspect that Edrico may be at the most complex part of the story yet though, and the larger amount of direction required might delay it.

[Mihail]

I feel this would be a good time to get things started again. :) I think there is some sort of creativity in the air, or else just late-night lucidity, but I'd really like to see any activity at all here, any small RP or fanfic I'll join. :)

[Mihail]

I was just thinking about the situation in FF, and reading about the Fed2k Duniverse. While it is a good idea, I really doubt we could get anything off the ground simply because of logistics - we wouldn't really have enough people at all to do something on such large a scale as Fed2k's Duniverse. So I propose a smaller RP/fanfic. Be it in a post-apocalyptic setting, or in a war setting, or in some outlandish fantasy world, but it would be good just to get some people's grammar and writing skills out of their rusty, dusty cases. Just throwing ideas around here, though... What do you guy think? :)

p.s.: I just thought that it would be a good idea to take advantage of the burst of activity here to try and kickstart FF back into life. ;) No other forum has such an air of quality about it, both in the length and detail of posts and RPs, as does this one. :)

[Beonid]

I think I would prefer something that isn't based around Dune, since that topic's getting too old for my tastes. I like the idea - only problem is, I don't have as much time as I used to. Also, I am useless at opening posts. So I could post, but not as much others.

[Mihail]

Yes, I'd also like a break from Dune RP's. That may sound wierd, since there has been a more or less two year old break from Factions 2, but I think you know what I mean. :D ;) I'd really like a roleplay in an outlandish fantasy world, but we have to get the opinions of others, you know. :)

Time... well, time isn't that much of an issue, I think. I doubt any RP we start is going to be very fast-paced, so being able to come on here twice or three times a week to post may be good enough. :)