C&C Generals link

[Edric O]

If you can't see the bugs, maybe YOU need glasses.

[DukeLeto]

If you can't see the bugs, maybe YOU need glasses.

Glasses? Huh? And you said I'M losing it. ::)

[Edric O]

Someone's in a bad mood... ::)

[Taqwa11]

Some good points, Sneak. You have much more energy than I do right now--I don't have any desire to go over all your points and talk about each one. However, I read your whole post and found it interesting.

One point I must comment on is this: You spend a lot of time talking about how Generals is derivative of previous games and is not new and creative. Well, as Stephen King says, there are no new stories, there are simply different and interesting ways to tell the same stories over and over again. No, Generals won't be a really innovative story. But the graphics will be an improvement in RTS technology, and the game will feel fresh, at least for awhile. And whether you like C&C isn't important, really. The game should be a big success, and the majority of the great RTS players in the world who like the Westwood/EA type RTS game will probably flock to it, so if you want to be where the action is, Generals will be the name of the game.

[Edric O]

If the sheep flock to a crappy game, that does NOT mean we should follow them! >:(

And Generals is a Blizzard-style RTS, NOT Westwood-style!

[Taqwa11]

The only things really Blizzard style are the interface on the bottom of the screen rather than on the side, and supply depots instead of harvesters--that is, if you want to compare supply depots with gold mines, which is a stretch. Generals won't be an RPG/RTS like Warcraft III, if that's what you mean.

No, I'm not saying we should all flock to Generals. I'm just saying that's where the best RTS players in the world who DON'T care for Blizzard will be. Blizzard, of course, has some incredible RTS diehard players among its fans.

[Taqwa11]

What will be very interesting is to see is how long it takes EA to create Red Alert 3 or a new Tiberium after Generals comes out. Westwood's biggest money maker was RA2, so it DOES make me wonder if Generals might not just be an intended money maker, but also a test for a game planned as the real money maker a year from now. After all, the new SAGE 3D engine looks awesome, but what are EA's ultimate plans for it? In other words, is the C&C name just being used to hype Generals, satisfy the C&C fanbase, and serve as a test, while the REAL DEAL C&C creation is in the bullpen? I don't believe Emperor was a test for Generals because the new SAGE engine wasn't used in Emperor. But Generals, with its brand new SAGE engine might very well be a warmup for the main event. Time will tell. In the meantime, it sure is a blast watching the PC game technology advance. I've read that the 3D graphics in Doom 3 (coming out in 2003) are just going to blow away every game ever made.

[DukeLeto]

Blizzard, of course, has some incredible RTS diehard players among its fans.

Brainwashed wackos would be my word for them. But, ignore this post...

[Fuzi0n]

I've read that the 3D graphics in Doom 3 (coming out in 2003) are just going to blow away every game ever made.

Yep a friend should me some ss's, damn this game is gonna look good.

[Sneakgab]

Woops!, forgot to come back and post part2! that's where the majority of the positive fact's lie

Three things first though:

1:''I don't believe Emperor was a test for Generals because the new SAGE engine wasn't used in Emperor.''

The reason the SAGE engine isn't used for Emperor whereas it is used for Generals, is because Generals, needless to say, came after Emperor, so obviously there's no way the test game can have an engine as good as the real game ie: Generals

2: A big thanks goes to those who read my post, and gave some positive critiscm, namely:

Posted by: Edric O Posted on: September 30, 2002, 15:08:27

''Wow, that's a huge post Sneakgab!

But I completely agree with you. You're 100% right...''

Taqwa:

''some good points, Sneak.''

The latter more so since Taqwa has a differet opinion:), or maybe he's just desperately attempting to garner what little support he possibly can from those who know WW all to well:D

3:Dukeleto, unfortunately Emperor is bugged to hell, iv'e lost twice to extreme bugs where i definetly wouldv'e won had this not happened: Once all my ornithopters and troops simply got stuck to the ground whilst my enemy had his way with my base until i was finished, another time, i was building up many ornis due to the enemies lack of anti-air in his attack group, and they simply just got stuck to the ground and sat there swimming on the rocks like stranded seals... Of course iv'e lost countless games to my refusal to go for simply harvester attacking and make the whole games based on the spice area, if that's the only place with any purpose, then why have even bother having a base or anywhere else lacking spice for that matter? may as well just order units or something and then they get chucked into the nearest spice field to do battle... Anyway getting a little off-topic here:D

Also the problem with pathfinding isn't that you have to watch you're units move or shift move them like you have to do in Starcraft, the problem is that sometimes they simply won't obey you're orders, tell you're Atreides sniper to move and silently kill someone, and you're all right, now tell you're Atreides minotaur to use it's superior range and the fact that it's bullet are of the long-range artillery variety to shoot over a canyon that is easily surpassable to his bullet's due to the fact that he's on a mountain with higher altitude to that of the canyon and he will still attempt to go around the canyon for no reason whatsoever, also simply put, harvesters don't go or do what you tell them to do, almost regardless to what order you issued them

Now with that out of the way...

part2:

However, these alternate ways are of lower income and are not to replace the supply depots. What was i saying:D

These are for use when you can't get to a supply depot or you lost your supply depots to an enemy and are in need of "emergency" funds. The alternates are: The Chinese can hack onto the Internet and obtain funds from international banks; the GLA have a black market where they sell all sorts of goods and services for extra cash; the U.S. have supply drops that would include a heavy cargo plane flying over and 'dropping' resources into the base

Im assuming these other options of income are only available to you when you have no remaining supply depoes, which is rubbish. The chinese method sounds cool but also sounds exactly the same as the US version except with a different graphic and the GLA method is basically just selling you're stuff though the services bit sounds good but unfortunately the services bit probably isn't available in multi-player

more dissapointment and why the hell does the US need to be so damn regular?

10. What is this new way of building buildings?

The building will no longer be constructed on the interface and then placed around the Construction Yard (no Construction Yard really...), instead they will be built on the actual map. Instead of seeing the clock animation on the building's slot you will see it actually build up with scaffold and all. The construction will be done by peon units and you will be able to construct buildings anywhere on the map. However, more construction peons do not mean faster build times. Though you can build more buildings with more construction units.

About time they threw away the method of building where you're buildings magically pop out of the ground... but i wouldn't exactly call it a new method of building buildings...

Also whoever wrote this is awnser is a moron, because obviously several buildings at the same time can sometimes mean faster build times

There will be no Shroud in Generals, for the first time in a C&C game. Instead Generals will use a Fog of War system

They keep on saying ''for the first time in a C&C game'', don't the idiots there know that were not falling for their method of calling Generals a C&C game to make more people buy it?

13. Did I hear correctly? Air-to-Air? Dogfighting?

Yes indeed. Generals will feature dogfighting and aerial combat

Woopee! Empire Earth has Air-to-air and so called dogfighting... the only difference is that they didn't hype to it to kingdom come

14. Flora? Fauna? Environment?

Naturally. Well, we can't really tell you what animals may or may not be in the game. Nor how might those animals act and affect the battlefield. But the fully interactive SAGE engine allows for very nice and realistic flora related effects. For example palm trees swaying in the wind cause by passing helicopters. Many things in the game's environment can be affected and used to your own advantage. For example you can set trees on fire to hurt passing infantry or destroy a tower from a certain angle to have that tower fall on a certain target, perhaps accomplishing a mini objective or acquiring a bonus of some sort.

Once again something i want to hear, iv'e been waiting years for things like putting trees on fire to hurt infantry by them... one thing though: i know how animals are going to affect gameplay, they're not

Ahh...Hmmmm...Argh.... I don't know exactly how to break it to you but there are no engineers in Command & Conquer Generals. Makes since though, since half of their job will be done by the construction peons, which is to repair buildings. As for capturing buildings. The US will use its Rangers to capture building, while the way they do it is not final yet, the designers think of doing it similar to the Red Alert 2 Chrono Legionnaire. The Chinese will have the Hacker unit to take over buildings

No engineers? :( ... farewell to the great engineer and his great history :(:D , but those Americkan rangers and Chinese hackers both sound pretty cool to me, let's just hope that the rangers and hackers are both sneaky...

Generals will have full replay capabilities, save to your heart's content. Great news for all those who plan on whining about getting cheated online or just those that want to gloat over kicking someone's ass. [back to top]

Yup... WW never did care about cheating did they? but atleast now well have replays though

Only if the US uses US Navy Marines instead of US Army Rangers. But... No Generals will not feature marine warfare. Even though the engine is capable of water based units and fights. Much like Tiberian Sun, there will be units able to cross water (by hover or amphibious means), but there will be no navies in Generals.

There is a possibility for marine warfare in an expansion pack, should one come.

F^&* you WW, *pulls a zap at WW* im so sick of being dam well banning naval warfare from their games! they say they want realism, but there aren't any navies! how the hell did they think that combination up!

8. Matchmaking service? WOL, right?

No, Westwood Online will not be used for Generals

Because WW are to cheap to actually host their own server for Generals and now they don't need and more WOL updates, so by Game Spy Arcade, they now have close 0 cost in updating the game and keeping it running

Also, if you need to pay to play Generals online, then how the hell can it be hosted on site seperate to WOL? surely WW cannot rake in revenue from a site they don't even own!

In the Generals iteration of Quick Match a user would be able to fine-tune the search options like finding a player with so many disconnects, with such a ping, etc...

Good up the point that he/she/it says that you can set you're quick match connection to look for players with a certain ping, because that means us poor 56k users will never get to play Generals online thanks to the snobs/d!(k$ DSL users who will refuse to play against 56k users

12. Does the above mean the 8 player limit for multiplayer might, finally, be broken?

That is up to the designers, right now multiplayer is set at 8 players.

Ha! the multiplayer limit for an RTS is only 8 for WW! In Warcraft3 the multiplayer limit is 12... in Empire Earth the multiplayer limit is only 8, but the maps are literally 10 to 15 times the size of WW maps from any game

14. Will we see ye ol' 3 minute rule from Red Alert 2?

No, there will not be a 3 minute rule in C&C Generals.

Rushers ahoy!, the only reason to take out the 3 minute rule is to please players who like to finish matches in 3 minutes which i consider to be rushing...

So to all you rushers, hope you're finally happy

2. What does SAGE stand for?

Well... nothing really. It's just a name. Why all upper case? Who knows, but that is the name, SAGE. Sounds cool, doesn't it?

Lmao... Don't worry WW, the mindless massed won't care about what you're engine is called or how cool the lettering looks when they're busy checking out you're mega hyped up and misleading ads:D

In the Generals iteration of Quick Match a user would be able to fine-tune the search options like finding a player with so many disconnects, with such a ping, etc...

That's good up until the point it says you can fine tune what ping you're connection searches for because this assures that us poor 56k users are never going to be able to play the game since this means that the snobs/(0($ DSL players will never play with the lower end modem users

4. You didn't forget anything in that description, did you?

Why yes we did. Several things actually. The engine's detail is amazing. Cities, terrain, trees and (almost) everything looks amazingly detailed. The only exception are the infantry in the game. Still, civilians in Arabic cities can be seen with Arabic atire and everything. Another thing that is worth to mention is the special effects this engine is able to produce. The beauty of a Daisy Cutter dropping on a GLA base, or a Chinese nuclear missile creating a huge and beautiful mushroom over a GLA base, incinerating everything in it. These effects also include weather effects and day to night real time transitions. The engine also simulates realistic fire and smoke effects as well as shadows based on the day to night transitions. However, the most impressive feature in the engine (at least the writer of this FAQ thinks so) has got to be the water. Certainly the most impressive and most realistic water in any RTS, perhaps in any game. The least impressive feature of the SAGE water is the fact that it can (if you have a GeForce 3 and above card) reflect clouds and everything else that moves over it. The most impressive feature is the feel of the water. What does that mean? That means, imagine how will it feel when a tsunami tidal wave hits you. We've already seen the dam breaking sequence that releases a tidal wave that wipes a whole river side town from the face of the... dry virtual terrain. Destroying everything in it's path, crashing bridges with all the people and vehicles on it, knocking down towers and buildings. They say that a picture is worth a thousand words, how much does a full video sequence worth then? Just go and watch one of many videos of the Blue Eagle demo mission shown at the 2002 E3. [back to top]

Hmmmm.... That's brilliant...

but...

5. Won't all that require a machine similar in performance to Silicon Graphics work stations?

That's the great part. No, it won't. However, to see all the effects the game will have (which is not to say that Generals will use the SAGE engine to it's fullest) you will need a GeForce 3 card or higher equivalent. The graphical effects in the game are scaleable, so don't worry about it. So you won't see cloud reflections in the water if you have an older card, you will see everything that really matters.

Once again highly impressive since GeForce3 to my knowledge is pretty low end, and that's all you need to run Generals with full graphics... of course my knowledge of graphics cards, or any kind of computer cards:D is highly limited

6. What about editing? Modifications? Maps?

EA Pacific are well aware of the need for a strong modding community. They have plans for great support for modding in Generals. The C&C modding community is large and strong, with excellent mods, maps and future promises. However, except for Renegade, there was no support from the developers for this modding community. This time around the developers are going with a different approach - full mod support.

Excellent, according to WW, Generals will have full mod support... unlike other games i could mention, coughWarcraft3cough...

7. Will there be a map editor?

Yes, indeed. A map/campaign editor (called World Builder) which the designers themselves used when creating the maps that will ship with the game will be provided. Which means that map makers and mod makers will be able to do everything the designers themselves did with a little effort. Even create in-game cinematic events and other various triggers. Creating something the likes of the dam breaking scene from the E3 presentation is possible with this editor, but will need much more work than other things you can do with it.

Would somebody please admit that Empire Earth was the first game to let player's make their own in game cinematics and that they're all just jumping on the bandwagon... for christ's sakes... Either than that, it all sounds good, and if you can honestly create something like the dam breaking scene then WW can honestly say they've made a totally new and impressive improvement to map editor, unlike Blizzard

12. Any more info about how much freedom mappers and modders will have using the World Builder?

With the map editor (World Builder), map makers can create their own multiplayer, skirmish, and mission maps (actual standard missions). They will also have access to scripting features and can edit the INI files of the units (stats and abilities) and structures. Mod maps are also done by editing map INI files. In addition mappers/modders can put their own music and sound to the game using scripting. If all goes well, you will also be able to incorporate new textures.

Good...

13. What about the learning curve for these features?

You can expect to have official tutorials from the get go posted on the official site. These should be able to cover all the bases for mappers/modders as well as more advanced features.

As if we really need tutorials:D, but beign serious, this is a nice thing to have for newcomers to map editing but nothing special... I of course made a longer, more interesting and cooler campaighn than the actual campaighn in Starcraft using the Starcraft editor and thus of course require no tutorial

As you cann see there are both positive and negative comments in this reply, as it's intended to be objective

[Taqwa11]

Interesting post, Sneak, especially for those too lazy to go to the FAQ link and read the same stuff for themselves. I do hope you cut and pasted most of that! LOL. Anyhow, thanks for your excellent comments about the FAQs and your contributions to this post.

One comment: I DO know how Westwood/EA does things. It's money. Let me say that one more time: IT'S MONEY. Whatever sells best is top priority, not whether we get the patches and support we want for our poor-selling favorite game.

[Sneakgab]

The info was cut and pasted, so as to be as authentic and objective as possible, well objective in the way that those are WW's words and i haven't played around with them or anything... of it's not objective in the way that the qoute scource is totally and completely one-sides in favour of Generals...

But that's where my reading in between the lines, bull$h!t clearer, statistifier/factifier interpation reading skills come into play:D

Yes, EA's primary concern is money, and so is ours! they're the ones who stuck their heads into the rat-race games business, so now have at em! not even batman will stop us from cutting off this rat's head:D

If at least they admitted that they're just corporate scumbags then i wouldn't be so annoyed

Oh and by the way Emperor didn't sell well because it wasn't given a chance

Here are some on the spot ways of improving Emperors chances:

Stick C&C on the front of the cover and a picture of a guy in cool goggles, yes that'd be misleading but hey that's what they did with Generals right?

Give it some advertising

Take a few hours out to fix obvious and major bugs, needless to say this would not require a lot of time nor a lot of money

If WW are going to corporate scumbags they may as well be good corporate scumbags, the three ways above would at the very least double Emperor's sales without very little additional cost's... i mean games never really get much advertising, the best well advertised game iv'e ever seen has had a few adverts in games mags and even may have had it's own advert, but iv'e only seen a game with it's own advert once, anyway most games at least get reviewed by most game mags and review sites, but Emperor barely even got any reviews, apparently it got half a page or something on the net in CVG's website's hidden archives about 3 months after it's release (by the way im still speaking literally here:D:( )

Anyway, once again i thank Taqwa for his polite means of discussion, his compliments on my posts are like tennis players shakeing after an important match and show the qualities of a gentleman, if only more of you street hobos could as such:D

Anyway Dukeleto doesn't happen to be DukeLeeeto does he? it's unlikely but you never know

With the information given, i hope that some of you will draw some proper conclusion on Generals now that you have some information, wether they be positive or negative

Personally though, i say don't take the risk and just pirate it:D Why spend a lot of a money when you can spend very little

One last thing: Treating speak of pirateing like speak of the devil out of the crucible is foolish, what's the point of a forum without free speech? enough crucible stuff! i will not confess, i will not adhere to corporate scumb... *choke* *choke*... *silence*... the hanging over, the deed done:D

[Taqwa11]

One thing we must all agree on, or we wouldn't be on this forum: We love Emperor, and Westwood/EA did one helluva job in making it. However, as Sneak says, they did a VERY POOR job, nay, PITIFUL job is a better description, in advertising it and supporting it. They totally succeeded in making Emperor. They totally f---ed up in selling it. However, once they f---ed up in selling it, they didn't want to spend any money to perfect it or support it any longer. You just KNOW there was a head of marketing somewhere who said, "If this game doesn't sell X amount of copies, we won't continue to use up valuable resources for it." It is THEIR fault it didn't sell, but once it didn't, no one who knows anything about big business can really blame them for moving on. That makes sense, I hope.

The same thing will happen to Generals, if for some reason it doesn't sell its own goal number of copies. Either way, as I said before, DO NOT pirate copies if you want a game to succeed and be supported; each pirated copy means one less sale toward the goal number of copies required by the company to justify further resources in supporting it, patching it and, ultimately if sales are good enough, making a sequel.

[Taqwa11]

I'm bumping this topic back up because it is a hot topic and has generated a lot of interest.

[Sneakgab]

I must have some kind of justification for buying the real game instead of a pirated game, becuase in my own business, no one who knows anything about business can really blame me for wanting to save my cash and in turn move on

If WW stops supporting a game, I don't care because I still got a game for about 20 rands, a game with a fully functionable single player campaighn, a fully functionable multiplayer campaighn, even if for a short time, and after that a working multiplayer campaighn is still there for 20 rands... and did you know that a 1 dollar is 10 rands? so in other words i get an almost full game for 2 dollars... If no one can see the wisdom in that, then im sorry

[Anathema]

It's not wisdom- everybody could go buy warez, but it's cheap and doesn't inspire companies to release new titles.

[Oper90]

Did you catch the min. requirements that 'Generals' require ... it will knock a bunch of people from playing it -- 1 ghz

[Taqwa11]

Well, that may be true, but anything less than 1 ghz will be almost Jurassic by January when Generals comes out. Less than a year ago, I bought my Alienware 2 ghz comp with a GeForce 3 Ti-500. That was the fastest setup out there at that time. Now the fastest processors are almost at 3 ghz, and the new ATI Radeon 9700 simply blows away even the GeForce 4! I share your concern, my friend. The industry is moving WAY faster than my financial ability to keep up with the latest and greatest in technology.

[exatreide]

guess me and my 550 mgz comp wont be able to play it....shucks...even on lowest settings...

heck my dads 800 wont even be able to...the same thing they did with empp...

[Taqwa11]

Well, I think those requirements are recommendations, right? I mean, an 800 mhz with a really good graphics card ought to at least run the game well on low graphics settings, I would think. Wait and see. Anyhow, there are a lot of people with crappy computers and internet connections playing Emperor right now, and they seem to enjoy it even though they lag the rest of us. Minimum video settings aren't such a big deal in an RTS game as they are in a good FPS, so hopefully anyone who can play Emperor at least at a decent speed will be able to play Generals.

[Sneakgab]

Oh, my goodnes!!! I went to go copy a post I read here, started by some brave soul who was trying to educate the masses who blindly follow WW... and which showed the true stupidity of these masses through their replies... and all of a sudden it's been deleted :O

What a coincedence ;D :) ;) ::) 8) :O :( :'( >:(

[Sneakgab]

Oh yeah and WW make up such bull$h!t... their forums age restriction is 13 unless you have permission from an adult or guardian... well not really seeing as how im 15 and the permission reply from 21 year old big brother... who currently studying aerodynamical engineering is smater than the entire staff of WW put together have still not let me register on the board... oh and my big brother should have written in his reply that the WW staff should kiss his @SS for being considered worthy enough for him to send an email to them:D... anyway, im getting away from the topic here:D The fact that the age restriction for the beta registration is 13 proves that WW couldn't actually give a rat's @$$ about ''tender minds'' especially if it means getting more cash...

Ah and since the post I originally intended to copy here to show how simple the majority of the masses that follow WW really are, I decided to copy this post instead, which get's off topic in the first reply and now appears to have gone into a discussion relating to certain slang and terms:D

br00m

Trainee (newbie)

Member # 1506

Member Rated:

posted October 11, 2002 07:25 AM

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dont get your hopes i mean its fun to wonder what if i got picked but if u hope to much then u dont get in then like ah man that sucks so anyways have fun with test sighn ups

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dont take a computer game to seriously its bad on the mind

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Posts: 90 | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged

Evil Betty

Board Veteran

Member # 500

Member Rated:

posted October 11, 2002 07:34 AM

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beware..

GF is himself check his initials. He is a male prostitute

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C&C Generals Multiplay Tester since 10th October.

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Posts: 2322 | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged

Calsa

Trainee (newbie)

Member # 4863

Member Rated:

posted October 11, 2002 07:37 AM

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" CPU : 4.5 GHz

RAM : 128 or Ram

Vid Card : Pro Savage (Computer store is 17 minuite walk from house, so if not adaquete I will go for a walk)"

Dude I Usualy dont like to down other pople but its imposible to have a 4.5 gig processor. technology isnt there. Did you mean 1.5 gig, or 2.5 Even If you overclocked it you couldnt get the processor up that fast without burning it up first. No mater what kind of heat sink you have. All right Ive spoken my mind.

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Be afraid of what lurks in the Dark

|}ar|{*//*()*|}

Darkmod coming in 2003

-{Calsa}-

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Posts: 20 | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP: Logged

Dazz

Trainee (newbie)

Member # 674

Member Rated:

posted October 11, 2002 07:53 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kravok:

beware..

GF is himself check his initials. He is a male prostitute

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I think you mean Pimp

[Taqwa11]

?

[Sneakgab]

''?''

?

Somehow I feel there may be sa few posts like that to follow these ;D

I simply wanted to display evidence of the average intellect of most of the masses who blindly follow WW

Though the post I originally intended to display would show their stupidity more clearly

[Gobalopper]

Don't go offtopic, this thread is about Generals not Sneakgab. ;)