Empty promises and propaganda

[Edric O]

They said the war in Iraq was about WMD's... yet Saddam used none, not even to save his own life. American propaganda portrayed Saddam as a trigger-happy maniac ready to use chemical and biological weapons on the unsuspecting US population, yet he showed more restraint than most world leaders ever would. I wonder if Bush could witness his country being taken over by an invading army and not launch a single nuke...

Saddam was a ruthless dictator. Not using WMD's even when you've got nothing left to lose is NOT the action of a ruthless dictator. The only logical conclusion is that he never had any to begin with. If he did, then where are they now? The war is over, but the WMD's still haven't been found. US forces are searching all over Iraq for them, and yet they found NOTHING.

Saddam Hussein was presumed guilty, and the sentence was carried out before any evidence had been found. And even now, that evidence STILL hasn't been found. The WMD's were only an excuse to invade Iraq. Now they're trying to use the same excuse on Syria. How long before the world realizes that Bush is on a wild goose chase?

Ah, but they also said the Iraqi people would enjoy a bright future without Saddam... yet all we see is chaos and looting. Iraq has collapsed into anarchy. Honest, hard-working people are losing their life's work to street gangs. Others are losing their lives. A nation is losing its history and infrastructure. Is this Bush's version of freedom and prosperity?

In Mosul, the American "liberators" have raised the US flag over a government building. When the Iraqis protested violently, US soldiers fired at the crowd and KILLED 10 civilians. Is this the liberation Bush promised?

And far away, high government officials of the Coalition countries are dividing the spoils of war between themselves. The Iraqis got their empty promises. The Americans got their propaganda. Now it's time for the warmongers to get their money.

[The_Sadukar]

so it seems.

[Anathema]

Well, we all know that Sadam took his stock of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons to Syria, where he was welcomed by overwhelming crowds because he is so loved there. He also took his Al Quada buddies with him, his most trusted friends.

End sarcasm.

[DukeLeto]

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all,

it's the leaders of the country who determine policy,

and it's always a simple matter to drag the people

along whether it's a democracy, a fascist

dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist

dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always

be brought to the bidding of their leaders. That is

easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being

attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of

patriotism, and exposing the country to greater

danger."

-Hermann Goering

[Birdfolly]

Well said Edric

[lowzeewee]

*Lowzeewee gives a standing ovation to Edric* :D

[Dante]

*Dust Scout looks cynically at Lowzeewee clapping on his own, then smiles and joins in.*

[lowzeewee]

*Lowzeewee takes an anti-bush poster and signs on it for a petition ;)*

[Dante]

*Dust Scout steals the poster and puts it on a dartboard, along with Bush's face.*

Ok, this is getting silly. ::)

[quoudam72]

Although I agree with you on cetain points Edric but what about Russia and France selling arms to these guys and the German engineers being responsible for building the underground complexs for the former Iraqi regime (bunkers?). Do not just talk about the nervous Americans but the two-faced Russians, the French pigs and the sneaky Germans atleast make it fair. ;)

[Gobalopper]

The US has been saying since August of last year that Iraq might have been moving weapons to Syria so its no surprise to see them saying it now too. Saddam wasn't stupid he isn't going to leave the weapons right out in the open and the US is going to need the help of Iraqi's to find out where they are located.

Iraq has not collapsed into anarchy, most of the looting has been to government buildings which is expected considering what Saddam has done to his people. There isn't a full police force installed yet so there are going to be problems until it can regain its strength. Did you really expect Iraq to become a paradise overnight?

It takes time to change a country, how can you pass judgement on the outcome less then a month after the war started?

[Navaros]

any country that has oil which the USA can pillage and take for itself with Illegal Wars is part of the "Axis of Evil" and supports terrorism ::)

[Edric O]

Yeah, Iraq might have been moving weapons to Syria. And they probably hid them in Iran, which shipped them secretly to North Korea, from where they somehow got to Lybia... ::)

Ever heard of the phrase "PRESUMED INNOCENT"? Since when do you execute people because you *suspect* they *might* be guilty? Until I see EVIDENCE, I will presume them all to be innocent, as common sense dictates. End of story.

[Acriku]

It's impossible to tell whether or not Saddam had weapons during the war currently, but hopefully we will find out this year or next.

This supposed evidence should be brought to light by Bush's administration.

[Navaros]

Yeah, Iraq might have been moving weapons to Syria. And they probably hid them in Iran, which shipped them secretly to North Korea, from where they somehow got to Lybia... ::)

nope, not North Korea, because North Korea can actually give the USA a mad-crazy whupping before going down, therefore they couldn't possibly have any WMDs. other than that, yes your logic is quite good.

[lowzeewee]

any country that has oil which the USA can pillage and take for itself with Illegal Wars is part of the "Axis of Evil" and supports terrorism ::)

Cheney and his friends are already getting the contracts for the Iraqi Oil

[Gobalopper]

Edric the UN knew that Saddam had weapons already. The problem was he never provided credible evidence of getting rid of them or stopping his research into new weapons. So its already known that he has them, the job now is to find out where they went.

[SurlyPIG]

Keep in mind that, although UN inspections were all but impotent, there was a slight chance that sheer idiocy and luck could reveal illegal weapons. Saddam had oodles of time to disguise his weapons, shelve them in civillian homes in tiny villages, bury them under schools like the 'pesticides' found next to artillery shells, rockets, and heavy weapons ammunition.

EDIT : oops, I forgot my point...

I think the reason Iraq didn't use weapons is because they were buried so deeply and based on reports after the first night of bombing of his main palace, Saddam was being carted away in a stretcher with an oxygen mask over his face, with guards all around shoving people away so as not to see. This was reported by several people. And every military analyst has said that there does not appear to be any discernable strategy or leadership to Hussein's war...

In short, 2 + 2 = 4

[Egeides]

I think Iraq was gaining absolutely no advantage by using its bio-chemical stuff.

But who sent them these pesticides, exactly under the name of "pesticides" or "agricultural help"? Well there is a country these years that sends ridiculous amounts of "agricultural help" to Isra

[Gobalopper]

We talked about this in the Iraq issues thread, around 13 I think it was, and it has nothing to do with Bush who is president today and making the decision to go to war. Just because the US sold dual-use weapons to Iraq does not mean they shouldn't disarm him now, even the UN agreed that Saddam shouldn't have the weapons anymore. It also wasn't just the US selling Iraq dual-use weapons. Countries like France, Russia, and Germany sold a lot more to Iraq then the US ever did.

[Miles]

They said the war in Iraq was about WMD's... yet Saddam used none, not even to save his own life. American propaganda portrayed Saddam as a trigger-happy maniac ready to use chemical and biological weapons on the unsuspecting US population, yet he showed more restraint than most world leaders ever would. I wonder if Bush could witness his country being taken over by an invading army and not launch a single nuke...

Saddam was a ruthless dictator. Not using WMD's even when you've got nothing left to lose is NOT the action of a ruthless dictator. The only logical conclusion is that he never had any to begin with. If he did, then where are they now? The war is over, but the WMD's still haven't been found. US forces are searching all over Iraq for them, and yet they found NOTHING.

Why is it Edric that every time I post a response to this idiotic logic that you ignore it then post it again on another thread? I'll repeat it again.

MARTYRDOM! MARTYRDOM! MARTYRDOM!

Hopefully you will respond this time instead of hiding in another thread.

Saddam Hussein was presumed guilty, and the sentence was carried out before any evidence had been found. And even now, that evidence STILL hasn't been found. The WMD's were only an excuse to invade Iraq. Now they're trying to use the same excuse on Syria. How long before the world realizes that Bush is on a wild goose chase?

He was convicted on the fact that he did NOT show the world that he had destroyed them. That was his charge in resolution 1441, and he did not live up to it. Were we honestly to believe him on his word? And do you still believe that he destroyed them on his own? Saddam is not stupid though, and I believe that he either buried them in extremely difficult places to find, or moved them to another country just so he could play anti-american fools like you.

Ah, but they also said the Iraqi people would enjoy a bright future without Saddam... yet all we see is chaos and looting. Iraq has collapsed into anarchy. Honest, hard-working people are losing their life's work to street gangs. Others are losing their lives. A nation is losing its history and infrastructure. Is this Bush's version of freedom and prosperity?

The Chaos and looting is beginning to subside, and efforts are now being made to organize an Iraqi government. This takes time, and the Iraqis will live better when it is all said and done.

In Mosul, the American "liberators" have raised the US flag over a government building. When the Iraqis protested violently, US soldiers fired at the crowd and KILLED 10 civilians. Is this the liberation Bush promised?

Raising the American flag was a public relations mistake, but the soldiers were fired upon from that crowd. They have the right to defend themselves.

And far away, high government officials of the Coalition countries are dividing the spoils of war between themselves. The Iraqis got their empty promises. The Americans got their propaganda. Now it's time for the warmongers to get their money.

There has not been enought time for those promises to be fulfilled, although it is evident that steps are being taken to fulfill them, although, you, blind in your fanaticism either fail to see them, or ignore them.

[Anathema]

If Sadam wanted to become a martyr, Israel would have a population of 5 by now because he'd have launched all his MDW (assuming he has them). But he didn't do that because he knew that the US wouldn't hesitate to invade Baghdad if he did that. So we can say that Sadam could be a martyr but has no MDW, or that Sadam has MDW but cares to much for his own life to be a martyr.

[Miles]

If Sadam wanted to become a martyr, Israel would have a population of 5 by now because he'd have launched all his MDW (assuming he has them). But he didn't do that because he knew that the US wouldn't hesitate to invade Baghdad if he did that. So we can say that Sadam could be a martyr but has no MDW, or that Sadam has MDW but cares to much for his own life to be a martyr.

You see, this is why I wish you people would reply the first time. I do not want to type it out again, but will in the hope that this time it will be responded to.

Saddam Hussein wanted to see himself as the leader of the Arab world. Not just the terrorist factions. He enjoyed some success in this status after Gulf War I as he was seen as the man who stood up the the US and survived. This is also one reason that he began making it publically shown that he was a practicing muslim. This status, I think, was what drove him since it would gain him much power.

Before the war, though, he chose to play the victim to the world, attempting to win the propoganda war to show the US as an unprovoked aggressor. In this, he could again acheive the standing of a man, wrongly accused, but willing to stand up for his country. (I remind you that this is his propoganda).

If he survived the war, then he would become a living hero, even in defeat and, I think, hoped to regain some semblance of power somewhere, or maybe to escape with his stashed riches and leave his name to be remembered as heroic to the Arab world, If he did not survive, then this would still occur, and his legacy would be ensured.

ANY use of WMD would change this heroic standing to that of the villain, since most Arabs condemned the use of them except to the fanatical terrorist groups. It would also legitamize the US action, and destroy his status as the victim. This would destroy ANY hope for international support as well as destroying his name. I think, that being remembered as a villain is worse to Saddam Hussein than death.

[Davidu]

If he didn't use those those weapons that means he didn't have those weapons.

He was mad enough to put his pictures everywhere, to build huge palaces while the people starved, but was he sane enough not to use the WMD against the invading troops? No! He was a madman... so if he had those WMD he would have used them.

[sneezer3]

If he didn't use those those weapons that means he didn't have those weapons.

Bad logic. Then since i can't see you, you must not exist.

He might be planing to still. or not had enough time to dig'em up. who knows. Maybe he still has some with him. Time will tell.