Oh my God

[Dante]

yes i do live in israel!!!!! and if i werent 13 i wud have go there with 2 uzi's and kill some of them!!! why uzi coz it is an israeli weapon ;D so i hope we win

This is sickning, you are sick

Forgive the bluntness, but, "You named yourself on this site as part of the most ruthless, infamous fighting force in the Duniverse, the Sarduakar, are they sick? Let GoldEagle have his opinion, everyone deserves one.

[The_Sadukar]

and let me have mine, and the Sardaukars followed sick orders, they were NOT sick on their own iniative.

[Anathema]

Emprworm, do you honestly think the Palestinians would stand a chance against Israel? If it weren't for the UN Israel would wipe out the Palestinians- they are the ones with the big guns you know.

[quoudam72]

Emprwrm, how can the sitution be resolved if it is an internal affair that needs to be left internal that makes no sense. What should happen is that Palestine should be allowed to become their own state. The Arabs- peoples who inhabited Palestine were tentants of the land (I will not discuss who was their first it is beyond that at this point) during the rule Of the Ottoman Empire.

Israel has the right to defend themselves (as does any threatened country) but their defense comes from the fact they are 'systematically' destroying the infastructure of the Palestinian people. What does Israel expect the Arab-Palestinians to if they have no other home than where they leave the land they now inhabit?

[Nyarlathotep]

Ehhrr... where did this turn from a "Prins Claus" topic, to a discussion about Isreal and the Palastinians ?

[The_Sadukar]

by the will of Gob or Muad'dib, maybe

[quoudam72]

Whenever you have a vague topic like "Oh My God" (no offense to the author) the subject matter can usually change several times. To answer the question between replies 21-29 is when the subject matter changed to the Israel and Palestine Conflict.

[emprworm]

Emprwrm, how can the sitution be resolved if it is an internal affair that needs to be left internal that makes no sense. What should happen is that Palestine should be allowed to become their own state. The Arabs- peoples who inhabited Palestine were tentants of the land (I will not discuss who was their first it is beyond that at this point) during the rule Of the Ottoman Empire.

Israel has the right to defend themselves (as does any threatened country) but their defense comes from the fact they are 'systematically' destroying the infastructure of the Palestinian people. What does Israel expect the Arab-Palestinians to if they have no other home than where they leave the land they now inhabit?

Quondam72: you are really missing the boat here. No offense, cuz i think you are a good debator. You use the argument that the palestinians were there first. i use your same argument to say the Jews were there long before the Palestinians. How did the Jews lose the land? Through conquest. Kingdoms rise and fall through history. You with me? Ok. Now follow this logic:

Europeans conquer native american people to expand Great Britain. The Spanish, French, you name it- they all want a piece of america. They conquer. Now, 200 years later, should all the indigenous people of South America demand that the spanish descendents leave? Lol! Of course not. How about the Aboriginees of Australia demand that all the white australians pack up and leave? ha! Wont happen. They were conquered. They lost the land. Let history rest. You still with me? Ok.

Now, in America, all the europeans who were living under British rule one day decided they didnt want to live under british rule anymore. They revolt. They succeeded and declare a new country. What if they failed? Well then too bad, they lose the land. If you revolt and fail, then you no longer own the land, plain and simple. How many revolutions have occurred in the last 100 years in this world?

India after Ghandi rose up and revolted against the British and drove out British rule. Yet how many British people lived in India? It was their home. Many grew up there and lived there for their whole lives. Yet India was successful in their revolt. They win. They get the land back. Thats just how it goes.

We have a massive revolution in Romania just 13 years ago. Would it have been anyones business to interferre with that? Let Edric tell you all about the revolution in his country.

There are revolutions all over the world taking place periodically even still today. We should not interferre with them. And neither should we interferre with the revolution attempting to occur in Israel. It is no different than India or any other revolution. Jews living under Palestinian rule (americans living under british rule). Jews decide to revolt (americans decide to revolt). Jews fight for independence (americans fight for independence). Jews re-create the country of Israel (americans create the country of the United States). Palestinians resist (british resist). Palestinians go to all out clash with Jews (americans go to all out clash with the british).

Now we see who wins. It is not your business. Many revolutions happen all the time. The Jew/Palestinian is no different. Deal with it, it happens.

[Anathema]

First, you give the jews a bunch of tanks and weapons, and decades later you say they have to fight it out by themselves without our interference? That's ridiculous.

You are also suggesting the only right is the right of the strongest- if a country were to enslave a minority, you say "then the minority should revolt, we shouldn't intervene". Meanwhile you do support the attack on Iraq because you pity the Iraqi people.

[Acriku]

I don't think we should be putting actions from different people on empr or anyone else. He is not speaking for America, nor are America's ways speaking for him.

[quoudam72]

No, offense taken Emprwrm but read my reply (#128) again.

I said "I will not discuss who was their first it is beyond that at this point." Your logic is correct based apon the events that you presented for your arguement. I know and understand the 'see-saw' of the conquers and the conquered. That was not my point of view in which the source of my words come, it is yours.

I pointed out that the Palestinians (under the Ottoman's empire before the British came to rule the land) were 'tentants of the land of Palestine'. The British promised the Arabs (living in {Palestine) independence in return for their help against the Ottoman Turks.

The British also entered into the secret Sykes-Picot agreement with their allies, the French (and originally with Czarist Russia as well), dividing the same areas that the Arabs thought were to be independent into British and French spheres of influence. These agreements indisputedly were designed to create or reinforce British alliances against the Ottoman Empire, which was allied with Germany. Finally, however, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration proclaiming that "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status of Jews in any other country.

The third agreement (Balfour Declaration) which, in addition to its obvious internal conflict between the rights of "the Jewish people" and "the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine," also was in conflict with Britain's other two secret agreements (Sykes-Picot agreement and the agreement made to the Arabs for their help against the Ottoman Empire).

I know and understand the discussion has taken a different turn but I needed to be better understood.

[guusr5644]

Ehhrr... where did this turn from a "Prins Claus" topic, to a discussion about Isreal and the Palastinians ?

thats be coz of me ;D all i sad with no piece of brain was: "ariel sharon shell rule yea baby yea ;D ;D ;D"

not much ha? the ppl here started a flame war coz of me (not my folt)i only said tiny thing...

[Nyarlathotep]

Ehhrr... where did this turn from a "Prins Claus" topic, to a discussion about Isreal and the Palastinians ?

whats be coz of me ;D all i sad with no piece of brain was: "ariel sharon shell rule yea baby yea ;D ;D ;D"

not much ha? the ppl here started a flame war coz of me (not my folt)i only said tiny thing...

I get it, thanks.

IMHO you people can argue till the end of time, but as far as I can see things, this discussion (as so many) is never going to end. I think as long as the Isrealies and Palastinians are going to stick to violence (no matter what kind), this situation will never end.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

And suddenly the violence grows out too big, so both sides go kaboom.

:)

Do you think other Arabian countries will disturb the war, it would be a easy looking chance for them to capture the two fighting countries.

Either way, if they do that, America will surely meddle themselves in the fighting. "Like" always...

[Inoculator9]

Americans will always interfere, we consider ourselves to be the global peacekeepers.

[Acriku]

Yeah, we never should have gotten rid of the Taliban, stupid us trying to make the world peaceful...

[Inoculator9]

I think we did a satisfactory job with the Taliban, but we expected to much.

[Repoman]

If you live in israel, i'd be moving out of their as quick as possible who you are about to die. It won't be the americans that will cop it if america attacks.

Here is what is going to happen. America is going to clean up iraq. iraq is going to take as many isralis with it . Then in the ruins of israel arabs will take back their land. The americans will then go back in and take israel cuz lets be honest israel and america are on the same side. The arabs will unit and we are going to see the americans have to withdraw due to public opinion in america. The only place to live in the future will be europe as america will have to withdraw all forces back to america to stop deaths to their soldiers. Even australia is going to cop it and why?

Because of damn religion. Unless we think our through these problems this is what will happen.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Europe is getting worser with the day, And I know it. They are trying to be America, worse, they even kiss up to them.

[nampigai]

uhm no they aren't, some country's are willing to help the US out in a possible war with Iraq and are also helping in Afghanistan, but I don't see that makes them kiss ups.

If you are implying to the EU then think of what it have done for Europe until now, it has integratet France and Germany into each other with trade and policy wich have helped stabilising and keep peace in Europe. We haven't seen a major war in 50 years wich is a long time in European standards.

Yes the EU have some major flaws but if each country would be willing to put aside their own nationalistic interest and try to build a real union were people are votet in for what they stand for not what country they are from then I believe we would have a stronger Europewith more influence.

[Anathema]

If you're talking about Blair who's kissing up to Bush, then I'd like to remind you that there are more countries in Europe then England, and Blair doesn't represent all of them ::).

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Integrated who and what? By who?

Do you actually live in Europe? If so, you don't seem to watch the enviroment of the people nowadays.

Democracy is slowly turning into a republic.

[nampigai]

yes I live in Europe

France and Germany is integrated through various trading treaties and the EU otherwise IMHO I would believe they would have kept fighting against each others.

what do you mean about the envirement? the EU are helping the former soviet countries to become less polluting. also they help stabilising the economy. no devaluation are allowed.

I know EU have flaws and that it isn't perfect but if you have an alternative please share.

[Anathema]

NaMpIgAi I thought you were American...o well.

Heard about France? They predict to have a budgetary deficit yet aren't planning on doing anything about it- and thus violate EU agreements.

[nampigai]

as I said EU are full of flaws wich hopefully will be straitend out in the near future.

I'm hoping for the removal of the "council of ministres"(sp?), I think that the Parliament should have more power as they are the only people in EU directly voted in, this will make it more democratic IMO.