Oh my God

[emprworm]

you can't just say well you conquered this land from us but now we want it back, that would change some boarders around the world, ie. the american continent.

yes you can. China is occupying Tibet. Are we supposed to just let that happen? Palestine is occupying Israel. You cite that Europeans are occupying America. However, keep in mind 2 things:

1) The native americans never claimed that they owned any land (in fact, their religious beliefs explicitly forbids land ownership)

2) They voiced their anger at the occupation and were given vast areas of land by the US government (reservations), so its not like they have no land- unlike the Jews.

Furthermore, if all the native americans were to band together and demand that their reservations withdraw from the US and become a seperate country, I think we should consider that. HOwever, they are perfectly OK with reservations as part of the US. I never heard of any requests for independence. Again, unlike Israel.

[nampigai]

then the protestants should also leave northern Ireland yes?

[emprworm]

i do not know anything about what is going on in Ireland so I cannot comment on it.

But the Chinese should leave Tibet. Do you disagree with that?

If so, why?

[nampigai]

I agree that china should leave tibet yes, but I don't see that it is comparable to the current situation in Israel.

I can't see how you could just relocate people who have lived in a country and say it's only fair that some other get that area, No matter what ancient history holds, I see Israel as the occupieng force.

[emprworm]

I can't see how you could just relocate people who have lived in a country and say it's only fair that some other get that area,

then your reasoning contradicts itself. thousands of chinese people are living in Tibet- some have lived there now their whole lives. Yet they should still leave. The world recognizes that the Tibetan culture is a valid culture of people that should be allowed to preserve themselves in their own land.

The Jews are a valid culture. They should be allowed to preserve themsleves in their own land. but wait, they HAVE NO LAND because Muslims under Muhammad took their land by force. History shows us that has been their land for thousands of years! The world has recognized it, and the world has agreed to it. The occupying force are the Muslims who should get out.

[nampigai]

But that's hundred of years ago, history changes cultures and empires raises and falls. I can't see their right to have this country then Denmark should have all it's lost terretories back again.

and palestinian aren't just moslems they are christian too.

[emprworm]

hundreds of years ago is irrelevant. the race of people remains. Jews have always lived in Israel even under Islamic occupation. Ever hear of a revolution? Civil war? The Jews already in Israel decided to revolt and rise up and re-claim their land. If you are going to use time in history as an excuse to say that a conqueror who conquers an area of land should be allowed to keep that land, then you should also agree that if those same conquered people RISE UP and RETAKE THE LAND by FORCE, then it should become theirs again. And what is Israel doing? IT IS RETAKING THE LAND BY FORCE!! The exact same way it was taken from them. if you are going to allow for Muslims to take the Jews land by force, then you have absolutely no right to speak when the Jews RETAKE their land by force. You have no argument whatsoever.

[quoudam72]

China is occupying Tibet. Are we supposed to just let that happen?

I have heard you say that before but Tibet is a part of China for only about 700 hundred years. Tibetans immigrated to Tibet several thousand years ago from other part of China? From the recent archeology findings, there were wide spread settlements all over China, including Tibet, over 6,000 years ago. When the Red Army entered Tibet in 1951, they also recovered other part of China (Chinese army invaded China????). Do you know that before 1951, the feudal lords in Tibet who constituted only five percent of the population possessed 95 percent of the means of production. Do you know that Buddhism was brought into Tibet from China Proper before being developed into the current state? Now do not get me wrong but their are Human Right issues in the matter but can we get certain facts correct about Tibet?

[emprworm]

Muslims: take Israel by force. Jews driven out because they could not withstand the Muslims.

NaMpIgAi: says this is ok. History is full of conquerors and full of revolutions. America was conquered. Europeans in America revolted from the British, etc. Since Muhammads conquest was successful it became their land. Since the Jews resistance was unsussessful they lost their land. This is just history.

Emprworm: Ok, fine. I'll accept that.

Israel: Regains its resolve. Jews in Israel rise up and revolt against palestine. They do exactly the same thing that was done to them. Their revolt is successful . The Palestinian resistance was unsuccessful . The palestinians lost their land. This is just history.

NaMpIgAi: I cannot accept that.

emprworm: What do you mean you cannot accept that? You mean you can accept Muslims conquering Israel, and an American revolution, and thousands of other occupations/revolutions in history, but you do not accept one single Jewish revolution?

NaMpIgAi: uh, yea.

Emprworms Final Judgment: NaMpIgAi contradicts himself and his argument crumbles to the ground.

[nampigai]

ok so if we would let this go on the Basque seperatists aren't terrorists they are simply claiming their own land, so is IRA, I guess it's a vicous circle that would continue in infity.

The Palestinian lived there several hundred of years and then suddenly the rest of the world decides that now they should all be relocated. I'm sorry but I just can't see this justified in anyway. I don't see this as an revolt I see it as ethnical removal.

[guusr5644]

ok 1 question who the fuck here hate israel (jews)??? oh seems like all pointing at: NaMpIgAi how can that be?? do you want to tell me something that jew ppl has ever done to you? >:( or you just a muslemi ::)

[emprworm]

I don't see this as an revolt I see it as ethnical removal.

whatever kind of politically correct 'spin' you put on it fine. I'm sure the Jews thought of their occupation as 'ethnical removal' also. Big deal. Call it whatever you want. They were successful. They did to the Muslims what the Muslims did to them. That *is* history. They now own the land. Why do they own it? BECAUSE THEY TOOK IT BY FORCE AND WON.

So you cannot say they should leave since its now there's. If you say Israel should leave, then so should Americans and protestants in Ireland.

[nampigai]

I don't hate jews so stop putting words in my mouth, in this country event the jews are against what Israel is doing.

and no I'm not a moslem, why? do you hate them?

and yes emprworm the Israeli is revolting but with back up from most of the western world.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

I hate both the Palestine and Israel presidents.

:-X

[guusr5644]

im with emperworm side

[emprworm]

and yes emprworm the Israeli is revolting but with back up from most of the western world.

which makes even more viable.

throughout history, people that conquer or revolt and have outside help usually win. And history tells us that those people now own the land and they shouldnt leave.

If Israel is successful in their revolt, then so be it. Revolution is part of history. Get used to it. They happen.

[guusr5644]

I hate both the Palestine and Israel presidents.

:-X

come on... get a brain israel dosent have president so dont say things witch you dont know >:(

[nampigai]

where in my posts did I say that the Israeli should leave? I just say that the palestinian shouldn't be removed.

if we look at Balkan we will see that they have just had a civilwar were Milososvic was killing the Moslems so would you aprove of this? afterall the christian's were there first?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

You are the one who need to get a brain, if you don't watch your spelling.

And refresh my mind, so how do you call sharon? A king? Emperor?

As for Israel and Palestine; Let them fight, sooner or later they will be destroyed by their own aggression.

[nampigai]

and yes emprworm the Israeli is revolting but with back up from most of the western world.

If Israel is successful in their revolt, then so be it. Revolution is part of history. Get used to it. They happen.

Then if Taleban took over Afghanistan I should just get over it? And aren't the Palestinian revolting against the Israeli.

*NOTE I do not support any form of terrorism

[guusr5644]

sardauker go and fuck your self ok little lost kid? and btw sharon is a premier

[Sardauker-Kirov]

*Cough* Very nice and childish insult.

And no thanks, I don't pull myself off everyday like you are doing.

And if you don't mind, I'm going back to the topic.

[guusr5644]

*Cough* Very nice and childish insult.

And no thanks, I don't pull myself off everyday like you are doing.

And if you don't mind, I'm going back to the topic.

i have no reason to fight with you so plz save your toughs to your self ok???

[quoudam72]

>:( Excuse me GoldEagle and SardaukerKirov!!! If this is going to turn into a fuck you, no fuck you posting then I suggest both of you IM each other to finish the conversation.

[Dunenewt]

Royalty get paid toom much aswell. All that money just to be on Stamps and Coins!