quoudam72 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 What is your point the Jews did not see Jesus as a "son of god" or "Messiah" either and they were his brethen. And even in the bible there are times when Jesus himself says that "we are all sons of God". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardauker-Kirov Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 So we all are messiah's... Cool :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 No Kirov, it means we all have a deep connection with God. And Christianity is a branch from Judaism, but differentiated to a point where they have total differences. And Kirov, Christianity can be just as violent as any other, cough crusades cough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 "do not think it is a little "convenient" that the Bible is as metaphorical as it is"Well... people used to belive in the funny little creation stories literally, and all that, but the modern christian faith wants to appeal to a world introduces to science (Religion must evolve to survive from the Dune/Christianity thread). So they started to disregard the inconvenient bits, saying they're not to be taken literally. But thae fact that religion (christianity at least) has changed (and will continue to change) to fit modern beliefs helps prove its falsehood."If you die for Allah you will enter the heaven's"Same in christianity: martyrs and saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 Crusades! For the first Crusade Pope Urban the Second said anyone who died while liberating the Holy Land from the "infidels" would go right to heaven, same princiapl with Jihad. I think Islam is goign through a shake down period, sort of like Christianity and the Middle Ages was a shake down period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 So Christianity is just as violent as Islamic religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardauker-Kirov Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Not in these days, Except for some other Christian Extrememist's groups maybe. Almost all Islam are Rebelious like hell to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 These days are no different than the others, people are still killing each other in the name of their God or religion, just because there maybe less people dying today doesn't mean it is any less violent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Ah, the Crusades... Please tell me when are you gonna stop holding Christians responsible for those. It's been 800 years and the Crusades go against everything Jesus tought us. Obviously they were the "creations" of corrupt Popes and kings. And since when are atheists oh-so-peaceful? The fact that atheism doesn't have a god doesn't stop atheists from killing in the name of anything else, does it? Most notably their country. And like I said before, claiming that you're not guilty for the crimes of other atheists is hypocrisy if you claim that WE are guilty for crimes commited by our ancestors.Christianity is about as anti-violent as any religion or non-religion can get. But if people WANT to kill, any excuse will do.Evilbaron:Yes, SOME biblical prophets did kill for God. But when they weren't carrying out a direct command from God, they were sinning. People are not flawless and the Bible is not afraid to show that even holy persons sin.Acriku:1. I dunno ;)If you look at it, the vast majority of Bible verses ARE concrete. The Old Testament is made up mosty of objective descriptions of certain events, or the lives of certain people. The New Testament... well, you know very well that Jesus did use metaphores a lot, but their meaning is simple and obvious. And when it isn't, He explains it Himself. Now why did he use metaphores? Because they appeal to people more than cold facts.Other than that, the only heavily metaphorical parts are Genesis and Revelation (for obvious reasons - it would be very hard to explain them in concrete terms to primitive people).Nema:I'm not saying that Christianity doesn't change (notice, however, that the changes are minimal), but I am saying that IT SHOULDN'T. The way that religion tries to fit science seems ridiculous to me. Science evolves faster than anything! Trying to fit with today's science is pointless, since it will be considered an old fairy tale tomorrow! Chances are that most of our science is incomplete at best or totally wrong at worst. Even scientists admit that! They're just doing their best, but all our knowledge is still a drop in the ocean.The truth does not change. But our understanding of it does. Genesis is more than a simple story. Out of the entire Bible, Creation is the hardest to interpret. but as we discover more we will get closer to the true interpretation.Do you know what martyrs are, Nema? DO YOU? They died from persecution, because they dared stand up for Jesus. You can hardly compare them with the heroes of Jihad...You talk and talk of Crusades, but what about the major role that Christianity played in uniting the tiny barbarian kingdoms into nation-states? WHAT ABOUT THE BATTLE OF POITIERS?? What about the fact that after the fall of Rome, monks were the only ones that saved the art of writing?Show me ONE beneficial effect of atheism in history! Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsulSK Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 > Show me ONE beneficial effect of atheism in history! > Well? Show me ONE beneficial effect of religion in history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Also, barbarians are not at all hairy muscular maniacs with a killing instinct and no education, they are just "foreign" people. They were associated with the Huns and Germans, who were basically muscular big killing people, and thus the misinterpretation of barbarians being that. And yes, monks were the only ones allowed to learn to write, and write they did! When everyone actually had a chance to learn something, from the new-found Greek/Roman literature and art, etc, they jumped at the chance! (with hesitation of conflicting religions of course) Thus, people were not stupid, only deprived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 "but I am saying that IT SHOULDN'T"Er... you mean you should be jewish?"Show me ONE beneficial effect of atheism in history"Atheism hasn't had much of a chance, because the religious tend to be in power in the past or in less developed countries by dint of the mafia-like effect of being a religious leader. But anyway, atheism would help end division and jihaddery and things like Northern Ireland and the WTC bombing..."what about the major role that Christianity played in uniting the tiny barbarian kingdoms into nation-states? "Naton states with bigger armies who could kill more people and find new ways of massacring.... Yes. What about the effect of religion in creating large groups of people who are hell-bent on proving that their religion is better by slaughtering the other side? What about the use of religion as license to discriminate, torture, murder and destroy? Plus this (effects of religion on history) is a bad place to fight, Edric.If religion is foud to cause more war than peace, then religion can be disproved because god's following must be evil, and god is therfore evil, which is a contradiction, therefore religion is false.If it is proven to be good, that is not in itself proof that there is a god. Therfore, loses nothing logically. For no matter how nice religion can be, if there is no god, thenthere is no god; religion is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobdouds Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 How is God all powerful?If God is all Powerful, can he create something more powerful than himself. If he can, he is not all powerful as it is possible to be more powerful.If he can't, than he is not all powerful as there is something he can't do.Therefore. It is impossible to be Omnipotent without not bean Omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardauker-Kirov Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Well, Alot of people thinks they can make people believe in their god by forcing and killing people like the Muslims are intending to do. the So called "jihad" Ofcourse its not the god's way to gain believer's. Everyone has the right to believe in other god's and Believe in none. But the Christian muslim buddha etc Extremesist's simply forces the non believer's to believe.Thats not the real way of Spreading religion. Its Total Barbarian Behavior. I Personaly Respect every god. Allah Buddha God. Their sons Jezus Mohamed etc.(No wonder i got alot of Muslim and Turkish, Dutch Chinese friends :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 "If God is all Powerful, can he create something more powerful than himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardauker-Kirov Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Still Budhism Is a Religion. second i didnt read the Muslim books. Third, God is very powerfull but still he cant create something more powerfull himself. In fact why should he create a Powerfull being in the galaxy.Fourth, What does Agnostic mean. Oh leader of a All Brain Executions. :PFifth Did you even readed the bible's of god and Jezus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nampigai Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 * Note Mohammed was a prophet not a son of any god, I believe jews believe the same about JesusJust to bring in something new.I believe Jesus have lived, all the evidence point in this direction (IMHO), but this also means that he was human, and as some may know he had a girl Marie og Magdelan as one of he's disciples. They spend alot of time together, and it is said that she brought the holy grail, with Jesus' blood, to a jewis comunity in France.However some believes, I included, that it wasn't a grail with he's blood, but he's bloodline she carried, his child.This may sound blasphemic but I think it's possible..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobdouds Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 No Kirov, it means we all have a deep connection with God. And Christianity is a branch from Judaism, but differentiated to a point where they have total differences. And Kirov, Christianity can be just as violent as any other, cough crusades cough...It means that God is our spiritual father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbaronatreides Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Yep, the heebs take Jesus as a prophet not a son of god. They are still waiting for a "kingly" messaih.Jesus had offspring??? Wasn't this mentioned in Dogma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nampigai Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Haven't seen it, I saw a program on discovery about the Knights Templar, they where mentioned as the guardians of his offspring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted February 21, 2002 Author Share Posted February 21, 2002 USulSK, why do u always want to challenge me at history, huh?"tolerance for homosexuals a positive aspect (even though Im not a homosexual, I can tolerate them 100%) for example" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nampigai Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 What do you mean they were killed in the crusades? They establissed comunities in europe doing bankworks, like transporting money for the elite, some think they helped founding Switzerland(?). The knights templar existed in nearly two hundred years, and grew very powerful. This made some people envius, one of them was Philip La Bel of France and in year 1307 on oct 13 (a friday) various templars were arrested and burned on the stakes for herecy.Yet some still claims the Knights Templar excist upto this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsulSK Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 > "which barbarian kingdoms are you talking of?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 The Knights Templar NaMpIgAi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardauker-Kirov Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Well, And who told you that? That allah is the same god?Is it in the Bible? Explain yourself.Ordos dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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