Women: Can't live with 'em.

[Dunenewt]

Kirb, let these posts be the end of it, or the topic will get locked.

[Sneakgab]

edit: Woops, sorry Dunenewt. Upon reading you will my feeling is the same. I only posted this as your post came during the writing of this one. Sorry.  :-[

Oh heavens, I find myself dragged here to state the obvious despite expectations!

Is it not clear that I was merely poking fun? Do you really think I would offend intentionally in such a fashion?

Yet now I must come and explain some miscommunication regarding the most minute and pedantic of things.

"I really do apologize in advance for that insult though"

That is meant to be: I apologize IF somebody is insulted in advance though. I would have written exactly that, but I did not think I needed to mind my words so closely. In the past people were not this touchy.

Dare I say that an obsession with pointing out the wrongs of a forum member is the cause for this?

''Dante doesn't "get this crap" because he's earned respect among the members of this forum''

What silliness. The meaning of words do not change with respecter to the voice behind the word. If Robert Mugabe says/claims A, it is just as true or false as when Nelson Mandela claims A.

''As a matter of fact, going to this extent to ensure that it is understood that nothing serious has been said here is probably paranoid, but I shall desist regardless.''

Apparently, I was not paranoid enough! Despite thinking that I was silly to offer apologies in advance on a forum where many here insult each other here in good rumor on a regular basis (presumably feeling sure that people will understand this).

Should I mind my words once again and state specifically that my usage of the word insult above may not technically be considered perfectly correct since this is joking that I speak of as opposed to intentional offense?

''Sneakgab... I hate to break it to you, but that was too pathetic even to be insulting. I can't be offended by anything that pitiful.''

And in advance to those who are bound to claim I am defending my brother and criticize for it; Even if that were my intention, it makes no difference to my words.

In addition to that, do you forget that a possible reason is not necessarily the only absolute reason for something? I trust that you could not be so shortsighted but I see that some can choose to overlook it and therefore choose to mention this explicitly.

I could just as easily ''criticize'' (illegitimately in more ways than one) Dragoon Knight for his constant joining but I will not do this for obvious reasons.

Of course for the reason mentioned above, you may doubt this fact about insulting and whatnot despite it coming from the horse's mouth (no exploitment of opportunity please). I think that if that is the case then you should question your grounding as though my true meaning is not truly confirmable by you it can also be said that nothing is confirmable. Things that cannot be disproved are dubious as statements.

Pfft. And you think your recyclable in it's uniqueness was comedy gold? I even recall the specific usage of this line used by you (in this thread that is, ie: not referring to the recalled user):

http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?topic=20696.30

Namipigai's comment.

If you have any objectivity, you will at least admit that neither of us can lay these pokes as our claims to comedy fame.

Despite this, I will not flame endlessly or care about the last word...

I REFUSE to participate further in some silliness regarding who ''burns the best'' and pedantics over some minor comment of mine even IF it was a misstep on my part.

I'm sure my brother feels the same way. Now if only you would desist from this pointless as well, things would be even better.

Honestly, if you have time to waste on such minute issues, then you have time to better use your minds for PRP, Fan fiction and Duniverse (well, I am to unread in Dune for that last section myself...). ;D :)

By the very least, end this nonsense and get this thread back ON TOPIC. In the event this pleading request goes unfulfilled, it would seem to me appropriate that this thread be locked since it no longer serves it's original, or any useful function.

I end this post by re-iterating, I generally care not for the general section (that humor good enough for you?) though I do not think there is anything wrong with it. I also do not care about this topic, or this petty argument, and so I will under no conditions post here again.

The general section is not one of the unique elements that attracts me to the Dune2k forum that no other forum I have found has possessed (I think you can guess what these elements are and no they're not Dune discussion though I can see how that would be a logical guess).

For petty squabbles, chit chat, and threads on peoples likes, dislikes, favorites (music,e.t.c) I can go to any other board.

Now, I have anime to tend to! and this time I have wasted on this general board is more than I have in years and more than I ever should have! (once again, that is not say that the board is a waste or that those who browse and post in it waste there time)

[Dunenewt]

And for Dunenewt's conclusion, which is the final word on the whole matter, Sneakgab should read more Dune books.

[Dragoon Knight]

And for Dunenewt's conclusion, which is the final word on the whole matter, Sneakgab should read more Dune books.

Well no, it's not. :P

Sneakgab, it's nice that you've come to try and explain yourself, but the fact remains that you made the "jab" several sentences before you "apologised in advance".  So your explanation doesn't quite fit.

Also, your wording indicates that you acknowledge that it was an insult, and you even mentioned who it was directed towards.  You might need wing mirrors if you keep backpedalling like that. :P

And for the last time, I come into these conversations because Dante is my friend.  If someone had said what you did in a pub or other real-life situation, they would be collecting their teeth on their way out.

While I don't expect this post to go without another no doubt lengthy response, that's the last from me on this issue.

Now, ON TOPIC: It's not that I have the TV turned on to Loose Women all the time... it's just that it's constantly in the Programme Guide when I go to check what's on.  Just how loose are these women? :D

[Dante]

Very, apparantly.

Does this really matter, people? Sneakgab made a poor attempt at a jab and then tried to cover it with platitudes. Can we move on now?

[Khan]

I'm very happy to say that the Sheila's Wheels adverts seem to have all but stopped.  I've not seen them in ages.  The Freeview channel "Dave" has seen sense and doesn't show it at all.  Since it's a channel marketed towards men around my age, it was a smart move.

I don't know if you've ever noticed this but there seem to be a lot of adverts on Dave directed towards women, and some advertised towards kids at like 1 am. It all seems very strange to me, though I did see a brilliant advert for a circular saw which could cut through a caravan.

[Dunenewt]

I love that advert!  Makes me really want to buy one...but also reminded me of Robot Wars for some reason.

[Mihail]

Women... *sigh&reminisce*

But enough of that.

I don't watch any of the shows mentioned here, but I have a very good idea what goes on in them(having seen a few bits and pieces of them during my short life). Of course guys don't get it - but we're not supposed to, either. It's just some inherent difference in men and women - men tend to respond more to visual signals, but women - to  audial(is that correct grammar? I really want an answer, though :D) ones. A genetic thing, apparently. During the period that we, human beings, were primitive mammoth-hunting brutes for 40,000 years or so, it got wired into mens brains that - No talking! Chase, throw spear, kill.

But in the case of women, they had a lot more time to stay at home with the kids and other women and to interact, chat, basically - be the "Loose Women" of their primitive, dark times. And 40,000 years of programming is hard to rewrite in +-1000.

And it's not just made-up filth that I'm spewing - there have been studies that show that women use several thousand words more than men every day.

Another example: When several men go over to another man's place to watch hockey/football/basketball, they are usually quiet(unless drunk, of course, and in that case they have merry little party where something or someone usually ends up broken...) - content to show their (dis)pleasure when the team they support scores or gets scored against.

But women... When they have a get-together, you can expect lots of talking about who is having an affair with who, what the newest hairstyle is, etc., while their teacups, quite full, get cold on the coffee table.

So I think that my point is that men and women are just inherently different and respond to and enjoy different signals and activities. :)

[Hypatia]

When they have a get-together, you can expect lots of talking about who is having an affair with who, what the newest hairstyle is, etc., while their teacups, quite full, get cold on the coffee table.

But be aware that this is a stereotype that is not true of many women. Personally, I don't really care about the newest hairstyles, I hate tea, and I do my relationship gossiping in the context of my soaps and at a soap forum. And even there I'm amazed at the obsession some people have with hair and clothes, etc. I never really noticed much of that before until I saw pages of people arguing which shade of light brown looks best on a particular actress. I should mention that some of these soap fans are guys...

Any women I get together with in a social situation are usually science fiction/fantasy fans, as I am. We talk about our favorite TV shows, books, computers, collecting, and our cats.

In truth, I've observed over the years that if a guy who is a gamer or SF fan wants a steady relationship with a woman, he'd best find a woman who also likes those activities. Otherwise, it's like trying to match a devoutly religious person with an atheist. It rarely works.

[Mahdi]

I like a nice cup of tea.  Vangaurd is really into fashion and clothes.  Nema enjoys playing with mens hair.  Edric's always asking about Gob and Timenns affair.  Acriku buys every new gossip mag.  Ordos... well, Ordos is Ordos.

[gunner154]

Mahdi hasn't shown us micro Mahdi yet, and the world's waiting.

[Mihail]

But be aware that this is a stereotype that is not true of many women. Personally, I don't really care about the newest hairstyles, I hate tea, and I do my relationship gossiping in the context of my soaps and at a soap forum. And even there I'm amazed at the obsession some people have with hair and clothes, etc. I never really noticed much of that before until I saw pages of people arguing which shade of light brown looks best on a particular actress. I should mention that some of these soap fans are guys...

Any women I get together with in a social situation are usually science fiction/fantasy fans, as I am. We talk about our favorite TV shows, books, computers, collecting, and our cats.

In truth, I've observed over the years that if a guy who is a gamer or SF fan wants a steady relationship with a woman, he'd best find a woman who also likes those activities. Otherwise, it's like trying to match a devoutly religious person with an atheist. It rarely works.

Well, yes, but I'm talking about the average person - Average Joe and Average Jane. :) One of the greatest things of this and the last century is how men and women are casting off so many stereotypes. But some remain, quite deeply entrenched.

[Hypatia]

Well, yes, but I'm talking about the average person - Average Joe and Average Jane. :) One of the greatest things of this and the last century is how men and women are casting off so many stereotypes. But some remain, quite deeply entrenched.

True enough. The whole "man in charge" thing has caused a lot of strife for me, since that's the way I was raised and it took a couple of decades to get deprogrammed that life doesn't have to be that way. I mentioned my father's girlfriend several posts back... she was furious to discover that I was my grandmother's executor (of the will), and not my father. She could have influenced my father to do all kinds of things that would have gained her eventual ownership of our property, but she knew that would not be possible with me. She muttered stuff about my father being the man, he should be in charge instead of his daughter, etc.

There are lots of situations where, given a household with at least one adult male and one adult female, people tend to assume the male is the one in charge, who makes the decisions or vetoes them, and the woman just agrees with him. I'm glad that attitudes are gradually becoming more equal-minded. Perhaps the general public needs a good dose of Society for Creative Anachronism-style equality, where the women are allowed to fight in the lists and become Queen in their own right and the men can sit and embroider -- and nobody looks down on either group, just helps them to do their best at whatever they try.

[gunner154]

It'd be useful to further clarify that stereotypes persist not necessarily because one wishes them to persist, but because one is afraid of criticism when he/she fails to fit the stereotype.

In short, peer pressure... sort of.

[Hypatia]

Peer pressure exists in all age groups, by the way. My grandmother and her sister grew up programmed to believe that women wear dresses, and it's wrong to wear pants. It wasn't until the '70s that I convinced my grandmother to wear pants, at least in winter, so she wouldn't be so cold (the winters could be pretty brutal 30 years ago). She tried it, found she preferred it, and never wore dresses again. She tried to convince her sister, but her sister refused to budge. She thought it more important to conform and be "proper" than to be comfortable.

[Mahdi]

Mahdi hasn't shown us micro Mahdi yet, and the world's waiting.

A very small world consisting of you.

[D2k Sardaukar]

If in a relationship one is in charge, I think things are or will go wrong and you better talk about it or end the relationship. No one can live his life the fullest if being 'overruled' in his/her most important relationship. Together you need to enjoy and discuss the ups, the downs and the path you go in a relationship.

I think being able to talk or have discussions with each other in clear and proper manner, not one above the other, is one of the most important keys in most, if not all, healthy long term relationships. And did does not mean you need to agree with each other on everything there is, but cropping things inside or keeping secrets will end up doing damage on both sides, even the most silly things (like bad breath) can do damage and should, if I dare to say, must, be talked about and we all know that bad breath can be helped.

[nemafakei]

"It's just some inherent difference in men and women - men tend to respond more to visual signals, but women - to  audial ones."

To answer your question, the grammar is fine, but the word audial doesn't exist. Audible would work, as would aural.

I think ascribing 'entrenched' tendencies to genetics is dangerous. Not only are there always exceptions, but it's often difficult to tell what's simply a cultural thing developed for perhaps the same reasons and rigorously enforced through the ages.

[gunner154]

The point with peer pressure is that a person might want to deviate from the stereotype, but is reluctant because of the peer pressure repercussions.

And yes, keeping secrets from each other is a bad, BAD thing.

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

"It's just some inherent difference in men and women - men tend to respond more to visual signals, but women - to  audial ones."

To answer your question, the grammar is fine, but the word audial doesn't exist. Audible would work, as would aural.

It's not really important.

[Dragoon Knight]

...but women - to  audial(is that correct grammar? I really want an answer, though :D)...

If you'd care to read, Kirby, you can see that it was important.

[Mihail]

"It's just some inherent difference in men and women - men tend to respond more to visual signals, but women - to  audial ones."

To answer your question, the grammar is fine, but the word audial doesn't exist. Audible would work, as would aural.

I think ascribing 'entrenched' tendencies to genetics is dangerous. Not only are there always exceptions, but it's often difficult to tell what's simply a cultural thing developed for perhaps the same reasons and rigorously enforced through the ages.

Yes, that was what I meant - about the wording. I use grammar and wording interchangeably, guess I should have been a bit more precise... But thanks! :)

Well, yes, but I think that if you go back far enough, the cultural norms and standards start to dictate the genetics. Take the same cavemen, for example. Sure, women could have been the hunters, but for one reason or another(reasons that I won't care to list, since I think that they're pretty self-obvious), men became the primary "sources" of food. That may have been a cultural thing then, yes. But it was so long ago and has been enforced for so long that it has become ingrained into the genetic memory of a newborn.

Of course, I'm no neuroscientist, the history of the human mind is a very complex one and barely understood, and these are just theories, but there you are...

[Khan]

And yes, keeping secrets from each other is a bad, BAD thing.

I disagree lies aren't bad t just depends how you tell em.

[gunner154]

It's a direction away from open communication.

And proper communication lays the foundation for a stable relationship.

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

It's a direction away from open communication.

And proper communication lays the foundation for a stable relationship.

I agree, In my opinion, an open relationship is a good relationship, you won't need to lie if you don't have anything to hide.