Wolf Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 As I said before it's easy to criticize someone else when you are not in his position.You keep bandying that about as if--even if it were true, which it isn't--it would mean something. No, even if we weren't in your position, we could still criticize you for taking actions that our own histories have informed us are ill-considered and morally questionable. But as a white American, do you see me complaining about the fact that white Americans will become a plurality by mid-century? I'll admit that some do, and I'll admit further that they are not the kind of people I'd generally want to have a beer with. But by and large, my country has decided that diversity of origin and thought and multicultural acceptance are good things, with positive benefits. Our history has also taught us that attempts to preserve the dominance of one ethnic group over others breeds discord, violence, and long-standing inter-ethnic animosity. In short, it's bad. So, you know what, the truth is that I really am in your position, but I think the difference is that I welcome it, and I think many other Americans do, too, because we've come to the conclusion that it is a good thing. If you think it's a bad thing, you better have a really compelling reason for it (in hindsight, most Americans even felt that Japanese internment was wrong, and World War Two was generally a serious time for serious action, so consider that). But, I don't think you do. In fact, I find it somewhat ironic that you talk about examples like this:No country is on the bridge of losing its identity, when someday let's say 100 million Italians would like to immigrate to Thailand I can assure you that almost all Thai including the government would strongly resist....when that is exactly what the Jews/Israelis did to the Palestinians in the mid-20th century! How do you think Israel came into existence? So, you admit that it's okay for the "natives" to resist a demographic overwhelm, thereby justifying Israel in denying Palestinians fundamental rights of citizenship, but I take it you don't seem to think it would have been okay for the Palestinians to resist the demographic overwhelm of them by European Jews in the first place? That's a little hypocritical. To boil your position on this point down to its essence, it seems that you're saying that demographic overwhelms are wrong and should be fought against--that is, except, unless it's Israelis who are doing it. At least this is consistent with your other views. A silver lining in every cloud, apparently.I repeat, I didn't say that we need to take some ethnic acts to preserve anything but also we don't need to take ethnic acts to do the opposite.What does this even mean? If Palestinians breed and Israelis don't, then the Palestinians will be a majority-in-fact even if you deny them political rights, and even if Israel has taken no "ethnic acts to do the opposite." At what point does it become a gross human rights violation to deny political rights to a substantial portion of your population? When they become the majority? Even afterward? Dred Scott much?It seems to me that if Israel does nothing in absolute terms, then it will be a country ruled by a minority of people who have all available political and civil rights, denying a majority of people of a different ethnic group most if not all political and civil rights. If that isn't a recipe for violence, I don't know what is. Even then, "doing nothing" can often subject you to liability: you are going to have to do something, and if giving Palestinians political rights is something you're not willing to do ("an ethnic act to do the opposite") because you're afraid of Israel "losing its identity," then you're going to have to face the larger problem of what to do when Palestinians are a majority-in-fact. You can't eliminate them (that irony must be obvious to you), so what are you going to do that isn't necessarily a gross human rights violation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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