The French and the origin of the middle finger.

[GUNWOUNDS]

In 1415, Henry the V took his army of around 6,000 men across the English channel and into southern France. After cutting trees and preparing large pointed sticks, Henry marched his army northwest for 17 days and over 270 miles. With only one day's rest, the mighty force was hagard and exhausted by the time they reached the flat land between the forest of Agincourt.

The French army, consisting of 25,000 troops, 15,000 of which were mounted knights in armor, arrived on the evening of October 24. Their army was a mishmash of Frenchmen from all over the feudal country. It rained hard that night, and both armies were soaked to the bone my morning. Most French knights slept in the saddle so as not to sully their expensive and ornate armor.

On the morning of October 25, the French and British armies were salty and ready to fight. Henry moved his troups slowly up the 1/2 mile wide passage between the two forests of Agincourt. By 11 Am, the French commanders were still bickering over tactics and whether or not to charge, and the British were within 400 yards of the French.

Now what made the battle of Agincourt so interesting was the introduction of what could be considered the only good think to come out of Wales aside from sheep bestiality: the Welsh long bow. This weapon could dismount a rider at 300 yards, and with top notch arrows, could pierce armor at close range.

When Henry had his troups within bowshot of the French, he loosed the first of many volleys of arrows. The French, caught off guard, charged with half their forces. The Duke of Orlean barely made it 200 yards before his knights broke and ran under a hail of deadly wood and steel. Many of the knights sank into the mud and were smooshed as the horses and frightened soldiers trampled them into a fine paste.

Those knights that did make it to the British front lines were lept upon by unarmored soldiers carrying short swords, who plunged their blades into the joints of the French armor. All this came after a great number of horses were impaled upon the huge pointed sticks the British had placed in the ground in front of them.

At the end of the day, the French had lost some 10,000 men, and the British mourned only 500 dead. In one day, the Hundred Years War had turned and the long bow had successfully defeated the myth of the invincible knight in armor.

Shakespeare went on to glorify this battle, and the French, to vilify it. For the next 100 years, every lad over the age of 6 in Britain was required to be instructed in the firing and maintaining of the long bow.

In response to this, the French began cutting off the index and middle fingers of all British men caught in battle or on French land, thus removing the digits that allowed the firing of a bow. This is where the British tradition of waving two fingers at someone as an insult arose. Thusly, the very American middle fingered salute, or "the bird," is a descendant of this.

[Inoculator9]

A wonderful tale :P

[Filo]

Interresting! I didn't know that!

In a same kind, I just learned this week why english people drive on the left side of the road : it comes from the time before cars, horses riding. The soldiers (beeing mostly right handed) had to hold their weapon in the right hand to use it by meeting the ennemy.

So, in France we often laugh at english who don't want to change anything, but in fact, it was the french who changed first the traffic side!

[Caid Ivik]

Interesting  ;D  So it became a sexual insult (from "fuck you" to "job tvoj' mat") only these days? But it should be in General thread.

[Inoculator9]

I think giving the finger is a major political statement :D

[nemafakei]

I knew about the two-fingered sign, but not the one-fingered. An odd erosion, but possible, I suppose.

[Anathema]

Already knew that. Why is this in PPR?

[leo]

Interesting

[Mahdi]

That's one story about the origin of the finger and fuck you.  There are dozens of them, with each one as likley as the one before it.

[Andrew]

I thought I heard the word fuck came from some prositutes from the wild west or something, but maybe it was a dream. and it stands for something other than slang.  :P

[Vanguard3000]

Andrew:  I heard a story once about it's origins.  Back in medieval times, it was apparently illegal to concieve children without the king's permission.  Those who did have permission would hang a sign on their door on the evening they... erm... took advantage of the king's permission.  The sign would say F.U.C.K., or "Fornication Under Consent of the King."  Maybe that's the myth you were thinking of.

[Andrew]

Yeah I think it was something along those lines. I knew it was an, a, whatever you call those type of words. :-[

[thomas]

you are all wrong I say wrong!!!! ;)

here's monty pythons view on the origin of the word fuck (

the term hooker came from the union general hooker who would get loads of prostitutes for his men to boost moral)

here's the link; http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fwordflash.html

[nemafakei]

The term which you mention has, as I recall from a linguistics book, come from danish or dutch (can't remember, probably the latter) who frequented England's ports.

[Inoculator9]

Fuck is actually derived from the German word for sexual intercourse.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Fuck is actually derived from the German word for sexual intercourse.

are you talking about ficken (sp?)

[Dante]

Already knew that. Why is this in PPR?

Same.

Well... apart from the typo...     ;)

[GUNWOUNDS]

Fuck is actually derived from the German word for sexual intercourse.

that may be true but this thread is about the origin of the middle finger which may have nothing to do with the word fuck.

Where do you think the middle finger originated inoc?

[GUNWOUNDS]

Already knew that. Why is this in PPR?

well the british and the french  and the 100 years war  are included in my story.. does that not make it political at all?

[Inoculator9]

Yes, fickin (sp:P).

And I believe the middle finger originated when an arthritic Nazi was trying to salute the fuhrer, couldn't lift any fingers save the middle nor turn his wrist properly, and an SS officer said fuck you to him in response. Of course the impressionably troops picked it up :P

[nemafakei]

"well the british and the french  and the 100 years war  are included in my story.. does that not make it political at all?"

It icludes a reference to an event which could at the time have been considered political. But it's hardly any decent reason not to put it into the board for general interest.

[Edric O]

The people have spoken. :) The topic is now in General.

[Inoculator9]

Wow, going on popular opinion... a true bush-hating, liberal socialist from hell ;) I lvoe it!

[Harkdawg]

haha that ebaums link was fucking hilarious

[Andrew]

haha that ebaums link was fucking hilarious

Yah I had the monty python audio for a long time. Classic.