Tezcatlipoca

The Harkonnen (Seriously! Check with the BG! They're not humans!)

GG Patriots GG ;D

Giants WOOT!

So did anyone else see Tony Romo and T.O cry? I did. It was great. :D

I'd have to dig up the reference, but I'm quite sure that even during the scattering, people went no further than the outer-core of our galaxy. As for looking for new places, the guild, being well versed in space travel and all things space, would probably study likely locations remotely like we do, then plot their space fold to that location, and just like they do with traveling between known places, use their "vision" to guide them safely there. Once there they could easily see if it was habitable or worthwhile in anyway, and if so put it up for sale in the imperial market.

Update: Went literally around the corner from where I live, and ended up buying their last Bumble (45" tall), and they threw in a 15" Yukon for free. Sweet.

Just out of curiousity, anyone know any online sites that'll sell a (reasonably priced) good sized Bumble or Yukon Cornelius stuffed animal?

I'm still here! Mostly only have lurking time though :(

For the first question, it all comes down to his prescience. The other answers are all part of it for sure, but the fremen, until Muad'dib came, were basically pinned. They depended on the spice like most of the universe to survive. Probably more so given how much of their internal economy depended on it (food, plastics, ect). This is one reason why they were taking the slow route to reform the planet; so they could release their dependence on it and make their lives a bit easier, although I'm sure not all of them or even most understood this. The other option, which perhaps some knew about, required organization and knowledge about the outside political and military world. This is because only with complete control of Dune could they hope to challenge the outside powers. With Paul, they had a leader who could organize them. His first step was stopping spice production. This grabbed the immediate attention of the universe, and prompting the personal attention of the primary military force of that universe: the emperor. This strategically put the emperor in a poor position, as it provided the opportunity for Paul to dethrone him without leaving the planet (something the Guild wouldn't have permitted), and eliminating the Emperor and universe's main weapon; his Sardaukar. Once these were gone, then and only then could he implement his threat in a *political* way to pressure the universe *and* in a military way that could properly defend the planet in this threat. So why couldn't a different leader achieve this, such as Stilgar? Well of course he didn't have the prophecy behind him, but beyond that, it comes down to prescience. The Guild can "see" the possible futures in the universe, and especially catastrophic events such as the end of their organization. But with Paul there, they see nothing. This is why they needed him killed, because they knew he could work without their knowledge against them. But unfortunately they had to rely on those with militarys: The Emperor and his allied Houses. Without seeing what he was doing, he was free to actually implement a strategy to bring about the completion of the first stage. Your second question as to do with the second stage. I disagree with TMA here in that I believe Paul *did* realize how the future had to progress. He saw the Jihad, and knew he had to let it go: this merely prepared the universe for the scattering by doing numerous things, such as destroy the economy and eliminate it's dependence on spice. Once poverty stricken, it breaks the mold of human complacency and forces them to seek out survival in new venues, thus promoting the scattering. The scattering required a trigger however, and this is what Paul couldn't face doing. After the Jihad, he had basically spent his all of his emotional strength. He simply didn't have the balls to do it from there on out, mostly because he was too human. That's why he left it, hoping that it was enough. I think he knew in the back of his mind that it *wasn't* enough, but just didn't have the emotional strength to complete it, which is why he didn't try to stop his son, and more or less set up the field for his son to complete it. As for your main question on this point, it was a Jihad like any other. It had to be. In a universe with, as mentioned, possibly trillions of people, a hand full of fremen (millions) could only be the "trainers" of the movement. It was up to other people to be convinced of it and carry it out. So while he had control of the fremen (although I believe the fremen culture is set up so that it's control is mostly on an individual basis: they followed Maud'dib, performed his strategies because they trusted that it was correct; but it wasn't blind loyalty like a Sardaukar to his Emperor), he could only send them to locations to stir up the Jihad in their own unique way. This generally meant the elimination of anyone that wasn't behind them. Think of it like a mob with mob mentality. Paul sends a fremen to a population. That population is the mob, and the fremen is the trigger. He or she gets that mod rioting, and the deaths follow. Only through this path could he actually bring control of the universe back under the Imperial control once he had it. Why would anyone follow him simply because he killed the previous Emperor? They wouldn't; they would factionalise along the lines already set up in the feudal system. So, he needed to re-solidify. In a universe where standing militaries are more or less worthless in size, he had a huge one, and still it was minuscule. The Jihad had to complete to collectivize his power, among other reasons (some stated above).

Arrrggh... These land lovers be walkin' the plank at next sail!

Cool; thanks.

Check out the Other Dune Games section: http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?board=11.0 Any that have been done and mentioned here would probably be there (although I saw some discussions of others in some of the other forums, such as Dune Editing. By the looks of it, you're looking for more recent games, but you didn't specifically specify so I'll mention one for Starseige: Tribes I did a while ago: http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?topic=7757.0 It isn't hosted any more but the files for hosting are available for the public. And I can host it at any time a special request is made.

If you could find that quote, that would be cool. Because otherwise their name suggests Finnish as I believe has been brought up before. Corrino and Fremen come from the same stock at least partially, if you assume that the Corrino are comprised mostly of Salus Secundus...ionians... Salus *Secundus* being the second stopping point in the Wandering Zensunni's migration, Arrakis being the last. That said, we can expect that any imperial house (Atreides included, as referenced by the BG's free form mingling) inter-breeds with eachother, much like aristocratic families have done in our past for generations. So as far as any minor differences in genetics between humans go, all the House members are probably in a class of their own. Better get that book rechecked ;)

Perhaps the son should have found a different profession then. Or at the very least, developed his on series in his own universe rather than poisoning his fathers. Luckily, the originals are in such a standing as it is very difficult to shake them down due to legally binding "continuations" by alternate authors. Unfortunately, I've met people who have set their opinion based on the later....

Well Andrew, I think gathering from what Caid said and what appears on the video is that this public access channel shows a live feed of this valley in the Krkonose mountains, and this group of artists with a fun sense of humor artificially added in a simulation of a small atomic explosion into the looping feed. I'm guessing some measure of a protest against the ongoing development of a US/NATO missile defense shield?

As long as you're at peace with it :). From my digging, there is unfortunately no support in the canon (minus the Brain Herbert stuff, assuming you accept that as canon) for that symbol being linked to the Harkonnen. In fact, I would accepted it to be more closely related to the Atreides, as the crest of Leto's father (Leto's being the Hawk, and Pauls being Muad'Dib, the formation on the second moon, or the second moon itself).

Heh. First Dell reverts back to selling with XP loaded, now Ubuntu. Something smells, and I think it's Vista ;)

Good stuff. I'll have to grab it.

The can was a diversion. The fluid, which couldn't be replicated exactly given the disgusting ingredients that Pepsi-Co uses, was simply the vehicle for microscopic medical analysis and short term tracking devices. Upon finding you medically appropriate, you were abducted, probed, your memory wiped, and released back into the wild. And if you find the chronic tracking device embedded under your skin, don't worry; most of us have one by now. Mine two inches to the left of the base of my sternum. That way it can release toxins directly into my heart if I attempt to tamper with it.

So is it Leto or Duncan? :P 1. Piter. Definately Piter. Even if he isn't really a Harkonnen, and just in his employ. 2. This may sound strange, but the Atreides trooper that was in the arena with Feyd. For me, he exemplified the mindset that was engrained into the Atreides military. Even if he was a pawn (and knew it) he was still a no bullshit-fight till you drop and do whatever damage you can with what you're given fellow. Thufir would be in second; what a galient fellow.

I say we all pool our money to buy him a giant novelty hat a kilometer in diameter. He and his bride can move into it in some desolate place in the outback, fight kangaroos over salt licks and host giant parties inside it. [hide]Just because we post doesn't mean we don't learn. For instance, I was just answering a question, not responding gullably :P. Besides If we *didn't* post, it wouldn't be convincing! [/hide]

Well, they're slightly different down there. You see, everything is backwards: they have their weddings in the winter, the grooms wear the dress, they serve cake before the meal, and the wedding *starts* with everyone drunk.

I enjoyed the part in the movie (you know, the one where it looked like they went over every digitialized pixel of every frame for touchup and special effects reasons, which mind you were *mostly* well done) where we got to see the Queen of Sparta's smallpox vacination scar. Her very very obvious scar. Sparta was a healthy land...

You don't have to *convert* people to make them fight for you. The a large amount of major historical conquring peoples utilized the "you fight for us or else" concept. It was also a (minor) theme that I saw in the Dune series anyway; there were only so many Sardaukar, and everyone together could have defeated them. But they were a large dangerous threat that simply attracted those more willing to toss their lot in with those that would make them the most successful. Also, don't forget about the cooperation of the Guild. That's quite paramount. Besides being important by itself, it further reenforces the above argument; you either get to be trapped on isolation on your planet, and watch it decend into a dark age, or you can fight for us. <shrug>

Hrm. I miss the pictures and the old layout already, but it fits real nice on my pda now :D. However, the nav menu takes up a lot of vertical space on the pda, as each link is listed on a separete line double spaced.