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About Purge

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  1. Jewish > American > Etc Many Jews have loved, fought for, etc. their nation only for their nation to turn around and scapegoat them in one way or another. While I don't necessarily see something like that happening in America (at least in my lifetime), if I were ever put in a position to choose between being Jewish and being American there would be no question that first and foremost I am a Jew.
  2. My point was that his assertion was misleading. Of course Christian bibles can have different meanings, because few people read the Christian "NT" in its original Greek, and very few Christians can read the Hebrew Bible in Hebrew. Their entire understanding is based on whoever translated it for them. However, the "Hebrew Bible" is written and read in its original language Hebrew with a little Aramaic, thus there is no translating, and no different versions (although there are Jewish translations for those who can only read english, however observant Jews read it in Hebrew).
  3. That's not true. There is one and only one Hebrew Bible. It consists of three sections, and 24 books, or scrolls. Below I will list their true Hebrew name/transliteration and in parenthesis I will put the name they are known as in English. Torah 1. B'reishit (Genesis) 2. Sh'mot (Exodus) 3. VaYiqra (Leviticus) 4. B'midbar (Numbers) 5. D'varim (Deuteronomy) Nevi'im (Prophets) 6. Y'hoshu'a (Joshua) 7. Shoftim (Judges) 8. Sh'muel (Samuel) 9. Melachim (Kings) 10. Y'sha'yahu (Isaiah) 11. Yirm'yahu (Jeremiah) 12. Y'hezqel (Ezekiel) 13. Trei Asar (the Twelve) - Hoshe'a (Hosea) - Yoel (Joel) - 'Amos (
  4. The plural word goyim simply means "nations", the singular goy means "nation".
  5. This is no support for the notion that the Jews changed Ishmael into Isaac. It is a claim with no support in the text or in any tradition. Such a claim only comes in the commentary on the Quran long after the fact, after the Torah, not to mention after Muhammad himself (who never makes such a claim). I wasn't asking what an exegetic interpolation is, I was asking for some support for such a claim. Again, there is no support for this claim. It is just an attempt to retro-fit a 8th or 9th century CE belief to a BCE text. The phrase is not confusing, but when translating a word which has pa
  6. The oldest scrolls are obviously those which were found at Qumran (most of which date from between the 5th century BCE to the 1st century BCE), which were not subject to the burnings, persecutions, etc. which those in Jewish communities were from the Babylonians down thru to recently. There are some more recent manuscripts written by the masoretes which incorporate the trop and vowel points which date to the 10th or 11th century CE. TBH, the "chosen people" thing is completely misinterpreted more often than not. Unfortunately, some Jews who are not all that familiar with Judaism and Jewishne
  7. My point was that even most minimalists regard the Torah as a compilation of much much older documents, and not something suddenly recorded for posterity during/after the Babylonian exile. Torah scrolls the world over are and have been exactly the same. The biggest variation between Torahs is probably with the Yemini Torah which has something like 7-9 variations, none of which change the word or meaning of the word (for instance, a word ending with an alef rather than a heh, etc). It's easy to make accusations against something based on the possibility that such and such could or may have be
  8. Even some of the most minimalist historians believe that the Torah was compiled from a couple already long-existing texts. However, these theories show a complete lack of understanding of the Hebrew, and stem largely from extremely anti-Jewish periods in Germany. They are mostly attempts to resurrect the already long-ago defeated Wellhausen theory of various sources. Needless to say observant Jews reject these theories. Yes, and when Moshe is recording the earliest stories in Bereshit (Genesis) he is recording it as G-d is telling him at Sinai. Not to mention the fact that the stories of
  9. I understand what you are saying, but the logic doesn't work. By "chapter 22" Isaac had already been born. Either way it can't mean what Islam interprets it to mean, which is that Avraham only had one son at that time. You mentioned earlier that you believed Isaac was just a baby. Yet Ishmael is born at the end of one chapter (Abraham is 86) and is 13 (Abraham is 99) the next chapter. The next five "chapters" cover mostly the span of one year. Sarah gives birth to Isaac at 90. The next chapter is the binding of Isaac. Then the beginning of the very next chapter right after the binding
  10. I don't think you understand the Torah (or Bible as you call it) nor what adultery is in the biblical context. Adultery refers to a married woman, which Hagar certainly was not, and thus neither Avraham nor Hagar were guilty of any such thing. After the giving of the Torah when the Miqdash (whether tabernacle or later the Temple) stood and the Sanhedrin was in effect, it would be a capital crime for a man to get with a married woman/married woman to get with any other man than her husband (the circumstances under which it could be enforced are extensive, and I won't get into them). However,
  11. There is no inconsistency within the text, though. The claim is bogus. It has no support linguistically or in any other manner. Yitzhaq (yud-tzadi-het-qof) and Yishmael (yud-shin-mem-alef-lamed) are not similar whatsoever in spelling or meaning. The respective stories behind the names are consistent within the stories, whereas the notion that one name was replaced with the other would take a huge conspiracy that has no historical backing. The Muslim tradition of Ishmael being the son in question does not come from the Koran but from later commentators, and from what I read Muslims were not
  12. Agreed. Iraq has never in history been one entity. Even in the ancient days there was Assyria in the north and Babylonia in the south. The only time they were one entity was when one was imposing themself on the other, or when an entirely foreign power (such as Persia or Greece) was imposing themself on both. The Kurds got the shaft when the British and French were handing over large pieces of land of the Arabs - who largely had no part whatsoever in bringing down the Ottomans. The fact is the Kurds represent pretty much everything American wishes they could get out of the Arabs. They ha
  13. It is not a discrepency. Yishmael was sent away to live in Paran while only Yitzchaq remained with Avraham and his mother Sarah. Chapter twenty two (again there are actually no chapter, this is all one narrative in a scroll) takes place after the birth of Yitzhaq and after Yishmael has been sent away to Paran, so there is no possible way that this sentence implies that Avraham only has one living son. Muslims choose to ignore the entirety of the sentence "your son your only son who you love Isaac" and make excuses for why it says what it says, but they cannot retroactively change what it sa
  14. There are various archaeological and DNA support for the ancient Jews. There is a Kohen (the Kohanim were the priests descent from Aharon) gene which dates back to the second millenium BCE. Pretty much every city in Israel has under it or in its vicinity a city from the time of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel. There is the Hezekiah inscription, the large gates at Megiddo, Gezer, and Hatzor dating to 10th century, palaces dating to the time of Humri and Ahav, the wall from the time of Nechemiyah after the return from Bavel, etc. Of coure archaeology can absolutely never prove or disprove su
  15. וַיֹּאמֶר קַח-נָא אֶת-בִּנְךָ אֶת-יְחִידְךָ אֲשֶׁר-אָהַבְתָּ אֶת-יִצְחָק וְלֶךְ-לְךָ אֶל-אֶרֶץ הַמֹּרִיָּה Vayomer qah-na et-bin'cha et-y'hid'cha asher ahav'ta et-Yitzhaq v'lech l'cha el Eretz ha'Moriyyah And He said, "Take now your son, your lone son, who you love, Isaac, and go forth to the land of Moriyyah..." Of what matter is it that Yishmael is still alive? Yitzhaq is alive too at this time - according to Jewish tradition in his late 30s - so any attempt to interpret this as speaking of only one son being alive is incorrect from the get-go. By this point Yishmael and Hagar had gone in
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