Fed2k Ladder Rules

[exatreide]

Ex do you even own a copy of Emp anymore? ???

Ten mins is ridiculous. This needs to be taken seriously.

Vil maybe you can edit the first post and take toll of all the suggestions and the later have the poll.

all four discs, the sound track and even the peice of paper that gives the code for the houses three speical units that no one else got for a month..

so :P

[ken124578]

Uhm... the special units were the ADP/AA mine and the airdrone. You could get all 3 units by setting your time 3 months ahead. :P

[exatreide]

but the sound track kicks ass ;D

[Dunenewt]

everyone has the soundtracks - there included in the music.bag on the houses CDs

[DjCiD]

[quote author=ExAtreides

[Navaros]

The Rule really needs to be 3 minutes, just as Westwood designed it. There is no reason to take away the 3 minute rule or alter it in any way, other than to accomodate people who suck too badly to be able to handle the 3 minute rule.

Westwood spent a lot of money researching and testing Emperor for the sake of balance, and determined that the most fair way to balance the game at the start was to have the Under 3 Rule.

Has anyone here spent huge amounts of cash on R&D, as Westwood did, and is therefore qualified to claim that they know better than Westwood how Emperor should be balanced?! Has anyone here applied scientific tests to such things, as Westwood did when developing Emperor?!

The answer of course, is: NO!

The ONLY thing people here who are trying to throw away Westwood's Rules are basing their opinion on is: "I suck so badly at Emperor, that there is no possible way I can Win unless I abuse the early-game imbalances of Emperor, which of course is not possible with Westwood's Fairness-ensuring Under 3 Rule --- so let's scrap it!"

That, my friends, is nothing other than sick. Attempting to corrupt and defile the balance which the game designer put into the game by way of Official Rules, for no reason other than to accomodate a total lack of skill by those who seek to throw away the Official Rules for no legitimate purpose at all.

If you suck too badly to be able to wait 3 minutes before getting in your enemy's face, don't play Emperor! Emperor was never designed or developed with babies like you in mind, Westwood made that quite clear with their Under 3 Rule, and you have no right force your lack of skill and immoral perversion of Westwood's own Rules, down the throats of the real players who do not suck and can abide by all Westwood's Rules and still Win.

[Harkdawg]

Nav im kind a starting to like it :)

To any new players out there reading yet another redicolous post by dear Navaros, let me say the following.

Navaros is a evercomplaining, noob bashing, non skill having, hiding & abusing 3 minute rule,suddenly claiming to be a god kind of a emperor player. Now as for hes post is concerned this time.

let me laugh a little, LOL, ok...

Wtf? Research for the 3 min to make Emp balanced???? What a load of HOOOO HAAAAA

I Belive it was taken from ra2 simple as that and for a LAG TEST. But the kind of a player Nav is, as i described b4, hes building a fantasy story now.

The Fact that Emperor Battle for Dune is a Well Balanced Game, makes it no need for an abusive 3 min rule.Simple 30 seconds - 1 minute would be enough to see if the game lags.

Why does Navaros still say Westwood made 3 min rule just for emperor to be balanced?

Its simple, as i described him above b4, the non-skill part, he cant beat ppl rushing him with tier 1 units thus he quits (i shouldve added a quitter in the description but i think the abusiveness does the trick also).

But throughout the 2 years of Emperor Battle For Dune, is there any other Atreides player moaning, lieing, manipulating, abusing the 3 min - kind of a player???

yes Nav THE ANSWER IS : NO, its just U.

Everyone else beats the rushes and gets a nice Good Game.

Now after 2 years of online gameing for Emperor, there have been numberous people , including myself, who can beat the rushes and thus having absolutaley no need to abuse the 3 min rule.

If many ppl can do it, is it impossible???

Yes the answer is: NO it isnt impossible.

But why does Navaros still say its impossible, AFTER numberous ppl have proven that it is not? Well kids, lets go back to hes description, the non - skill part again.

He simply lacks of knowledge to make it happen, i dont know how much has he tryed but u can see that he has given up on getting the skill rather he is just moaning over the board how abusing the 3 min is the right thing to do, Dont let ureself get confused ITS NOT the answer.

Navaros talk about the " Its Official rules " " corrupting the balance "

" its made by the Designers " , people after u have read my text above do u think the game is unbalanced or do u think now that Navaros has really no skill and is just full of Hype.

And the thing that makes me laugh the most about what he said " total lack of skill " .....WELL LOOK WHOS TALKING.

Can anyone make sence about what Navaros means by saying :

" If you suck too badly to be able to wait 3 minutes before getting in your enemy's face, don't play Emperor! Emperor was never designed or developed with babies like you in mind, Westwood made that quite clear with their Under 3 Rule, and you have no right force your lack of skill and immoral perversion of Westwood's own Rules, down the throats of the real players who do not suck and can abide by all Westwood's Rules and still Win. "

What i read from this is something like this: Let me try to put it this way-

2 people run X amount of distance.The runner A runs the distance with 1 minute, but runner B runs it through with 3 minutes.

Lets say out of a blue there is a rule made for something totally diffrent, but allows the runners quit during the run under 3 minutes thus makeing no one a winner.

So basiaclly this is what would happen, as soon as runner A is about to finish (ala 50 seconds) the runner B looks " hell, no " and yells "QUIT" and now since there is a rule ment for something totally diffrent but it hapopens to apply to the "QUIT" scream also, None of the Runners get the win. The hard earned win for the fast runner A..... gets no credit AND will never HAVE since runner B will ALWAYS scream quit.

Do u get the picture now?

And the runner B will never improve himself, he will never do any cardio- he will eat burgers etc. What Runner B wants is that at 2:59 point, he would 1 meter away from the finish while runner A has to wait 1:59 near the finish and let player B win.

Oh and any mods out there who think i started some flameing! Then Read Navs post. i think thats the real fule to the fire. im just saying the Facts, and not letting any new ppl be confused by this evil creature called Navaros.

[Navaros]

harkdawg,

i won't flame you like you did to me, but i will address what you said.

your comparison is not valid. in your running situation, both runners would not be on an equal position to Win after a certain time into the race. with Emperor, both players do have an equal chance to Win at 3 minutes or any time after (if they didn't touch each other yet). therefore, your comparison is illogical

the reasons Westwood put in the Under 3 Rule for Emperor was:

1. so players could be creative with their BO's. having to make a Fac first or second, EVERY TIME, does not make for interesting or good gameplay. it makes for boring, redundant gameplay where every one does the exact same thing at the start of each game. in addition, it also makes the game draw out for alot longer because it can take way longer to get an economy going if you have to conform to the standard BO, which no Under 3 Rule gurantees you will have to do. this results in games that could be over in 15 minutes taking 30 minutes or longer. as well, if you don't get your Fac first, you're DEAD on most maps - no matter what. at the very latest, you need to get it second. that's lame, no wonder Westwood gaves us 3 minutes to prevent that kind of nonsense from being shoved down the players' throat. Westwood wanted Emperor players to be creative, and have freedom in what order they build things and hence also what strategies they employ in the early game. that is a main reason for the Under 3 Rule.

2. so sickenenly unfair things like comp worms eating all of one guy's starting units (which btw happens ALL THE TIME!) don't determine a "Winner", which they DEFINITELY would do constantly with no Under 3 Rule.

3. and so the fundamental imbalances of starting game units do not get abused

to you harkdawg and all the other guys advocating to get rid of Westwood's Official Rule because you can't handle it, i have just one question: if you're so "good" at Emperor, what is your PROBLEM with waiting a measly 3 minutes until you attack?

[lowzeewee]

Is this rule in effect-An "Ex-Atriedes champion" versus a 0-point quickmatch noob? ::)

[Harkdawg]

Nav, some people like to attack fast, and there good at it, but abusing the 3 min rule allows u to rip em off. Now im not really a rusher but i see there point of view. If u want to play until 3 minutes then beat there rush!!!!

Beat it or dont play it. Quitting is not the answer. Just like u want to play in peace for 3 minutes they want to get it over with in 3 minutes.

Why should they waste huge amount of time with the game what they could end under 3. Think how many wins theyd get fast.

But u rip em off.

If u want to play more than 3 minutes, fight ure way there not hide behind a rule.

If everyone would be able to defeat the rush, whats the point in rushing? But until that its a nice fast way to end it, and they shoudnt be ripped from a win just cos U cant play early game.

[Navaros]

harkdawg, what *you're* telling me the answer HAS to be is: get a factory first, and build a ton of tier one units - or you're guranteed to lose. there is no STRATEGY, THOUGHT, or CREATIVITY in me being FORCED to do that. maybe i don't feel like building a fac first, or a ton of tier 1 units - because i have better things in mind. it doesn't take any skill to click the tier 1 unit icons endlessly along with TT & PP - there's no strategy there. however, there is strategy in me making the units and buildings that *I* want to make, and using the strategies that *I* want to use in order to beat my enemy. in allowing me to be creative; use ingenuity and thought in when i do things, and what units i do them with. sure, rushers may not like being told that they have to wait or risk an invalid game, but it's far worse (and morally incorrect!) to tell creative players: "you have to build in one exact way, or you will lose for sure".

i object to your phrase "ripping-off" people of their Wins. no one can ever have been "ripped-off" because the Under 3 Rule is an Official Westwood Rule which everyone who plays on WOL has already agreed to by accepting Emperor's EULA. so they didn't get "Ripped-off" out of anything: they chose to forfeit a chance at winning by taking an unnecessary risk (attacking under 3 and hoping the other player won't be smart enough to Quit)

[lowzeewee]

I think quitting under any time should be considered a lose. :)

[Ice_Cube]

Nav,

The under 3 rule is so you can quit the game if it is laggy or there are some initial problems. WW did not count on you abusing the rule and being a baby, cying if his base is annhiliated in 2 minutes. WTF is the point of playing a game if you are going to quit every time something goes wrong in the first 3 minutes. You say building the more units than the other player in a short space of time takes no skill? You fool. Quitting under 3 minutes because you just realised how outskilled you are is the only act that requires NO skill. I am so for the 30 second idea now, as that means that nav will stay out of the ladders.

[Harkdawg]

lol Nav, click couple of minutes of those tier 1 units and after that make whatever u want, be as creative as u want, be as strategyic as u want, think as much as u like.

Tier 1 units are ment for early game, so u should use them early in the game 2-3 minutes and once that is over, make minos/drones whatever u want.

U cant just say "oh no it takes nothing to click tier 1 units, hell i wont click them ill just quit under 3"

And who says u have to build fac first? ive built 2nd ref first no biggie, sometimes fremen camp or sards.

But even when i didnt build Fac first, i still managed to win without abuseing the 3 min.

Whats the big deal then Nav? U just dont want to make some tier 1 units? After uve survived couple of minutes u can start building anything u like anyways.

And if u dont want to use units from ure factory, whatever u build u gonna have to defeat hes tier 1 units with whatever u build, if u cant do that without quitting under 3 u just suck.

[anklbter8]

Hmmm... Ok, Nav plays Atriedes and Vil plays Atriedes. So where's the imbalance in that???

[AWACS]

theres no imbalace, its a fair fight. So can we stop ducking and start playing! :D

Also : someone FINALY used the Sirf! :D

[Gobalopper]

Just so everyone knows there will be a poll to decide any changes from the original WW rules.

[nemafakei]

"maybe i don't feel like building a fac first, or a ton of tier 1 units"

Hm. Maybe I don't feel like building military units early on! Perhaps I just want a horde of windtraps, refineries, and harvesters, before assembling an army! Why should I be forced into one build order?!

[Navaros]

"maybe i don't feel like building a fac first, or a ton of tier 1 units"

Hm. Maybe I don't feel like building military units early on! Perhaps I just want a horde of windtraps, refineries, and harvesters, before assembling an army! Why should I be forced into one build order?!

exactly. but the difference is, Westwood chose to allow me the freedom to not lose if i can be creative with that I build and still fend off the enemy with that *AFTER* 3 minutes. if you did what you stated here, then you're gonna pay for it at the 3 minute mark and lose for sure. But Westwood certainly did give you the freedom to make that choice to wait 3 minutes before you have to take a loss for that.

[Apollyon]

Those windtraps can be lethal...

[Harkdawg]

OMFG Nav!!!

Why should i be forced to what?

U dont want make anything that can shoot at enemie and u want to win?!?, omg now ure a real idiot, lmao.

Holy jesus, this is the biggest BS ive heard in a long time.

Good luck now, u deserve everything thats coming for u.

[SurlyPIG]

Well your rules sound great vilgent. IMO 30-60 seconds is perfect. I hope I can get emp working in XP...This sounds great, I want to see what it turns in to.

[zamboe]

Just so everyone knows there will be a poll to decide any changes from the original WW rules.

Is it really necessary ?, We already agree in having a max time of 1 min.

[Navaros]

Just so everyone knows there will be a poll to decide any changes from the original WW rules.

Is it really necessary ?, We already agree in having a max time of 1 min.

no we did not.

[zamboe]

This are Fed2k ladder rules not WOL ladder rules.