Caid Ivik Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Lower prices, that is true. Same was here before 1989. And also there was lower variability of things. It is nice to wait three months for computer (and our PMD-85 was like a Sinclair, in era of 286s) or four years for foreign, imperialistic Volkswagen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 "Talk about abusive labor practices!"Remember the population of China, and how many it can support at maximum potential. Remember the population of the US, and how many it can support at maximum potential at the same quality of life.Remember that in some parts of the world, people work over 12 hours a day for less than 10p (7 US cents) a week.Careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 They have lower wages, and lower prices. We have higher wages, and higher prices. Duh.lol!!! this is sooo misleading. Its almost like you are saying their lower prices have relative equivalency to us simply through cost of living differential.that is nonsensehttp://www.tanuki.org.uk/hk-china/village.jpg a nice little villiage in china. typical looking. and that is comparative to those in the US? ITs basically a non-argument that the minimum wage in the US buys a heck of a lot more (even if it costs more) than the minimum wage in CHina.Minimum wage per day 8 hour day: (approximate in USD)US = $45.00China = $1.60almost 30x difference.Now you people are actually expecting me to BELIEVE that a 30x difference in minimum wage (forget about "normal" income) is going to get a guy in China the same things as someone in the US? LOL! HA HA HA! C'mon, tell me something funnier. That would mean that a new Toyota 4-runner would cost a Chinese man $1,000.00. LOL. NOT!He probably sees a discount, but not a 30x discount. that is beyond insanity. Even a pair of Nikes- made in CHina, will still cost him the same amount of money, perhaps a few bucks less due to import fees. SOmeone in America on minimum wage can buy a car. Not a great car, but still can get one. Definately can't support a family, can't live in a nice home, but he'll be making 1000 bucks a month. That is enough to rent an apartment and pay the bills and have some pleasentries in life. He wont be able to indulge, but still can have a place to live, a car, tv, go see the movies on occasion, do some fun things. China man gets 32 bucks a month. And that is enough to buy/rent what again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 The discount will vary according to product. 30 times discount I could believe for the staple food... not for luxuries, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 And tell me, how much of your vaunted prosperity is really due to all those poor people in China and other parts of the world providing you with cheap labour?They stay poor because you NEED them to be poor, so you can stay rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 The discount will vary according to product. 30 times discount I could believe for the staple food... not for luxuries, though.which is what is sad and pathetic. all those billions of dollars china makes and it gets distributed to who...? where ...o where does it go?Communism in action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunenewt Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Russia? Please, its military is breaking down. The russian subs are ineffective, and stripped down. Its cities are full of poverty and prostitution, and the only thing they have for them is the oil. Once we lay our entire dependence off of oil, they will be nothing. Its common knowledge that in 2020 Russia will be the most powerful nation in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Russia? Please, its military is breaking down. The russian subs are ineffective, and stripped down. Its cities are full of poverty and prostitution, and the only thing they have for them is the oil. Once we lay our entire dependence off of oil, they will be nothing. Its common knowledge that in 2020 Russia will be the most powerful nation in the worldhmmmm....i didn't know that ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 emprworm, I was just making a note that you were leaning towards that they have lower wages, as an analogy to our country with those wages, in other words having those wages in our states, and I just said they have lower prices so it isn't as bad as it would be in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 emprworm, I was just making a note that you were leaning towards that they have lower wages, as an analogy to our country with those wages, in other words having those wages in our states, and I just said they have lower prices so it isn't as bad as it would be in here.fair enough. i can understand that. i think what I meant to say was that the Chinese people are (even comparatively) much more impoverished than those in the US. YET China is making BILLIONS of dollars in their booming economy. where is that money going? i thought communism taught distribution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Gotcha, well that's why the US gets rid of these communist countries, to help the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 well, where is that money going? have any ideas? because I dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Missile technology? Top-notch whores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigel6669 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 The money goes to the communist party, gangsters and the military war efford.The next superpower will not be a country but some "major multinational" that owns compagnies all over the world. Maybe the "rich jews" ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terror Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 he comes from belgium, not germany. And he has a point, as theoretically the jews ARE being part of the worlds super power right now, as they have a big influence in the US government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 YET China is making BILLIONS of dollars in their booming economy. where is that money going? i thought communism taught distributionIt does. Too bad the Chinese leaders only follow Maoism, which is about as communist as I am a Bush supporter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Harkonnen Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 oh sorry. I just cast a quick glance over the flag, I now see that it is belgian. sorry about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowzeewee Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Gotcha, well that's why the US gets rid of these communist countries, to help the people. .......lol..........US propaganda agAIN.....i think u will think twice about this if u were a chinese mainlanders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Harkonnen Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 nothing wrong with communism, it is just that it is very hard to make it work as it should :(but this thread was not meant to discuss that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 China is the obvious next answer to the status of world superpower, although if Europe ever completely united, they would certainly be one.I don't see the U.S. going anywhere though. We have survived many, many economic pitfalls and come away stronger than ever. This one will be no different.The reason for this is that every citizen in the U.S. considers themselves an American, not a Texan, Kansan, or New yorker. We can be centralized better than Europe, because we are all one people. (sure we have differences, but when it all boils down to it, we still have a solidarity that no other country can touch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 the chinese people are impoverished. they are set up for a fall. they have had a nice 10 year rise in their economy. it is foolhearty to think that will continue indefiately- especially considering the financial state of the majority of their people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 emprworm -- probably true. They seem to be the obvious choice as of right now with their military being so large and having nuclear weapons. I do agree that they are very unstable, and may fall from this list of prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terror Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 well let's say it like this: Europe and the USA are too expensive for most companies compared to countries like India and China, resulting in a massive movement of companies to these countries. China WILL grow substantially in the coming 10 years. USA will not be the worlds superpower much longer, that's one thing I CAN tell you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Gotcha, well that's why the US gets rid of these communist countries, to help the people. .......lol..........US propaganda agAIN.....i think u will think twice about this if u were a chinese mainlandersI didn't say that was the only reason, but helping the people would be a major reason. It's also a good reason because it gains more popularity among the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 well let's say it like this: Europe and the USA are too expensive for most companies compared to countries like India and China, resulting in a massive movement of companies to these countries. China WILL grow substantially in the coming 10 years. USA will not be the worlds superpower much longer, that's one thing I CAN tell youyou cant say this at all.you forget something key here: China's utter dependency upon western companies. China is making billions....uber billions off of US companies that are producing there. Personally, I hate it. China has poor labor practices and hideious minimum wages.Why are US companies there? Simply because China doesn't require them to pay their workers as much as in the US. Whos fault is that?Chinas fault. (sorry but it is the fault of China for allowing cheap labor on their own soil) If China raised their minimum wages and started treating their own people better, guess what? US companies would pull out. Capitalism does not require cheap labor. Capitalism simply uses cheap labor if its available. If its unavailable, then it doesn't use it simple as that. China's "strong" economy exists off the backs of its peasent workers who put in 40 hour workweeks for US companies on China's soil- of which the massive profits go partly back to the US, and partly to China.If the US companies pulled out of CHina, let there be no doubt- it would free fall. THis is why China will not be raising their standards for their poor people anytime soon. This is why china will continue to oppress their people.Personally, I loathe the fact that even one single US company is in China. I wish they would all pull out. I wish we would make a law forbidding any US company to function in China. BUt that would be a devastating foreign relations policy. And I'm sure several of my European friends in here would bash the US if they did that.Either the US pulls out of China or China is going to have to raise their standards for their workers.BOth are unlikely. But don't blame the US for China's awful work standards. that is china's fault 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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