Digital Guerrilla Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 What do you think determines the rise and fall of nations? What are the main factors in a nations longevity? In our lifetime we have seen the former Soviet Union dissolve into it's present state and we can see where other nations like India rise to be among major world powers in the 21st century. What does it take to keep a civilization running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 strong families Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneezer3 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 What do you think determines the rise and fall of nations? What are the main factors in a nations longevity? In our lifetime we have seen the former Soviet Union dissolve into it's present state and we can see where other nations like India rise to be among major world powers in the 21st century. What does it take to keep a civilization running? strong families is right to.But i'd say its Who's on the lords side.If that nation turns there back on god. Like USA has done. they have throne god outta schools. in fact i wonder if the only reson something like sep 11 din't happen only b/c weelped out the jews in the 1990's i think it was. <Eh maybe somebody will remember but i can't think of the bible verse that talks about people blessing the jews.Something like /baseiclyI will bless thee that bless thee and curse thee that curse theeCan't remember. been a while since i have seen it. >Anyway. you got your answer. a nation that turns there back on god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue1896 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 *watches another thread turn into a discussion about religion* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sadukar Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 What do you think determines the rise and fall of nations? What are the main factors in a nations longevity? In our lifetime we have seen the former Soviet Union dissolve into it's present state and we can see where other nations like India rise to be among major world powers in the 21st century. What does it take to keep a civilization running? strong families is right to.But i'd say its Who's on the lords side.If that nation turns there back on god. Like USA has done. they have throne god outta schools. in fact i wonder if the only reson something like sep 11 din't happen only b/c weelped out the jews in the 1990's i think it was. <Eh maybe somebody will remember but i can't think of the bible verse that talks about people blessing the jews.Something like /baseiclyI will bless thee that bless thee and curse thee that curse theeCan't remember. been a while since i have seen it. >Anyway. you got your answer. a nation that turns there back on god.I'd say god favours the nation whit the strongest armies, best leaders and most loyal people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Israel, what means God's nation, was never a big country. Just it's the last surviving ancient nation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Civilizations rise and fall due to many factors financial burden on the states, manufacturing and foreign trade, agricultural economy, pollution regulation, advancement of technology just to name a few. No matter the belief in God & how strong God did give human beings a mind to use for survival as a race their are alot of civilizations that believed and still fell because of things outside of religion. Morality and religious fervor and traditional values do play a role in a civilization but religion can not be the main factor IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 God doesn't get involved in our petty conflicts. The vast majority of civilizations rise and fall without any intervention from Him whatsoever.There is a theory (created by historian Carroll Quigley) that there are 7 stages in the development of a great powerful civilization:1. The etnogenesis (forming of the nation)2. The "gestation" (a period when the new nation is small and unimportant)3. The expansion4. The conflict (with other great civilizations)5. The "Universal Empire"6. The decadence7. The foreign invasionThe United States is currently at stage 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 That is almost like the ten stages (I agree with your seven stages). Some of these could also fit under the seven stages by Carroll Quigley.The first stage moves from bondage to spiritual faith. The second from spiritual faith to great courage. The third stage moves from great courage to liberty. The fourth stage moves from liberty to abundance. The fifth stage moves from abundance to selfishness. The sixth stage moves from selfishness to complacency. The seventh stage moves from complacency to apathy. The eighth stage moves from apathy to moral decay. The ninth stage moves from moral decay to dependence. And the tenth and last stage moves from dependence to bondage. Although I think Edric your post gives more definitive information for concrete thinkers of facts. Also here is something we can discuss further for example if all Chinese people on earth had to disappeared tomorrow obviously, Chinese civilization and culture would disappear with them. It is such an obvious principle which determines the creation and dissolution of civilizations basically once the people who create a certain society or civilization disappear, then that society or civilization will disappear with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sadukar Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 What do you think determines the rise and fall of nations? What are the main factors in a nations longevity? In our lifetime we have seen the former Soviet Union dissolve into it's present state and we can see where other nations like India rise to be among major world powers in the 21st century. What does it take to keep a civilization running? strong families is right to.But i'd say its Who's on the lords side.If that nation turns there back on god. Like USA has done. they have throne god outta schools. in fact i wonder if the only reson something like sep 11 din't happen only b/c weelped out the jews in the 1990's i think it was. <Eh maybe somebody will remember but i can't think of the bible verse that talks about people blessing the jews.Something like /baseiclyI will bless thee that bless thee and curse thee that curse theeCan't remember. been a while since i have seen it. >Anyway. you got your answer. a nation that turns there back on god.I'd say god favours the nation whit the strongest armies, best leaders and most loyal people.basicly what I ment to say was that, prospertiy, which some people think of as a sign of the favour from the gods, is a result of the sucsses of a nation, so the stronger a nation is, the more it seems that god/the gods favour it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneezer3 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 God doesn't get involved in our petty conflicts. The vast majority of civilizations rise and fall without any intervention from Him whatsoever.I hate to put it flat out like this. but your wrongWhat about noah ??? Let me read you a little bit of the bible.Gen "6:5 And God saw that wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of thoghts of his heart was only evil continually. "" Gen 8:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. "Then the flude happend Gen 6:17That might sound to you like it was made up. but i'l give you some verses up to the date up to now soon. but i regrete to say. it will be a while befor i can find them :-[ inless somebody here knows them already.I don't remember it but i remember what it means:"And in the Last days dangorus times shall come"This is those days in wich it is reffering to. don't you remember sept 11 ???basicly what I ment to say was that, prospertiy, which some people think of as a sign of the favour from the gods, is a result of the sucsses of a nation, so the stronger a nation is, the more it seems that god/the gods favour it.When i reffer to God i mean the God with the big G The God of adem & eve the God of Noah. The God The God that died on the cross for are sins. See john 3:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 I agree that the above stated factors are important, but most imported is IMO the support of the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 strong families is right to.But i'd say its Who's on the lords side.If that nation turns there back on god. Like USA has done. they have throne god outta schools. in fact i wonder if the only reson something like sep 11 din't happen only b/c weelped out the jews in the 1990's i think it was. <Eh maybe somebody will remember but i can't think of the bible verse that talks about people blessing the jews.Something like /baseiclyI will bless thee that bless thee and curse thee that curse theeCan't remember. been a while since i have seen it. >Anyway. you got your answer. a nation that turns there back on god.*cough* church nazi *cough*was that me?oh....perhaps it was...but i say it was...DUKELETO!!!!mahhaahaha*runs away* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Sneezer, I said "the vast majority", not all civilizations. God does sometimes get involved, but only when the situation is critical. For example, in the first books of the OT, the number of His followers was so low that He had to take action to save His religion from extinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneezer3 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Sneezer, I said "the vast majority", not all civilizations. God does sometimes get involved, but only when the situation is critical. For example, in the first books of the OT, the number of His followers was so low that He had to take action to save His religion from extinction.I misundetstood you then.I agree that the above stated factors are important, but most imported is IMO the support of the people.Maybe so. but like i said. i think that it depends on who's on the Lords side. If that Nation has turned there backs on god.But if they haven't & read there bibles often. and everthing. <Read bible witness prey everday Been saved etc etc.> Then they come under attack by another nation i think God would allow them to win. Or at lest not alow them to lose.Read/study Revelation. it talks about the last days Near the Rapture <Today> & after & befor Let me read to you what god says today to the luke-warm church. <Todays time of the church> ALOT of christians aren't witnessing like they should now days. and if you look at the % its right. what is it like 90%? anybody know ??? Well anyway. something else to think about for a so called "Inaccuret Outdated False Don't make any since etc etc book."Anyway heres the verse its in Revelation chapter 3 verses 14 thogh 22. but i'm not gonna read all of it.16" So then because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, i will spue thee out of my mouth. "17"Because thou sayest i am rich incrased with goods, and have need of nothing and knowest not that thou art wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked: "20 Behold, i stand at the door and knock i if any man hear my voice, and open the door i will come in to him, and sup with him and he with me.<If you have no idea what it is talking about go tohttp://www.chick.com/information/general/salvation.asp >Anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostHunter Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Strong military, freedom for all, lots of rights, plenty of jobs, good economy. These are the factors that can keep a nation going for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 1. This topic is NOT about Religion.2. If the Lord is taking sides and helping out good Christian nations then how come Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world? How come terrorist attacks happen?I'll tell you why: Because war and famine and poverty and hatred is all OUR doing. It is OUR mess and it is up to US to clean it up. Because the Lord has given us this world so that WE would take care of it and of ourselves, and not expect Him to solve the problems that WE create!In every war, God is always on the same side. The side of peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Strong military, freedom for all, lots of rights, plenty of jobs, good economy. These are the factors that can keep a nation going for a very long time.Ancient Egypt lasted for 3000 years without such freedom and rights. The Roman Empire lasted 1000 years without freedom and rights. Ancient China lasted... well, you get my point. Sadly, freedom is NOT a factor in the longevity or power of a nation.In fact, when it comes to war, dictatorships have a tendency to crush democracies. Always remember WW2, and always be prepared to prevent it from happening again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostHunter Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 A ha, but you are wrong, freedom issues are what which brings upon revolts that can turn a empire into dust by its own people. Now if they had all been less square minded and had freedom, some would of lived longer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 None of those Empires which I listed ever had any problems due to "freedom issues". In fact, neither did Nazi Germany. Or the Soviet Union. Resistance was futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostHunter Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Germany was in a economical crisis, they needed a leader, freedom or no and they got him....And I hate to say it but Hitler was smart, he gave the people what they promised for........Before sending them into the fields that is ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneezer3 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 1. This topic is NOT about Religion.2. If the Lord is taking sides and helping out good Christian nations then how come Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world? How come terrorist attacks happen?I'll tell you why: Because war and famine and poverty and hatred is all OUR doing. It is OUR mess and it is up to US to clean it up. Because the Lord has given us this world so that WE would take care of it and of ourselves, and not expect Him to solve the problems that WE create!In every war, God is always on the same side. The side of peace.1 Doh. shouldn't have posted about the church of today then. :-[ But when your talking about nations the topic comes up about god. but i went a little to far i guess. but i don't think useing bible verses would fall under that categlory. but i'l keep it about nations. but i think you should be able to give a bible anwer. maybe my logic is flawed but i don't see what it would hurt.2 Your wrong and i can show you how. but give me a little time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandro Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Money, money and more money. That is the only cause of the rise and fall of nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostHunter Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 LMFAO, Alex, some countries are backrupt as hell, poverty everywhere, yet all the people will fight madly for their contry, its not only money, the USA didnt kick Britans ass for a new country cause they wanted a newer cooler currency ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 One reason for the Civil War was currency, the South wanted each state to have its own currency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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