Muhammad Cartoons Censored

[Andrew]

I think this should have its own thread, since there is so much news and discussion around it.

Surprisingly my univeristy has published the cartoons in its student paper.

It has made national news as well, along with a St. Marys University prof posting the cartoons outside his office and being told to remove them.

P.E.I. student paper publishes cartoons of Prophet

The paper edition can be found here

OMG it seems that they took down the download of the pdf file. Lets start censoring everything!

I gotta pick up a print copy before they take them off campus.

So, cartoonists should be responsible for the actions of others?

EDIT:

Cadre issue can be downloaded at

http://cadre.upei.ca/files/cadrecurrentissue.pdf  (2mb pdf file)

if that gets taken down then

Mttempdir download

EDIT:

Seems the Cadre was the only paper in Canada to publish the cartoons. The president of UPEI has ordered the paper removed from campus.

And some Muslims at the St. Mary's university said they were going to "get" the professor who posted them outside his office.

EDIT-

Err, should this have been moved to General? It deals with politics and religion...

EDIT:

Apparently, this is the only publication in north america to publish the cartoons.

[Acriku]

Any muslims in here? I would be interested in why they would go to such lengths of violence to stop any images of Muhammed.

Ironically, their actions reveal the truth of the cartoon.

[veK]

funny thing is:

nobody is burning down embassys because of something like e.g. this:

http://www.mrtac.co.uk/JesusBRB.jpg

or the classic monty python movie "life of brian"...

I just don't get it how those (angry) muslims don't get it that they only disadvange themselves by their violent actions.

hey by the way. don't you think it's weird that it takes about 4 month since publishing of the cartoons until the knowledge has spread and the riots start - but it takes only few hours till big websites and blogs are attacked/hacked.

[Andrew]

A muslim scholar brought the cartoons to the middle east, which basically brought about the protests. So you can basically blame a Muslim for the problem.

Don't forget to take a survey to see when you become offended at a picture of Muhammad.

http://www.sayagain.co.uk/b3tapix/images/muslimsurvey.jpg

EDIT:

Re-veK as a non practicing Christian I am deeply offended at that image, and am willing to burn as many embassies which are not involved with the actual distribution of the image. ;)

[Andrew]

Printing of cartoon controversy at my university with video goodness!

P.E.I. student paper publishes cartoons of Prophet runtime 2:15

Note how the Muslims visiting the professor threaten him... (that takes place at another maritime university)

2 videos Link to the page that has link to videos.

[exatreide]

Mu' hammad

Mo' problems

[Andrew]

Did you watch Daily show? ;)

[Andrew]

The stupidity of some of the posts at weblogs.upei.ca are crazy.

You, as the editors and people responsible for this publication, have through your naive attempt at free speech, put many lives at risk.

I mean wtf, if a cartoon puts lives at risk, we should be looking at why Muslims are going to kill people over it.

Should I kill a Muslim who attacks Christianity? No. But it's ok for a Muslim to kill/riot if their religion is offended? And we should defend Muslims who are offended because if we don't, they are going to kill/threaten us?

Recent posts of the hot topics.

The media is attacking people who post the cartoons. Sigh. Let's sweep this under the rug for fear of retaliation. ::)

[stefanhendriks]

The problem is, current generations of people have never fought for their rights but where born with them. Their parents, or better said, grand-parents fought for their rights of freedom (world war, etc?). Now, when we must stand up for our own freedom, all kinds of voices rise up.

Lets put it this way:

- We have free speech

- We do allow 'cartoons and stuff' about christianity etc because WE are USED to such things. WE know how it is intented, and we know how to deal with it.

- Most non-western countries do NOT deal with these things like we do

The problem is; the joke was in Denmark, which is a western country and nobody cried for it. Until someone took it to one of the non-western countries , and all things get blown up.

When these muslims say that someone should be killed (ie, i read the one who made those cartoons should be killed. He who does that is promised 100k gold. By the Taliban and such..) they are nuts, living in the middle-age and they are not at the same level in society as we are. Other values to threat one another, which is a totally different subject.

Lets make an example:

Me and my brother have their own seperate rooms. I know my brother loves and is all for the band Queen. So i made a picture in MY room about Queen and showed it to my friends in MY room. Then one of my friends copied it and showed it to my brother. Now he is mad! Should i apologize? Would you?

Its basicly the same issue. And if muslims can't take it, don't watch it, and mind your own businiess. Else i would demand every western/christian country to demand apoligies from the muslim-countries who kick other religions around (Not only with  cartoons, but with kills!)...

Actualy its not worth my time, and yet i have written a post about it, Dang!

[Kiyouta]

I'm sick of all you know-it-alls thinking this is all hilarious and one big joke because Muslims appear to be stuck in the Stone Age. As you can damn well see its beyond a joke. Not so long ago Europe (or at least the Pope) decided to do the same thing and restrict free speech for critising the Catholic church or committing heresy (inquisition anyone?). The problem is that in many Islamic countries, the very consitition (in the case of Pakistan) makes poking fun or satirising the Prophet Muhammad illegal - punishable by death. Imagine if a family member of yours were murdered in a foreign country, but in that country murder was legal so the murderer goes unpunished. That's what it feels like to Muslims when they see the cartoon. Unfortunately its not all about a cartoon anymore though is it? The reaction from Muslims has stemed from a deep mistrust of Western nations. Not hard to see why. Take Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq and now Iran and Syria. I'm not siding with anyone because its all quite simply fucked up. You may laugh at how stupid their reactions are, but to be quite honest, who in their right mind would ever think Jesus is the Son of God? I mean, it's impossible. No? Well if you think Jesus is the Son of God, maybe its about time you respect the beliefs of others and shut up, because you clearly don't know any better. We don't all live in the Western hemisphere, and neither do we all live in the Eastern hemisphere. Both sides have to respect eachother's beliefs - West believes in free speech, can draw cartoons mocking holy prophets. East believes in the santity of holy prophets and in some cases allows for the restriction of speech to uphold this. That's how it stands. Hopefully this tension will die down sooner rather than later. Wouldn't make the iminent Iranian war any prettier.

Welcome to the post-September 11th World...

P.S. Why is this in General? I'm probably gonna get an idiotic reply now.

[veK]

actually I hate all kind of religions.

belief is okay, but these religious groups, churches, leaders and crap just annoys me. it's no matter what religion. I don't care if people believe in god a or god b or whatever else (universe, fast...) but why can't just everybody shut the f*** up and believe quiet for himself without annoying people who beleive in different things or nothing at all.

so I like any kind or ironic, sarcastic and maybe offending cartoons or images. no matter what they are making fun of.

and I don't care how pissed those people are over there, that's no cause for harming others and become violent.

[Acriku]

No one is disrespecting anybody's beliefs. It's the actions and reactions of Muslims that people are making fun of. And frankly, it should be made fun of and disrespected because we should have no patience for people who call for the deaths of people for a reward. It can be the pope asking for it, and I will make just as much ridicule about it. It just so happens that Muslims seem to be the ones doing it the most or at all.

[stefanhendriks]

if you can't take something that is meant as a joke, you should ignore it, simple. If you feel hurt by every kind of possible relationship with your religion, then you should stop 'believing'.

Also, what do the cartoons trying to point out? That religion is abused for terrorism. No wonder muhammad has weapons/bombs/etc. Because its symbolic.

Also, i don't think anybody is laughing about the reactions of the muslims. If you do think so, you should look further. Its more that people are suprised about the reactions, rather then finding it funny. I find it overreacting. You can already see terrorist organizations grabbing this event to use it for their own cause.

What i find frustrating is that people tell me NOT to find it overreacting. They tell ME what to think about it. So if half the western world do think its overreacting and odd. Then that is ALSO a rightful opinion to accept.

As for respect to religion, that is a total different story. What if you do not belief, have no religion? I find it hard to respect religions who threaten me to death if i don't be a muslim etc. When I hear the news that all Danish people should die for this cartoon, then it is not about religion and its surely not about the cartoon. YET it is USED to make it right to kill any Danish human being out there!

Respect is due! Not guarenteed! I can't remember any muslim country having churches.... while i do know western countries having moskee's... How do you explain that with your so called 'respect'?

[TMA_1]

I think it shows how insensitive westerners can be to other cultures.

Personally it seems to me that fundimentalist muslims and fundimentalist christians should share more in common. At least fundimentalist muslims are raising a voice, a bit too extreme, but someone needs to shut the arrogance of the west up.

[Phoenix]

my opinion:

Freedom of speech is allright. Freedom of press also.

But to make fun of someones believings or someone's "god" is just to moronic.

I have respect to all the people who believe in something. That they can dedicate their life to something they believe in. Thats just wonderfull isnt it?!

So i think that all those ppl who make or publish those photos are just dumb respectless loosers.

I bet if we make and publish cartoons about their dead parents, or about their deadly sick brother or sister those cartonists also get pissed because ppl laugh with something what is very dear to them...

If ppl believe in Mohammed, Jesus Christ, Shiva, Budha, the Howly Cow, or Coca Cola, good! I hope they get lucky in their lives and die in peace.

Ppl are free to choose in what they believe (normally the thing what the parents also believe..), and not that they have to believe one thing and die if they dont..

afterall, we are all humans, and must all live together on this small planet. No matter what you believe..

So I hope all this gets over very fast, because this can go terribly wrong.

[stefanhendriks]

Perhaps i am the only one who does not see it as humiliation...

[Phoenix]

humiliation might be a heavy word in this context..

maybe replace it with "make fun of"

[Khan]

Perhaps i am the only one who does not see it as humiliation...

Because you aren't a muslim.

What i find frustrating is that people tell me NOT to find it overreacting. They tell ME what to think about it. So if half the western world do think its overreacting and odd. Then that is ALSO a rightful opinion to accept.

However, you are also telling the muslims what to think you're saying they shouldn't be reacting the way they do, try looking at the other side.

[Jack Leaf]

Muslims are overreacting. They are! Anybody not thinking so needs heavy arguments to back up her/his opinions. It's entirely true that the Muslims are dragging behind in progress - they're like Catholic Christians in the Middle Ages except a few dozen times worse. While people against christianity have been persecuted throughout the history, it's not unfair to say that the Muslims should fill the 600 year long time gap of social evolution between them and "the western world."

They're ridiculous, it's simple. They're overreacting even more than, say, Mothers Against Marilyn Manson. This statement leads us into another example. Christianity is mocked, abused and ridiculed every day yet I don't know about any nation-wide protests against it. The muslims should simply grow up.

Also, don't you find it ironic that they accuse the cartoonists (and other people) for linking Islam to terrorism and rioting? So what do they do to protest against it? They start rioting and sending bomb threats.

[Andrew]

Take

http://humorink.com/portfolio/phplIv3Jm_w.jpg

for example.

I don't see rioting for that cartoon among the thousands of others (and talk shows make fun of priests molesting children lots).

Why hasn't Christianity declared a crusade? Maybe they are more tolerant?

There's also a bounty for the cartoonist who made the Muhammad cartoons. That's great. It definitely proves the cartoon where the cartoonist is drawing a cartoon in fear.

[gryphon]

The problem is; the joke was in Denmark, which is a western country and nobody cried for it. Until someone took it to one of the non-western countries , and all things get blown up.

Generally about the issue. You mean something like non of us (sorry most of us) have never been to those Arabian states, lived by their rules values and morals and still we can send soldiers that way and dictate our way of living upon them ?

If the cartoon really hurted someones feelings. Or a collective of feelings it's wrong. If it was intended that way or not. You know your best friend can call you a *lame-ass-son-of-**** and you don't care. Then a clerk in a store asks you to move your fat ass and you feel offended even if it's a smaller offence.

If you really think it's not worth it, then stop the cartoon. As it's not as important to you anyway then and it is to them. If the author can do that he is acting humanly in my opinion. Not because he is right. But because he is willing to listen to his fellow humans and adapt if he can to keep them out of harms way. If he can make creative cartoons he can make then about something else. If he can't do that he is just good in making lauwsy cartoons over a ethnical group. Which I think in any society shouldn't be praticed.

I agree with freedom of speech. But then doesn't imply you can call anyone whatever you like. Nor does that mean you can put a price on anyones head for that matter.

[Swordmaster_Duncan]

No one is disrespecting anybody's beliefs. It's the actions and reactions of Muslims that people are making fun of.

You cannot simply say that no-one is disrespecting anyones beliefs. You have no possible way of knowing that every single person feels that the cartoon doesn't disrespect their beliefs. There simply is not a set of rules that deem something disrespectful or respectful for all people. It is a matter of opinion and personal analysis.

I'll quote straight from Dune (BTW, RIP F Herbert, 20 years on):

"When strangers meet, great allowances should be made for differences of custom and training."

This is so true, and yet it never happens. Many times the opposite does (I think delibratly to hilite negative extreame behaviour to sway popular opinion). Just because you practice freedom of speach, It doesn't mean you are exempt from your opinions/actions.

Any muslims in here? I would be interested in why they would go to such lengths of violence to stop any images of Muhammed.

Ironically, their actions reveal the truth of the cartoon.

To answer your first question, I believe that it's the same reason that you would not use violence in a similar situation. You make a judgment about a stern issue, and you react to it, you (presumably) would not use violance to it as you have been raised differently. Not better and not worse. Just differently. You cannot rate peoples differing values as better or worse. You can only live by your own, and make accomidations for others'.

If you think that a reasonable reaction would be to boycot the paper, and you would expect to be able to do so, then unfortunatly you have to allow others to do the same. When opposing views clash, one has to take the upperhand (Muad'Dibs definition of Law anyone?). That is the trouble, one has to take preferance, and one party can be upset (to say the least) by this choice.

The actions of select extreame Muslims does not personify or project the morality of all other Muslims. I think that Religion can be manipulated (Missionaria Proctectiva...) with dire consequences, and this can be a problem. You could manipulate it to show one side and not the other, doctor passages to suit your needs, etc (I'm not saying that that it religions purpose). I think that this is what's happening in these religious terrorist activities.

In the right/wrong (:P) circumstances, I can be swayed to do things I wouldn't have done before. Many factors come into the decision.

It is certainly probable that there will be someone that can be swayed. When you have many people, and the right/wrong circumstances, groups will form.

It is in no way the religions fault. It's the (mis)use of it's power or any set of values for that matter.

I think that poking fun of religion is insanly stupid anyway, yet I have said snide remarks about it, to a friend, and I accept what he says back. It is childish to say that your not responsible for your actions (voiceing of opinions, drawing cartoons, ect). On the same token, I would meet critisism with my values, and if a clash occurs, one will most likely have to take priority. I would prefer to agree to disagree of course.

I find it a bit horrfying that people are saying flat out that what some Muslims are doing is wrong and they can't understand why. That is ignorance to the extreme. It's living in your own world and not aknowledging others, and demanding that people live by your standards.

Lets make an example:

Me and my brother have their own seperate rooms. I know my brother loves and is all for the band Queen. So i made a picture in MY room about Queen and showed it to my friends in MY room. Then one of my friends copied it and showed it to my brother. Now he is mad! Should i apologize? Would you?

Its basicly the same issue. And if muslims can't take it, don't watch it, and mind your own businiess. Else i would demand every western/christian country to demand apoligies from the muslim-countries who kick other religions around (Not only with  cartoons, but with kills!)...

About your example, that is a very selfish veiw of it. You show no compassion for your brothers feelings, and you don't aknowledge that your brother can feel differently towards it than you. No matter who you say anything to, if it offends someone, and they find out, they have every right to feel whatever they want! You cannot simply turn around and say that it's a giant mistake that they found out. That's the price of 'free speech'. You are accountable for your statements, no matter what you feel to be true.

They have every right to their actions, as do the people who dedicate their live to stop such actions. There is going to be a clash to determine what happens.

The main problem in this topic (the forum one, not the major one) is that people are trying to force others to live by what they say (or deny that the others has no merits) without accepting or understanding that to forcably make people at least look like they are doing what they say, they have to rule over them.

Wonderfully (to me), we live in an area where we can live somewhat harmoniously even with disagreements.

Everyone who says that they will defend free speach to the death, I say I defend free actions to the death. Law is just a pre-made choice by someone who rules over us. If you want to do whatever you want, fight for it, or prepare to pay the consequences. You cannot publish what you want, and then say that your exempt from the backlash because that's what you expect.

(Nice posts Kiyouta, TMA and Pheonix)

note: If this makes no sence I apologise, I will read it again when the sun is up tomorrow, and refine it.

[Dunenewt]

If the Muslims want to protest about it, they can go back to their own Islamic backwords countries and protest, because they're not going to impose their law over our countries.

[Swordmaster_Duncan]

I agree that they aren't imposing their law over western countries, but isn't banning them protesting rites banning free speach? Protest can be a healthy way to show that you oppose a ruling law, not that it must be changed. Of course then the ruling law decides their reaction to the protest...

[stefanhendriks]

I admit the example about my brother is not the best, but purely would i do care about what anyone feels? If i need to take into account everybody's feelings on how i say things i might just well shut up. As you said, in my view, i do not hurt anyone, therefor i do not think i am 'wrong'.

That is the same view as the muslims have in this case, they do think it is 'wrong' and they cannot share the view that it is not. So no matter how you put it, its never right.

I think free speech is a golden right, even when it might hurt someone. We do not prosecute someone who only says "i am gonna kill you!". Because it might hurt, threaten or do some emotional damage. In the end, they were words. And the law does not punish only because of a message, (weather its by words, a picture, etc).

I would say its right if muslims would protest because in their country a cartoon was published which is not 'allowed' or does not comply with their views. But i stronly disagree with anyone who wants to force their law in my own country. So i agree with the Danish, its their right to publish this. I bet i would not like anything anti-western stuff in Iran either, but yet we never seem to react like this as the muslims do in this case.