best subhouse?

[GUNWOUNDS]

something i noticed from jeff's post above.... i see where gunner says a fed can kill a sard in one blast.. that is false... it takes two fed blasts to kill a sard.. and the sard kills the fed in one shot.

mass sards kill mass feds.

fed snipers is another issue.

I will agree that fedykin subhouse is very versatile. Has alot of diff uses.

Sard elites are probably the most versatile single unit.

[jeff2429]

Not saying fremen are not useful, but most situations I find sards far superior.

[Spectral Paladin]

What is very easy to deal with is the single worm.The worm tactic I 'm talking about is summoning multiple worms and following them with your army. Now, that isn't easy to deal with. Even if you can kill all the worms before they can damage your army significantly, your units have still been distracted.

Yes I know that many fremen tactics can be countered. But it's an advantage they exist in the first place. For instance sards wouldn't be able to inflitrate base even if there are no turrets and/or scouts to prevent them from doing so. A single sard wouldn't be able to kill a group of mortars even if they were alone.

[jeff2429]

A single sard wouldn't be able to kill a group of mortars even if they were alone.

Lack of experience showing again... You can run either a imperial or elite sard right by them making their on mortor fire hit them thus killing them.  Elites run so quick you can run up to one of the mortor dudes, slice him, and run away in time before the mortor falls on him.

[jeff2429]

You also forget the enemy can have fremen also.  Stick 20 fremen snipers in front of the army and with their rapid firing they can take out multiple worms in no time.  Imperial sards kill worms pretty fast to so have them back up the fremen.

[Spectral Paladin]

Lack of experience showing again... You can run either a imperial or elite sard right by them making their on mortor fire hit them thus killing them.  Elites run so quick you can run up to one of the mortor dudes, slice him, and run away in time before the mortor falls on him.

Yes indeed but the fremen is stealthy. Which means the moment he becomes visible the mortars fire and are destined to die. While the sard can be seen from a mile away.

Plus, I don't think it is common strategy to stick 20 fremen snipers in front of the army unless you 're anticipating something.

[pearlmen]

when fremen over sardaukar, maybe it often does in  fog on or qm setting. when fog on, worm rider very useful.and when playing quick match, it was important killing 2tier units (mino kobra missile tank)so fedaykin used often.

but I guess at least sardaukr more useful than fremen in most ppl playing sett(expecially fog off n fisher... now

[jeff2429]

Plus, I don't think it is common strategy to stick 20 fremen snipers in front of the army unless you 're anticipating something.

You know common strategy? No I wouldn't keep them all infront of my army... I only would call them all up to the front if I saw you were trying to summon worms or had some already coming, and if I see your summoning worms I would send a few to snip your feds before they get worms.

[Anaconda]

With the right strategy, all subhouses are identical strong...

you can with the tleilaxu peeches easily attack open spicefields and contaminate the harvesters... or the stupid tleilaxe contaminators are sometimes good to stop infantry or stronger infantry-groups (like fremen sardaukar)... (but I don't use they often, they are weak and expensive and also slow. they only be usefull, if they are not less than 5)

The Ix infiltrator is sometimes good, by open basis and sometimes to attac units... you can also make a 3-string and a lot of damage... somtimes they are good to detected secret units in front of your base. The Ix Projector can be very usefull, if your enemys are strong and slow. With dexterity you can drive away from the enemy, make some replikas of the enemy and attact him. I like to clone Harkonnen Missile tank, ordos laser tank, harkonnen catapult sonic tank or artreides minotaurus or niab tank or a secret normal fremen. But the missile tank replika is the best, because one shot is often enough!

Sardaukars and fremen (fedaykin)are very strong in small groups. The niab tank is very strong. I think its the best subhouse-independet-unit...

[Warskum]

Fremen are the best in my opinion if used right.

I think the reason why so many people think sards are, is because non of the people who used to kick ass with fremen have kept playing, so the new generation has only seen sards own and they think sards are the best.

Playing with fremen requires skills and you need to spend lots of time managing them in order for them to be effectieve, sards however need less management, they are brute force, just put them in the right place in your army and attack, depending on circumstances some micro is needed, but not much.

The thing that makes playing with fremen hard is that you have to manage your normal army and the fremen at the same time, people prefer to use sards cuz those don't need as much management as fremen. Keep in mind, 3 fremen can destroy a mino/cobra, so if you distract those you can destroy several mino's/cobra's with only 3 fremen. Another thing that makes fremen strong is the fact that it takes one blow of 3 fremen to destroy a heavy vehicle, so you can whipe out several heavy vehicles very fast by using a handfull of fremen.

There are very cool tactics with fremen, especialy against atr, people don't know/use cuz it takes some time and micro.

Now bout entering someone's base...I have been playing for a few days now and haven't seen anyone protecting their base entrance with scouts/turrets, you can easily sneak in a few fremen and do some damage. You probably won't destroy his whole base, but you can easily take out the mcv and a few other buildings that are easily destroyed by feds, this will force your opponent to make a new mcv and replace a building or two which might get him killed cuz he will lose money and time.

[Lance_Leader]

not that i know much but isnt easier better? because if there easier to control that leaves you more time to do other things

[erjin999]

I think most people playing online now would agree with you, Leader of Lance.

[KALONY]

well....i would split such arguments in two parts...earlier games and later games.....in the beginning every1 is using the easier way, but later if the teams r equal, we will use the most tricky way imo

[Warskum]

not that i know much but isnt easier better? because if there easier to control that leaves you more time to do other things

Easier is not always better, the damage fremen can do make up for the time/attention they require if used well. To use fremen you need lots of micro, cuz you have to control your fremen and your army at the same time, but if you manage to do this you can easily do something with like 10 fremen that 30 sards couldnt have done.

Also keep in mind sards cost more.

Atm my micro sux, its like n00b micro, but when I get my skills back a bit I will show you guys some fremen love  ;D

[ps501]

Atm my micro sux, its like n00b micro, but when I get my skills back a bit I will show you guys some fremen love

[Warskum]

yea I am back, like I said here: http://dune2k.com/forum/index.php?topic=17789.0

So get online and kick my ass while I am still a noob :P

[DelugeD]

yea I am back, like I said here: http://dune2k.com/forum/index.php?topic=17789.0

So get online and kick my ass while I am still a noob :P

SO

not much has changed then  ;)

[Anaconda]

yes i think fremen are in smaller groups usefuller like sardaukars, but in big groups sardaukar can be stronger than big fremen groups. Elite Sardaukar can also attack flying objects... I like the fremen more like the sardaukar, but you must know that a fremen isn't much armored like other normal infantry. A sardaukar overcomes a complete minotaur-attack and some good kobrashoots... But I know, with the right strategie and expenditure of time fremen are more usefull!

I hate it, when a fedaykin is riding a worm and lost his grade points... its a codex bug!

[gunner154]

Don't use that fedaykin to ride the worm. Does the wormrider have veterancy? Even if it did, what purpose would it serve? Just use another fedaykin ;D

If I'm not wrong, a fedaykin can kill an imperial sardaukar elite in one blast by sneaking up on him. Someone correct me if this is untrue?

Why do you think I use fremen instead of sardaukar?

[Lance_Leader]

if u mean the blast gun thing (i think its only way fedakyin can attack?) then it cant cause it takes 2 to kill regular sarduakar

[eid]

there was something said about the fredaykin sneaking into your base>the turrets would start up?

actually i find that fredaykin deal with turrets without much problem, well, more effective vs tur than sard  elite are

and pearl in response to your question on the first page,

i believe all main house units have a specific use, no units are useless, and all main houses can hold theyre own quite well if played skillfuly, without the need for subhouses..

and  like its sayd here,,you can only choose 2...most choose frem/sard...what if..the opponent chose GON/IX

first of all a particular sub chosen ,may not be very effective even in the hands of a very skilled player

take leech/contaminator vs frem or sard? on theyre own? or even mixed?

but the worst disadvantage comes with sard elite/vs ordos.. ive sayd this before i know..but 1 sub unit(massed)

can deny 3 of ordos's main units..also out range air mines/ca/ and has very close to the range of kobra,making it

extremely dificult to set up a defensive attack.  its well known that mass dust/chem/atroop isnt that good vs mass mino/bikes or buzz/ctank..

everyone knows that lasers/deviators are the best choice  to deal with mass minos /tech tanks..or apcs to stop certain air strikes..they all have sheilds..  when a player uses 1 elite to kill a shield tank..he senses no loss at all really..but the ordos player cant just rely on kob/dust/chem coz all other houses main units outrange and are generally stronger..hence why ordos cant stand and fight at all times

best sub house? depends on what/sub the opponent is using+main house..otherwise GON seem to be a bit too much for any house to deal with with anything less than turret spam and defensive closed base formations

as far as price goes, true 2000/2000 for upgrade..but 1 or 2 tanks can be very harrasing to your refs attak tele tele attak tele....cant chase with laser either..they too fast. only needs 4-5 hits to destroy anything really

otherwise the imperial sardurkar are the obvious 'stand up fight' house of choice

[Lance_Leader]

i havent seen the big deal with GON yet...i mean no one uses them...and against computer like in last campign (excuse spelling) mission there everywhere and not much of a problem....i know computers are easy to beat but they dont seem to good...even though they can teleport