How many Emp players are going to play Generations

[Acriku]

Soul, your server is probably a computer with good parts, right? (Unless you are extremely rich...)

Well the developers of the game, DG for example, have to pay for EXTREMELY expensive parts to make the expensive servers - which is probably not even close to one (EQ has 42!). You need serious servers to keep the amount of people expected to be coming online in the game and maintaining it. I'm not talking about very good computers that are just their to let you join and play - I'm talking about big expensive servers that ARE the game, the software on your computer is the tip of the iceberg, and the rest of the iceberg is on the servers.

Another point I forgot is bandwith. It isn't free - and to keep the people in the game it will cost the developers TONS of money - and how would they pay that? Many developers have gone broke because they wanted to "look out for the people". Well this cost them their jobs.  

And to keep the game lag free all day every day - and at the same time holding tens of thousands of people? This will cost them millions of dollars, probably hundreds of thousands every month. Not to mention the cost to actually make the game would cost millions, so you are looking at a big bill to pay! So, then I hope you think now that the few dollars a month or year is very reasonable.

[Taqwa11]

"A few dollars a month or a year."  Hmmm, do you really think those few dollars wouldn't rise and rise and rise?  Greed runs the world.  Now, as I said, for me to pay to play, the pay-per-play games would have to be so much better than anything else out there that I just couldn't resist.  So far, that hasn't happened.  Someday, just like in science fiction, they will come up with a game so real that it feels like you are really there.  You'll be there shooting the bad guys, accomplishing the dangerous mission, going to bed with the hot babe--and it will all be so real that it will completely eradicate the drug trade for all but those who can't afford that kind of entertainment.  Probably none of us will be alive then, but those who are will gladly pay to "play" in a game so real that it is an escape from life.  Movies like The Matrix come to mind.  The industry is always advancing at an incredible rate, so things will just get more and more realistic, and more and more immersive.  But today, we don't need to pay to play, and no one has come out with anything yet that would make me fork out my 60+ dollars for a game and then pay a monthly fee to play it.  If the gaming industry comes up with something pay-per-play I just can't resist because it can't be matched by anything else, then yes I'll probably open my wallet.  But that hasn't happened yet, and I don't think Dune Generations is going to be that kind of irresistible pay-per-play game.

[Acriku]

The way I see it is, it is imperative the developers do this to pay for their massively expensive and big game, or they go broke and no servers to play on. So, if you think they don't need to ( ::)) then don't play.

[nampigai]

did someone say Jihad?

well you are right bout the greed part but things aren't free I have to pay for my electrical installations AND the power company. I have to pay for my car AND gas AND taxes to use the roads etc etc etc.. stop your whining nothing comes for free in this world you should have learned that by now,  

[Elite47]

lol ok you guys just go ahead and pay( ::)  )to play a game you already payed for... I'll sit back with a fat wad of cash and laugh at you.

[DjCiD]

and from what i hear Earth and Beyond is online game only and pay to play... leave it to WW to not only stick you with the price of the game you cant even play it unless you pay for online time...  I just got the confirmation for the E&B beta test so if it wets my whistle then i might get the full version. But hey if its as good as Dune Generations looks to be, then i may have to look into it.

[Navaros]

did someone say Jihad?

well you are right bout the greed part but things aren't free I have to pay for my electrical installations AND the power company. I have to pay for my car AND gas AND taxes to use the roads etc etc etc.. stop your whining nothing comes for free in this world you should have learned that by now,

[nampigai]

let me guess you're amish right?

As I said before we live in a world where nothing comes for free. you're little world of free stuff is an utopia.

[Mahdi]

I'm not getting in this arguement (mostly because I wouldn't pay a monthly fee to play a game either, unless I somehow received a large amount of money) but I thought this should be said:

In addition to having to keep servers, bandwith, and the other techncal stuff going for DG, the people behind the game are also going to be continually working on the game as it is being played.  They are controling all the NPC factions, playing literally thousands of different characters, writing and re-writing the story line as it happens, creating new missions as the game goes on, comparing the scores of every person playing to determine who gets to control Dune, and on top of that playing houses.

They will probably be putting in hundreds or hours a month into this game after it is made and sold, and paying for all the people they are employing to play the game and keep this game evolving.

Like I said above, I don't like monthly payments, I just thought that should be brought up.   Personally, I don't see it any different than having to pay a monthly fee for cable or a satelite dish, or for certain sports you have to pay for every week.

[DjCiD]

now thats a job i'd like to have! palying video games (maybe muzak is the key my young padiwan ;D) but i bet what they do can get boring, cept maybe playing as houses part.  But still a job I'd like... 2nd in line only to the one as the guy passing the huka tube at the Hash bar  :O  :-/ :P  ;D  (i always had in mind a cheech and chong pair sitting behind the bar blowing guns thru the tubes)

[Soul_-_Reaver]

To reply to Acriku:

 The servers i run are not just good computers, they are pure dedicated servers, and before you despute what i say let me update you on my qualifications, Network+, CCIE and MCSE, So i know about networking and systems in avid detail. At the moment i am only running 1 game server for SOF2 and it stands on a 4MB line(that's Bytes not bits.. B=Byte, b=bit).

These servers and line are with NSM Services in Greenwich London.

Let me now illustrate the point i was making with the similarity to petrol...

Petrol is needed, thus the companies capitalised on us. They started a campaign and threw us a hook, we took the bait again and again and the price skyrocketed.

For a real eye opener in this 'Economic War' and to understand how people have been duped goto this link and read the e-mail i recieved...

http://www.team-uki.co.uk/reaver/petrol.txt

If gamers give in to this campaign they are enforcing then the cost will rise and rise and rise until only the rich can play.

The MAIN POINT however is:

You will not be able to afford to play multiple games!!!

Hardcore Gamers will cease to exist.

Prices will rise.

Only the rich can play.

Ask yourself this.. Who were games initially aimed at? -> Kids... now kids are the biggest buyers of games.. how are parents going to be able to afford to pay for all these games for their kids and the bills etc..

Sure.. I will cope, i'm a computer engineer so if needed i can rake money in, but what about all those family's where the dad is a milkman and the mum works at the local shop etc? Honest trades but they don't pay well.

Stop and think what this is doing to our economy.

It's getting to the point only the rich can do anything worthwhile.. University's are for the rich, Games are gonna be for the rich, Cars will be for the rich. What about the poor? people undermine those who do smaller jobs such as farming and building etc.. where would the rest of us be without them? The corporates in our society are alienating the poor more and more every day, i swear due to pig headed leaders the world might see some civil war starting in the future, the rich vs. the poor. Some might say i am going over the top now, but sit back and think.. am i?

Some people like to use the phrase "Live for the moment", They don't worry about the future, but then again who wins a game of chess? The person who can see the most moves ahead to lure his enemy into a false sence of security. Don't think about what this campaign will do to start with.. think about what will happen if it works.. think about the chain reaction that will occur. It's common sence...

[Gigaettin]

i'll have a go, if its good i'll continue, if its not i wont, although it sounds really good, im sick of playin games that dont last, im willing to pay for a game that will last a long time

[Gobalopper]

Here is the pricing plan for EverQuest, notice its not the prices Navaros quoted, I doubt he even bothered to check, and it isn't that bad considering the cost of going to the movies these days.

* 1 Month - $12.95

* 3 Months - $35.85

* 6 Months - $65.70

Face it not everyone is attracted to online games so I highly doubt it that gaming will be something only the rich can do. It's just like anything else in life, if you don't like it you don't pay for it, they can't keep making these games if there aren't people buying them.

And the bandwidth/server charges aren't the only costs involved. Unlike other games where the teams go on to make other games once an online game is finished they still have to pay all those people to keep the storyline going.

And there are games that allow you to run your own server, I think Neverwinter Nights lets you, but with that you have to write the story yourself.

Some of you are making this seem like online gaming will be the end of the world. ::)

[gryphon]

I don't know why but some thing in me whant's to join this topic ::)

There are some German internet hosters that will host your site for 1 to 5 euro a month.

A good one asks about 2 Euro a month for the domein registration, or about 50 Euro a year when you own the domain name.

Combined with hosting it'll cost about 200 to 300 Euro a year. But that are the expencieve good ones.

You can have a web hosting company for 50 Euro's a year.

[ just to show the different prices of web and serverhosting company's :) ]

And about paying for online gaming, if the support and service is good I will pay for online gaming, but just for the games I want to play. In general I would suggest there should be a trail period so you can find out if the game is something for you and the servers really do their job.

A "dedicated server" doesn't mean mutch, it can be a 3.000 Euro Dell. Or an 60.000 Euro RAID server with fiberoptic harddrives and fiberoptic "direct backbone connection".

And for your site, [ http://www.team-uki.co.uk ] according to me it runs under Red Hat Linux, an Apache 1.3.3 webserver . .. ::)

You might whan't to look at the server I have at home [ yes at home ], the sceenshot has been edited so some security features arn't visible but the main point shoud be visible. And I can asshure you, the price of the entire software packadge is more then that Dell server... ..

[gryphon]

And in this case, just one game you have to pay for is axceptable. There are people who have to play it, monitor it constantly. They have to do this so we can play it. It isn't simply monitoring.

There are still a lot of games you don't have to pay for inorder to play online. Quite a lot exually.

But then didn't non of you see a obvious point .. . no matter if the game is free to play online .. you have to pay inorder to get online. So all of you who say they arn't going to pay to play the game online, well I don't like to say it, but you ARE paying to play online. You are paying for any game you play online.

But most of all, it's not the end of our economy. If you don't want to pay, you don't.

You don't have to play ..

[Taqwa11]

Well, actually you don't have to pay anything to use the internet--there are free internet providers, but they come with irritating ads.

[gryphon]

I don't know if it's the same in all parts of the world, but for the standerd TV channels you pay a subscription fee, either to the government or to your cable company.

And free internet isn't that free [ also in the parts I know, there can be exeptions ], you have to pay for the phone costs. And most free internet providers recieve a percentage of that.

[Razorox]

wow this seems to be a hot topic. I would just like to ask if anyone knows any games that will have an on-line playing fee other than EverQuest and World of WarCraft (I would assume EverQuest II will aswell)

I still think it is a pathetic attempt by greedy companies to turn games into an arcade type thing! BTW has anyone looked at the price of WarCraft III? Holy hell is it expensive! The basic version is $89.99 canadian ($59.99 american) that is the most expensive non-collectors edition game i have seen to date. At least there isn't online fee though. I think Blizzard did the right thing in raising the purchase price instead of charging a monthly fee for WCIII. It's kind of like taxes, everybody pays the extra, but only a few benefit. In this case the people who only wanted single player would suffer, while the multiplayer addicts would benefit.

If I wanted a game that was pay-per-play I probably wouldn't get it, simply because I don't have a credit card, therefore would be unable to pay and my parents would never let me use theirs. This will be a big hit to those short-sighted companies who only see dollar signs flashing in front of their eyes.

I CAN GUARANTEE YOU NOT HALF AS MANY PEOPLE WILL BUY THE GAME IF IT COSTS A MONTHLY FEE TO PLAY IT, THEREFORE THE GAME COMPANY WOULD BE LOSING MONEY ANYWAY BECAUSE NOT AS MUCH PROFIT WOULD BE MADE OFF THE INITIAL PURCHASE PRICE, AND THE FEW PEOPLE WHO DO PAY-TO-PLAY EACH MONTH WILL SOON REALIZE IT IS NOT WORTH SHELLING OUT THE MONEY FOR A GAME THAT HAS SUCH A LIMITED NUMBER OF PLAYERS, WHICH COMPROMISES THE QUALITY OF THE GAME, AND THE GAME WILL BE ABANDONED ALL TOGETHER.

The funny thing is I am unable to pay the monthly fee, even if they charge 5 cents or 50 dollars, I can't pay it end of story! I can't believe how ignorantly short-sighted these game companies are getting...stupid clones of bill gates....GGGRRRRRR

(*excuse my lack of organization, i had so many thoughts, i just slapped them down one after another.)

[Acriku]

So basically you are whining that you can't get a friggin job and pay from your own hard-earned money? 60$(US) is the regular price for brand-new games, what's your point? Stop taking your anger at the companies that make great games and make you pay to play only to keep them in business - and they actually lose money from people spending a little too much time online. Sorry if this is mean, but it's late and I saw your post at the wrong time. Cheerio Chap!

[Navaros]

wow this seems to be a hot topic. I would just like to ask if anyone knows any games that will have an on-line playing fee other than EverQuest and World of WarCraft (I would assume EverQuest II will aswell)

I still think it is a pathetic attempt by greedy companies to turn games into an arcade type thing! BTW has anyone looked at the price of WarCraft III? Holy hell is it expensive! The basic version is $89.99 canadian ($59.99 american) that is the most expensive non-collectors edition game i have seen to date. At least there isn't online fee though. I think Blizzard did the right thing in raising the purchase price instead of charging a monthly fee for WCIII. It's kind of like taxes, everybody pays the extra, but only a few benefit. In this case the people who only wanted single player would suffer, while the multiplayer addicts would benefit.

If I wanted a game that was pay-per-play I probably wouldn't get it, simply because I don't have a credit card, therefore would be unable to pay and my parents would never let me use theirs. This will be a big hit to those short-sighted companies who only see dollar signs flashing in front of their eyes.

I CAN GUARANTEE YOU NOT HALF AS MANY PEOPLE WILL BUY THE GAME IF IT COSTS A MONTHLY FEE TO PLAY IT, THEREFORE THE GAME COMPANY WOULD BE LOSING MONEY ANYWAY BECAUSE NOT AS MUCH PROFIT WOULD BE MADE OFF THE INITIAL PURCHASE PRICE, AND THE FEW PEOPLE WHO DO PAY-TO-PLAY EACH MONTH WILL SOON REALIZE IT IS NOT WORTH SHELLING OUT THE MONEY FOR A GAME THAT HAS SUCH A LIMITED NUMBER OF PLAYERS, WHICH COMPROMISES THE QUALITY OF THE GAME, AND THE GAME WILL BE ABANDONED ALL TOGETHER.

The funny thing is I am unable to pay the monthly fee, even if they charge 5 cents or 50 dollars, I can't pay it end of story! I can't believe how ignorantly short-sighted these game companies are getting...stupid clones of bill gates....GGGRRRRRR

(*excuse my lack of organization, i had so many thoughts, i just slapped them down one after another.)

{No credit card eh lil buddy?   I have credit cards, oh btw wanna join my clan? hehehehehehe}  

Back to the topic:

Yes, there is a very disturbing number of other games following in the footsteps of EverQuest.   I can think of about 5 aside from EQ off the top of my head, most of which have already been released, but as I believe in the saying: "any publicity is good publicity" I will not brand the games by citing them by name.

Not all gamers are smart, educated, informed, and utterly brilliant, like us Emperor players.  The people who stuck with Emperor are, for the most part, members of the upper echelon of intellectuals on this planet, hence that is why we, and not the idiotic masses, appreciate Emperor.

What should frighten us is that unfortunately there *are* huge masses of blithering idiots who will flock to MMORPG's and happily be extorted each and every month by having to pay just to play a game that they have already paid top-dollar for.

Spread the word.   I am sure most Emperor players have friends who are dumber than themselves.  Tell all your dumb friends and family members.   Make sure they understand the horrors to come if game makers are allowed to get away with this form of extortion.

Think of the monopoly MicroSoft has over the PC OS market.  Do you *like* having to be FORCED to upgrade your OS every few years?   Being *forced* to buy your software from one company, and having no viable alternative (Linux is *not* a viable alternative for PC game players, unfortunately), and being forced to have live with whatever changes MicroSoft sees fit to make to the features and functionality of your OS?  Being forced to have software permanently stuck on your computer unless you are a Registry Expert and can remove it by key numbers only (as is the case with MS Internet Explorer, and probably "Windows Messenger" in XP which comes pre-loaded even though no one asked you if you wanted it on your computer or not)?!   This is what MicroSoft has done to your PC.   You have NO choice about it.     Do you want PC games to turn out the same way???  NO choice for the customer.   Pay just to play every month, even after you have already bought the game, or play nothing.  

Convince the dumb and ignorant by any means necessary. Pictures, diagrams, holograms, blueprints, you name it.  

Do not let having to pay monthly just to play your PC games became a normal thing.   If you do, in 5 years *every* PC game you buy may force you to pay each month just to play it.      

[SurlyPIG]

I really like what nav and SR said in reference to petrol/oil/gasoline, so I think I'll add a bit...

The miraculas gasoline replacement Nav is talking about is a modification on chemicals extracted from plants.  Take Brazil for examle.  On average, the nation is WAY too poor to afford to buy oil from the big greedy companies that bought rights to them, so they use a suitable replacement.  What is it?  Sugar cane gas.  Yeah, that's right, a fuel made from sugar cane.  The fuel is MUCH less expensive than gasoline, is nearly as efficient and even pollutes less since it's more natural.

Granted, North American and European countries can't exactly plant a bit o' sugar cane and expect it to grow, but there's an alternitave.  A similar substance can be extracted from WHEAT.  Yeah, that's right, wheat.

But as Nav said, the big oil companies bought the rights to this innovation so nobody can use it without their contracted consent and they'd have to pay royalties as well.  Now how fair is that?  The big oil companies aren't even making the stuff.

This "wheat gas" wouldn't be compatable with gasoline combustion engines, so engine replacements would be necessary.  Consequently, as with any change brought by invention or innovation, there would be a bad transition period where people in the oil industry would lose their jobs, and there would be rippling economic effects, but the end result would be a MUCH more positive picture.

So what's holding back this miraculasly simple innovation?  Why, the big greedy oil companies of course!  The ones that bought the patents and rights to it!  They don't want to see power slip out of their hands, so they prevent this new industry from forming.  That's exaclty what they DON'T want to happen.  They'd hate having the power back in the hands of wheat farmers.  That would be taking a step backwards, for them.

Anyway (got off topic), fortuneately, gamers have a choice.  They can buy pay-to-play games, buy free online games, but single player games, or not buy games at all.  I don't think this trend will take over the market like petrolium, so I dont see a reason to stress over it.

[gryphon]

"Not all gamers are smart, educated, informed, and utterly brilliant, like us Emperor players.  The people who stuck with Emperor are, for the most part, members of the upper echelon of intellectuals on this planet, hence that is why we, and not the idiotic masses, appreciate Emperor."

Well, I'm certainly glad you know your position in society ::)

"What should frighten us is that unfortunately there *are* huge masses of blithering idiots who will flock to MMORPG's and happily be extorted each and every month by having to pay just to play a game that they have already paid top-dollar for."

Why should this frighten you ? It's our desission and most of all our money, and you'r not goint to say and deside how I spend my money.

"Being forced to have software permanently stuck on your computer unless you are a Registry Expert and can remove it by key numbers . . "

I thought you belonged to one of the intellectuals on this planet, so that shouldn't be a problem for you then ::)

'Pay just to play every month, even after you have already bought the game, or play nothing."

You bought the software, not the online services. And your right, you don't have to pay or even buy the game if you'r not willing to pay a monthly fee for playing online. It's not the MS OS, you CAN "NOT-BUY" Dune Generations, you don't have to if you don't like to pay for it.

The fact that you have to pay is also a good way to keep "uninterested players", "cheaters" and other "unwanted" players of the net and not playing the game.

And the oil comparision, well mayby another. You have cars and Lamborghini's. If you can't afford a Lamborghini you buy a "normal" car. Don't complain that a Lamborghini isn't good, is totally crap and that one day the ritch will take over the car market and you won't be able to buy a simple Audi.

The topic was about the question "if you are or are not going to play", not "an economical and insulting argument about being able and willing to pay for onlne gaming".

There are people who whant to pay, and who don't. And there are people who are good in playing it and will last long and people who will disapear fast because they're simply not good enough.

And besides the fact that the developers and players of Dune generations have to keep making costs and keep playing and working on the game 24-7 [ becouse the players whan't a game that's on 24-7, monitored for that time and making shure no one is cheating, else you could aks you'r money back ;D ] means they are making costs, you also create a "barrier for wanted and unwanted players".

If you don't whant to pay, then don't buy the game [ will safe you money ] and don't play it. But don't ignore the fact that there are people who are capable and willing to pay for playing it online. And if YOU dont whant to, then don't. You don't have to you know.

[Acriku]

Navaros, I think you know what I am going to say about your proposed position in your "society".

And what I have to say about your comments on MS. OF COURSE! DUH! That's how MS got so big! They used great marketing and business tactics - force a browser on your OS that millions already have = total potential control of the internet! It's brilliant! Now that people have figured this out, they are quite mad.

If you don't want something "forced" onto your computer, THEN DON'T BUY IT. You buy it, then whine all day long on what's wrong with it. Poor boy - no other options to go to  :'( Actually there are, it's called not playing at all. Don't like it, don't buy it! No one has forced you to buy it, so now you see how I see it.

[Babylon]

"The fact that you have to pay is also a good way to keep "uninterested players", "cheaters" and other "unwanted" players of the net and not playing the game."

True, true!

I admit I won't pay money to play a dozen online games. But I will pay money to play 1 online game. And from the looks of it, DG will be the one.

I think I see the problem here. Next to work, eating, sleeping and my girlfriend I only have time to play 1 online game. So the cost stay low. The only people who can play a dozen (or more) online games are either workless (so no, or low income and can't afford to pay for a dozen pay-to-play online games) or people that can change the course of time so that they can put 96 hours in 1 day (but if you can do that, you're not interested in earthly games ;))

So I don't see the problem, if you work you have just enough time for 1 game and you can pay for it.

Problem solved...?

Ehrm if someone is offended, considered it a joke ;)

[Soul_-_Reaver]

Personally i'm just peeved at the concept because it means it's gonna cost a bomb for my habbits... I generally play a different game every day, sometimes several a day, It's ok for those of you who only really play one game, but if i am going to have to pay a monthly fee for every single game i want to play then geez! It's gonna ruin me. I'm gonna have to stop my gaming habbits.

Why am i so upset at having to cut down many games?

Well the reason is because i am an up and coming game designer, i have 7 fully documented game designs along with artwork and 3d model grids and even fully documented and sketched and planned levels and storylines and many algorythms for certain events, for various forms of physics needed to be used for object behaviour etc...

Now as a game designer.. To be successfull you need to know the public and what they want, you have to experiance all the games, you have to be critical of everything. Now i really can see several gaping holes in the gaming scene and i have designed new games, i have 2 games that will even spawn 2 new genres if succesfull... 'IF'...

So if i can't continue to play loads and loads of games, then i'm not gonna get my research into the field and see these gaps,  :'(

I just hope i can do a good enough job. Also i hope that their campaigns will fail, i don't even like the concept of charging the players of my future games for monthly use. What do i want out of my games? I want the users to be able to pick up the game and relax and have fun, i want my games to be true to the meaning, true to the essence of gaming, i just hope i can make that differance.