Sandworms

[Alexander_Ordos]

Water is critical for those organisms, that have water as their basical structure and since the Worms are made of waterless cells, they don't need the water ;)

[nemafakei]

I've been thinking about the possibility of Worms functioning with no water as a solutor, but with something hydrocarbon-based, though I can't suggest a specific - I'm not a chemist. BP would be a bit of a problem, though.

[Vanguard3000]

Keep in mind the sandworms may not be funcioning entirely without water. Their gullets may be able to process water in small amounts, while it is poison to their hides. I would guess there would be tiny amounts of water in the sand plankton.

[Alexander_Ordos]

Water in the sand :-? An interesting sugestion, I thought water was beneath the sand in the dessert :-

[Vanguard3000]

I said "water in the sand plankton", not in the sand itself.

[Exo Etherial]

What do worms eat? And don't say, "Anything it wants."

I mean worms are big and apparently they live very long, can move very fast,and are ANEROBIC life forms right? So, what did they eat before people infested their planet? How did they get so large to begin with if Arrakkis is nothing but endless dune broken by rock and dust bowls. All that size requires food, yes? All that speed requires even more food. And because they are anerobic, excreting oxygen, thier metabolic processes can't be very efficient, right?

This leads me to think that the worms are primarily strain-feeders. Keeping their mouths open, using ther many teeth to strain nutrients from the sand. Deep under the sand where a possible subterranean ecology grows oblivious to the human drama above. Of course this would have to make the worms open ended at the tail and nothing but giant tubes with teeth and an attraction to pulsing base beats.

Am I wrong? I mena I have only seen the front-end of a Worm, and it's teeth strike me as more baleenish than those of a predator...

[lowzeewee]

I think the sandworms eat things that have movement energy....that's why they don't eat fremen because fremens are always moving stealthily,but I m not sure if they eat their own species :)

[Digital Guerrilla]

They eat the plankton in the desert sands.

[Egeides]

And they have, if I remember well, a way to get energy from some non-biological stuff... don't ask what, it's been some time since I read.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I think there is another thread about this subject, which we just discussed.

[Caid Ivik]

Maybe they have energy from sand, burned by solar energy. I was talking with one member of Master of Orion staff, who told his Silicoid race (which eats rocks) was inspired by it.

[Exo Etherial]

You mean the Lithorvoric race in MOO? Yeah, a theorhetical way that silicon life might eat is by taking in certain minerals for chemical reactions. Or by ingesting nuclear matierials and using that energy in thier hypothetical metabolisms.

But if worms ingest sand burned by the sun and somehow extract energy via that way, that sand would have to have either thermo absorbant qualities, or some sort of solar conversion quality. Meaning it would have to be actually more than just your average sand.

I'm kinda pleased that the thread is doing moderately well by the way. ;D

[Andrew]

All your answers should be found HERE.

Or at least discussed.

[Khan]

Looks like I'm one step ahead of you. Hans wins again!!! ;D

[Exo Etherial]

Ah-hah, yeah so I see. The thread somewhat supports strain feeder hypothesis, but the dilemma of water use and the obscene amounts of food-energy needed still crop up.

So the worms are carbon based, huh? Well all carbon-based life forms require water. Water is the primary medium through which nutrients can be most efficiently transmitted through any multi-celled organism. A type of endo/exo-cellular transfer system could have evolved. Each cell itself could pass on nutrients to another by having tiny channels through each cell or on the surface of them. However, such a system would be needlessly complicated, and only serve to make the worm further fuel inefficient. From the thread these things have to constantly move? Without water or oxygen I see constant movement being a counter productive evolutionary adaptation. Unless of course they start producing a type of natural anti-freeze after the trout phase in their life. A non-water fluid that is nutrient soluble maybe

The problem of food might be solved in the primary bio-layer were below ground. In between juts of rock above the sand there might be great subterranean valleys. Most of which filled with a kind of plankton/bacteria rich muck. It would, of course, be a limited resource, and competed over. Which might in turn leads to the thought that perhaps there are other forms of large organisms under the sand. But I think I might be getting ahead of myself.

It would stand to reason that subterranean Arrakkis is more or less uncharted, and unexplored, as burrowing vehicles are slow and would attract roaming worms. Imagine a sea of metal bearings with a vibration sensor in it. Who knows, perhaps there is a vast chemical and biological wealth deep below the sand...

Or worms are just the creation of a fiction writer, and impossible to biological science, and shouldn't be taken seriously. I mean giant worms are just plain cool to think and read about, no?

[Khan]

For me the worms are out worldly and don't have to stick to the rules of man, but the rules of a god.

[Acriku]

Okiedoke Khan... Exo, I agree with you - this may just be an idea. You can change the idea to fit any situation, but it's still just an idea.

[Exo Etherial]

Don't get me started on God, or His place in life the universe and everything. This isn't the forum for it, and I tend to get foamy at the mouth. :-

But needless to say that God has nothing(or very little) to do with biology, it's study, and understanding it.

[exatreide]

Your Bio skills scare me xeo...

[ilexatrei]

Exo you forget one particularly important thing...Not all life in the universe is similar to the ones on Earth. There can be different life forms that require other cells thanks to evolutionary adaptations needed to survive in that part of the universe. So the worms are able to produce sugars without the use of water by means of some sort of photosynthesis that lacks water maybe with the use of methane or some other gas that is available. This concept is a question that can not allow easy discovery of an answer we will never know the answer before the universe comes to an end...

[lowzeewee]

Won't they have to eat lots of plankton 24/7 :O :O

[Caid Ivik]

Maybe the thermodynamical laws are wrong and there is a possibility of perpetuum mobile - called Shai Hulud.

[nemafakei]

Can anyone remember the hydrocarbon based liquid which is often notedfor its soluting properties. That is, most substances have their solubility in water recorded, and their solubility in this substance.

Surely this could be a replacement for water

[Caid Ivik]

What do you mean, H2CO3 or what?

[TMA_1]

hey guys I merged Xenobiological Question with Sandworms thread. There is a lot of good info in the thing you posted Exo Etherial. That is why I just moved it here so it is all connected together. hope this makes things easier. :)