Medical Cloning

[DjCiD]

hmmm what about how artifact dating can be wrong?

[Anathema]

We have found a lot of artifacts, and dating is pretty reliable- there is only one book that says the human race was born 6,000 years ago.

[Caid Ivik]

Bible was inspired by God, but written by humans, who lived 3000 years ago. And humans in those times had not even word for "million". "Day" in Genesis' first chapter could mean billion years. Dating isn't also reliable. According to it, 27000 years is an average age of a slime. Anyway, these facts are not part of our religious teaching. No one says Bible is a paleohistorian book. Meaning of Genesis is that human race is connected to God and chosen for higher purpose than just "survive as much as you can and reproduct" like animals. Our soul, which won't just perish like that animal's, is his breath given "on sixth day". Then a primate ape creature - human - received mind and self-awarance, ability to do for an animal irational things, to help others, they've received respect. That would be those 6000 years before Christ! There is no evidence of human intelligence existence before this moment. Human intelligence evolution process was too slow, so he gave to us part of him and we've quickly became superior to all other creatures.

[Acriku]

Again I repeat, many people try to add in their own theories, but it is still a hole. Fill it with crap and it is still a hole, but filled with crap. (Analogy, not that all theories made to make sense of the hole are crap, although some are ;)) All you asked for was a hole, and I gave you one. Not ask for an explanation.

[Caid Ivik]

We can't say what really was before 50 years, how we can know about something before 5000 years? In Bible could be truth, but after time... People, not angels, have rewritten it. Every generation has own meaning of it.

[Anathema]

Back on topic, please answer the question about the street bums.

[quoudam72]

Medical cloning of street bums what is this nonsense!? ??? Where is Nema when you need him?

[Caid Ivik]

What does mean "street bum"?

[Anathema]

Homeless and unemployed person.

[Acriku]

What question about street bums? Anyways, back onto the real topic guys. There perhaps may be more good scientists Caid but probability doesn't fair as a good factor in what the embryo may be.

[Anathema]

If you were forced to choose between 6 street bums and one embryo, would you choose the embryo because the embryo could possibly become a scientist or whatever?

[Caid Ivik]

Christian morale teaches us to raise and educate children to bea good and active citizens. Every child. Same if it's conceived by indecent assault or regular partner connection.

[Anathema]

That is not an answer to my question.

[Caid Ivik]

Not every time you receive answer for your question. But I think it explains my opinion. I won't "choose" it, as I can't judge people (altough "caid" means judge). Maybe one is a "street bum", but he can change. Every one has free will. Also, every one has an untouchable right to live. Before as much as after birth.

[Acriku]

Everyone has a right to live, yes. You would deny that right to a dying person in need of such practices?

[Anathema]

Admit, a street bum has a rather slim chance of getting to become more, at least in most countries.

If embryos have the right to live because they could become a person, do sperm cells have the right to live then? Or ovum? Unless everybody starts mass breeding they are "killing" sperm and ovum cells ::).

[Caid Ivik]

Sperm not, until it became one with the egg. That's called conceivment, begin of life.

"Everyone has a right to live, yes. You would deny that right to a dying person in need of such practices?"

No, if that one who has to be killed for other one accepts.

[Acriku]

So using one single embryo to "crop" many different organisms for many different dying or in very high need of them is something you are against? I'm trying to find what exactly you are against.

[Caid Ivik]

One embryo, a sperm within an egg, is a one human living. I'm against experiments on it.

[katnip03]

I am against experiments on anything living, be it human, animal or plant. Anything. We are really messing with stuff that we shouldn't be messing with.

[Anathema]

And we should be messing with atoms, the foundation of every being and object?

In fact, should we mess with chemistry, or should we all just live in little huts, sit around campfires and hunt on wildlife?

[DjCiD]

I'll start the fire, you guys build the hut... when done, we hunt.

Whats wrong with living like that? Will we all die if we dont use the phone or drive a car or get on the internet or whatever... Send me back to the ol days... I wont mind (Im sure you wouldnt mind if I was sent there either ;D )

[Caid Ivik]

When you start fire you hurt plants, when hunting you hurt animals. It's same in this when you live like today or like before thousands of years. God gave us full rule over them. But against humans not. Illnesses like Parkinson or Alzheimer, which are primary targets of embryonal research, attack mostly old-aged humans. They will die soon even without those illnesses, even soon after killing scores of possible future humans.

[Anathema]

Human lives are relatively short- and an embryo will die too eventually.

Are you against abortion?

[Acriku]

Caid, my dad was just diagnosed with Parkinson's at the age of 43, so he has a lot of ways to go >:(