Evolution and Creation

[ethan]

nothing is proven-faith is the only thing you shape opinions on.

[emprworm]

Even MORE Evidence of Jesus recently uncovered. Great News!!

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/

[emprworm]

You didn't prove [out of control profanity snipped] man. If you honestly believe that God had 2 of every creature on earth in a ark you are a Imbecile.It is not a scientific recognised fact! You have not once presented one scerick of hard core scientific evidence for any of your arguments. By your own admission you could not explain how techtonics fit into the God equation as it contradicts the God made the mountains in one day concept. You use nothing but historical opinion, the bible(opinion)(inspired by god ), and opinion from others which is based on historical opinion.

I guess when you stand before God one day, you will remember these words, no?

If you would learn to read English objectively and not let your emotional hatred of Christianity cloud your ability to reason, you will see that I never once said it was a proven scientific fact that 2 of every creature was on the ark. You will see that your accusation of what I said is patently false.

I proved empiraclly and mathematically that given the specific dimensions of the Ark as described in the Bible, there was more than enough room to fit 2 of every single land animal on earth, and then some. In fact, there was so much room left over, they could have built a couple basketball courts. This is not the same as saying that I empiraclly proved that the ark existed. Think with your mind, repo, not with your spiteful bigotry against religion.

I also showed that it is universally recognized amongst the scientific community that there was once a world-wide flood. This is not the same as proving empiraclly that there was an ark floating during this flood.

Again, READ what I say before you respond.

Because of this indescretion and irresponsible posting, I am herby and forthwith going to cease any further dialogue with you until you show me that you are capable of responding to what I say and not out of your own internal anger. Frankly, I dont care whatever reasons you have for hating religion, just dont let interferre with your ability to speak, lest people lose all respect for you. Before you talk to me again, you will read what I say, Repoman, and you will be more civil. I do not bother wasting my time talking to people that lay waste their ability to think rationally and embrace the rampant onslaught of emotional chaos.

Why do 99% of scientists believe in evolution???

Because 99% of scientists base their opinion on evidence

false. demonstrate these figures. I bet I can list more PhD creation scientists than you can list evolutionary PhD scientists.

[DjCiD]

I was thinking about something recently that kind of has something to do with this. We have memories of doing things. But only memories. What if aliens were implanting memories into us, because the next day we remember doing something, but it's just a memory of doing something. If you've seen City of Darkness, then this will make a lot morer sense to you.

yeah that movie where everything stops at midnight and things get changed by those things... cool movie.

[Acriku]

Note that that is not definite evidence of Jesus Christ. Stop posting articles and shouting out that it is "even more" evidence of Jesus. In fact, as said in the article no one in that profession can ever be certain, and a lot of scholars have doubts as to the amount of evidence this actually is. All the box says is "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus". Very popular names and might just be normal people, and may have an unknown reason for the importance of the recognition of Joseph and Jesus who might be normal people. Also, JESUS HAS A BROTHER?! It must suck to be the brother of the Son of God and be a Son of God as well. Some guys have all the luck.

Also, please post any verse that says Jesus had a brother.

[emprworm]

it is more evidence. it is evidence that jesus once lived on the earth. many hard-core atheists think that jesus' existence is a myth. of course, such a postulation flies in the face of evidence, and this is even more.

note: this is not evidence that Jesus was the son of God, only evidence that a man named Jesus born to Joseph, brother of James as described in the Bible once existed.

[DjCiD]

I know there are more than enuff verses that say we are all brothers (and sisters) in Christ.

Matthew 12:46,47

Jesus' Mother and Brothers

46While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

[Acriku]

No it does not. It suggests it, but it can very well be the other way around. An average Joe, or Joseph had a son named James, and another named Jesus. James dies. His bones are placed in the bone box and inscribed upon it is his name, with probably very close people to him, his father and brother. Don't forget that those names were very popular.

[DjCiD]

note: this is not evidence that Jesus was the son of God, only evidence that a man named Jesus born to Joseph, brother of James as described in the Bible once existed.

"You took the words right out of my mouth..." - Meatloaf

I was about to say that...

Not everyone believes Jesus was the Son of God, but some of us do.

Take the Jewish for example they do not claim he was the Son of God, just another prophet from that time. They do beleieve he exisited but that he was not the Messiah. Are you going to tell them they are wrong to?

[katnip03]

I agree that nothing is proven. But some of us like to have something or someone to look up to, or to feel like they are there for us, for example God. And being raised christian, my opinion is that there has to be a God. If there isn't, well I was wrong. I am not here to prove anything, but that is just my opinion.

[Acriku]

I am Jewish myself, and have went to many saturday congregating and friday nights for Sabbath. Yet just because I am Jewish does not mean I believe everything said by the Torah. Even that said by my Rabbi.

[TMA_1]

Many christian churches say the same. I think you might go to a more liberal place of worship. I know many christian churches that believe the same that you do. That you cant take the bible completely seriously at parts. I dont agree but people do believe that.

[DjCiD]

I had a vaction bible school teacher that once told me, that even if I was saved if I sinned and didnt go and ask forgivnes, I would still go to hell.

I'm sure some churchs may beleieve that but i was scared for a few years till a pastor told me all sins are fogiven once your saved past and present. He compared it to being in a cell and once your let out you cant get put back in.

[Repoman]

Emp i a'll agree that i might have gone to far with the imbicile comment. For that i am sorry you are entitled to your own opinion even if i think they are stupid.

What i just did then is something that you should try.

Admitting that you are wrong.

The problem that you have is that you would argue the point no matter how comprehensive the evidence in front of you as unfortantly you would have to admit that everything that you have belived in has been a lie and you fell for it hook line and sinker.

What frustrates me is that you say that you have proven mathematically and emprically subjects that you have quite clearly not.Do you know the difference between evidence and opinion??? You have them clearly confused. Religion is based on opinion and Evoultion is based on fact. ::)

Do you know what emprical means?? It means results based on experiments. Mathematically is is possible to build a Arc that big but noone is arguing that point. What experiments were carried out to get your emprical evidence.

When i brought that fact up in my last post you once again just said that i proved it with nothing behind your statement at all.

"I proved empiraclly and mathematically that given the specific dimensions of the Ark as described in the Bible, there was more than enough room to fit 2 of every single land animal on earth, and then some"

"I also showed that it is universally recognized amongst the scientific community that there was once a world-wide flood."

These are child's arguments mate. Time and time again i have brought up the inconsistancies within your arguments yet you ignore and continue on as if they were never pointed out.

Universal means that everyone believes in it ::)

You quoted a couple of web sites that say there a were civilisations with historical opinion stating their was a world-wide flood, that is not universal mate.

Do you know how hard it is to have a therory that contradicts everything that is taught in the world and yet still succeed??? Evolution did this and now is taught in schools because it is proven whereas before this the creationist therory was taught.

Evolution is fact. It is not a therory! It is proven!How much evidence do you need to see before you believe it?? How many holes in religion need to be pointed out before you see it for the fabrication that it is.

I agree i dont have any numbers on scientists who believe in evolution but to state to me that you can list a number of PHD Biologists who believe in the creationist therory is just downright irrelevant. To give you an analogy that a lot of stupid people use,

My grandma smoked until she was 100 years old so cigarettes can't be that bad for you ::)

You ask why do i hate religion?? Because it kills people. How many people have died because one person thought their god was more real than their god. What makes cristianity more real than islam?? They both have just as much evidence proving their existance, none. We are going to have a jihad because of religion and it will be because of christianity and islam and you have the hide to ask why i hate religion. I could die because of your petty arguments :'(

Your attempt to dodge me on this thread will only expose your lack of evidence with you argument.

[DjCiD]

Do you know the difference between evidence and opinion??? You have them clearly confused. Religion is based on opinion and Evoultion is based on fact.

well in that case it is your opinon that the evidence of Evolution is true ::)

Are you forgetting that it hasnt been proven! nothing has!

If you all want to continue with a 'Im right, your wrong. NO! Im right, your wrong.' then have at it I will not stop you, only suggest you take it up in IMs.

Do you know how hard it is to have a therory that contradicts everything that is taught in the world and yet still succeed??? Evolution did this and now is taught in schools because it is proven whereas before this the creationist therory was taught.

Hmm thats funny casue now its only being taught as one of many different theorys seening as how NONE OF THEN HAVE BEEN PROVEN

Guess it couldnt of been that successful

[pointybum]

or put it in a nutshell..

Add all the evidence collated over the last 100 years to determine the existence of God and things related, and then compare them to scientific evidence. Put these together, side by side, hypothetically in a spreadsheet, and your answers will be at the bottom.

Problem is people wont see it like that, nor will they ever will. The Turin shroud was carbon dated by the company I used to work for and their results were published alongside other organisations who were also offered samples for corroborative date matching.

The results were not in the shrouds favour - it was too young. But people still believe it clothed Jesus despite scientific evidence. It got to a point that these people considered science as something satanic; to dare rock the foundations of the believers as they saw it - I also heard that lives were threatened during those testings.

Once a brain has been washed in a certain way, it cannot be unwashed - to remove the strength of beliefs removes the will to live, to some anyway, as this belief offered a strong structure of foresight, meaning and purpose.

I am a non-believer because I have been brought up with the encyclopaedia, not the bible. This giant manual of 26 volumes game me insight to the fascinating world I havent discovered yet - it helped me generate an unbiased opinion - I believe my hands are mine because I can see and feel them - that to me is the evidence I need, so the same with what scientific evidence can offer us.

So to my early point. Putting all the data together, there is more evidence that belies religion than to prove it and this is the problem with it - it causes war, always has done and thus peace is only possible if opinions where kepted between borders. Of course, borders move and war is then inevitable. History demonstrated this time and time again.

So being laid back I as see myself to be, I choose the liberal minded view that if I die I have served my purpose on this planet with minimal offense to others, to enjoy its fruits, its passions, and its unexplained.

Even more strange, as this might come across as contradictory. My 21 year old cat passed away last January. The old thing was on palative care in its last few days - like elephants returning to their grave yard once they know their time is up, my old cat was doing the same. Absolutely bizzare. It carried on as before except it was incredibly affectionate, almost doting, wouldnt leave my side. And so she feel asleep in my arms that fateful night. I felt a soft but swift movement and then nothing. Immediately after, an electrical type 'zing' went through my body and then a noise - my partner heard it too. Was this the spirit, I thought, how strange but beautiful.

So, am I wrong about everything I have just said? I dont know. I believe there is something spiritual going on but not related in the religeous context. There is a dimension out there which science cannot touch but I do think it is important to live with what we know about than to assume, to fight, to kill, to argue, to forsake one's whole life for something that is all based on a very ancient book written by people who could write, for people who couldnt read.

[Dezertfish]

[quote author=Acriku

[Edric O]

No, Jesus is just a name. But Christ (Cristos in greek) means "the anointed one". Or, in other words, the messiah.

Pointybum:

All you have said is valid, but you are wrong about one vital point. The existence of God is not a scientific fact that can be analyzed, to be proven or disproven! God does not depend on an old shroud created by some medieval merchant to get rich! God does not depend on the doctrines and actions of a corrupt and all-too-human Church! God is far above such petty things. To believe that we could even come close to understanding the Creator of the universe is folly. All we can know about Him is what He told us. And He told us those things in a form that we could understand. The process of creating a universe is undoubtebly much too complex for our simple minds to comprehend!

God is the One that Is. Vast, timeless and completely outside our logic and our laws of physics.

And God is a scientist, not a magician.

Btw: In fact, there is no possible way to prove the existence of God. Because there is no way you could know God when you see Him. Even if God came to your door, how would you know it is really Him and not, for example, a highly advanced alien?

[Edric O]

Also, IMO, a man that has nothing to die for, has nothing to live for.

[pointybum]

lol I know that, but its all assuming isn't it.

I mean, look at the famine, look at the devastations and aftermaths of wars, natural disasters, murderers, all things that end up being dead as a result of a faith that nobody can prove.

Look at the pope - poor bloke. He should be in an old peoples home, look what happened to princess diana, mother theresa, look at all the things that question the ethics that there is a hand in there somewhere that controls our existence.

This is an absurd comment, but I liken life sometimes to the Planet of the Apes, the overtones to the 60's version of the movie rings so close to reality. Extinction of man is only gonna be made by man - does god have a hand in that? If so, I'd argue with him and persuade him not to do this because I like this planet, I like my kids, I like my things, my life. Why should I let god interfere? But it is people's faith in God that interfere with the very existence with this planet and the destruction will be because of this faith - that bothers me. Somebody is potentially screwing with the quality of my life because of their faith.

Live and let live and be happy for what you got than to question other faiths. I could type a hundred sheets and there'd still be room for another 100 for the unbelievable things that questions the existence of this higher being but life does carry on, and new generations will grow to follow whatever faith they have, and thus dangerously steer away from the whole exercise as to why we are here in the first place, to live and love, and to survive, as our gene code dictates just like the animal kingdom does.

We can make this being big in our minds and it can control us, and when that happens, genuine judgement would be worryingly clouded. Look at the recent events with Saddam, and then the same with Afghanistan. Nobody can explain these heineous acts other than just refer back to the faith and thank 'god' it's not on my door step.

My point earlier, is to be intelligent about it - which we can nowadays because of science. The western world opinion is gradually shifting favour to a less intense of faith than 100 years before, because of science. More people are reading and writing than ever before, more have access to this global database of information - I find it foolhardy for the likes of the mideast to really think they have a straight mind - it is a classic demonstration of mass intimidation if you dont believe, and if you dare step out of line, you will be punished for it. Isn't that medieval thinking?

Lets just say, for visualisations sake, what would the world be like if there wasnt religion?

Would it be a nicer place to be in? It's hard to imagine but it does ring with the theory that non-believers have a less demanding pace, sometimes uncomplicated struggle with life than those who have a religious faith.

I made my bed and I relax in it, unlike others who've had their bed made for them and can never relax in it.

[Edric O]

You're mixing things up, Pointybum. Religion doesn't cause wars any more than atheism does. Religion is only an excuse! Notice how behind EVERY single religious war in history, there were personal interests. The Crusades were caused by the desire to plunder the riches of the East, the Inquisition was a way to strengthen the power of the ruling class, and the Protestant/Catholic wars were all about taxes and Church-owned lands.

Religion is the excuse. Human greed is the real cause.

[Edric O]

Edrico For someone who can understand the one country concept you amaze me. How can one person say such an intelligent statement then next thing come out with a statement that is on par with a gorilla.

I learned from the best. You.

See my above post as to why you are wrong in hating religion.

Besides, you sound like you are ready to start a holy war of your own, against all religion. ::)

[Acriku]

Good and true words Pointy. However my bed is still to be made, and will only be made when I am old enough to gather all possible sides and then decide.

As Edric said, Jesus is a normal name, but Christ is the special part.

I agree with your "nothing to live for" quote Edric, for I have something to die for - my country.

But, religions do cause wars. If there was no religion, there wouldn't be a God to serve or sacrifice to, there wouldn't be something to forcifully convert people to, etc. But also, a good thing about religion is that it keeps most people good.

[Edric O]

I agree with your "nothing to live for" quote Edric, for I have something to die for - my country.

Countries cause far more wars than religion. Except for civil wars, ALL wars in history have been caused by one country attacking another!

Religion might have a violent history, but the notion of "country" is soaked in blood!

Countries are FAR worse than anything else when it comes to causing violence.

[Acriku]

Your point? I'd still rather die for my country than anything else. Except save my friends and family of course.