Crazy drug laws

[SurlyPIG]

I think that anything consumed for the purpose of a recreational high should be illegal. It gives you a false feeling of control and happiness. It's fake. You start to not care about the things that brought you joy, all you worry about is how you're going to get your next dose. Killinator, don't be so ignorant as to say that drugees hurt only themselves. Of course they hurt others. They hurt the people who care about them, they hurt people they depend on them, and they hurt people they depend on. Drugs destroy lives. Believe it or not, somebody out there cares about your life. If you destroy yourself, you destroy a part of them. To think differently is arrogant and irresponsible.

To compare it to something else like chocolate or junk food is self-serving. To say that it would be too difficult to control or shut down is lazy.

Ex, you say that keeping dealers and makers in jail is costly? Yeah, but don't you think it's worth it? If Jose the dealer is in jail, maybe he won't deal pot to Billy, Bobby, Bonnie, Bernie and Betty, thus they won't become addicted, lose their jobs, destroy their lives, OD and die etc. If they all never met Jose maybe they'd become productive members of society, all have jobs and kids, contribute the country and the economy etc. Besides the authorities don't imprision every 13-year-old Tom, Dick and Harry that's caught with a joint. They find their dealer and maybe his supplier and lock him up instead. Most kids these days are educated about the issue, but some are just stupid. Some don't know any better. Some have no sense of individuality and will do whatever the "cool" kids are doing. It's like the "If so and so jumped off a bridge, would you?" saying. If Billy, Bobby, Bonnie, Bernie and Betty grow up without using drugs, then they won't turn to dealing or growing at a later age thus drugs will become less and less availible overtime.

In some ways, I'd like darwin's theory to come into play, that way the future is "cleansed", but people are too dependant on each other for that to be humane.

[exatreide]

"Ex, you say that keeping dealers and makers in jail is costly? Yeah, but don't you think it's worth it? If Jose the dealer is in jail, maybe he won't deal pot to Billy, Bobby, Bonnie, Bernie and Betty, thus they won't become addicted, lose their jobs, destroy their lives, OD and die etc."

The problem is they will simply go there dealers friend and get some.We cant imprission them all. it simply wont work. so you would rather have murderers and rapists on the street than a few pot dealers thats........disapointing.

make it legil.

nothing you do will ever make it stop. NOTHING. We have tried to stop it for some 50 years in america and havnt done anything. The smartest thing we could posibly do is legilize it tax it. put a age limit on it.

then you stop wasteing tax payers money. and start gaining some ;)

[Acriku]

Start paying taxes yourself ex and then complain about the government spending it unwisely...

You get a high from marijuana, yes, but after so many joints that high becomes harder and harder to get. You thus become smoking it more and more and more to get that high, and thus addicted. It happens with everything that gives you a euphoria-feeling. Ex that is bs if you say we haven't done anything by trying to stop it, how about drug dealers in Columbia, or South America or plantations on our own soil that have been raided and shut down by the government? That's doing something as far as I know.

[exatreide]

Start paying taxes yourself ex and then complain about the government spending it unwisely...

You get a high from marijuana, yes, but after so many joints that high becomes harder and harder to get. You thus become smoking it more and more and more to get that high, and thus addicted. It happens with everything that gives you a euphoria-feeling. Ex that is bs if you say we haven't done anything by trying to stop it, how about drug dealers in Columbia, or South America or plantations on our own soil that have been raided and shut down by the government? That's doing something as far as I know.

There are different strains of mariajuana. some are stronger than others.

What about the ones in british colombia? They grow them with out any goverment intervention at all.

Pot is worldwide. it has seeped its roots deepinside the earth. and spread itself every whare. it can not be simply eradicated. its seeds are easy to transport.

you can not simply eradicate it. it is every whare. in romaina. in holland....of course...denmark,uk,canada,us,mexico,iceland,greenland,china,japan,south korea,somolia,

unless every nation which has seeds in it destroyes every trace of the drug. it will be sold. smoked. ect.

[Acriku]

No one is trying to eradicate it from the face of the world. Only prohibit illegal use of it, jeez Ex you sound like you smoke it.

[exatreide]

nope i can honestly say i have never smoked it.

but the smartest thing to do is

legilize it. with restrictions

age restrictions.

location whare it can be smoked. IE coffe shops ect.

You can not take it out of the coffe houses.

Standerd pricing

And looky loo! you solved the cycle of violence issue!

[ethan]

marijuana grows wild here.... :D

i might go find some next summer and sell a couple of em.... :D

OR NOT!

[killinator]

First of all- I know from first hand experiance-weed is not phisicly addictive. Mentally? Maybe. But anything can be abused. And I mean anything. My friends are not addicted. They like it. They do it when its around. If they go without it, no big deal. A bummer yes, but oh well. I do it on occasion with them but it certainly does not play any kind of role in my life. People here are talking crazy stuff and you can tell who has tried it and who hasn't. Coke, heroin, crack, etc... should stay illigal only because you do crazy stuff on them that does cause other people to be hurt. I have watched good friends spiral down to the bottom on speed and cola, and its sad and horrible and hurt me almost as much as it hurt them.

I would however, take dealing with someone who is high (on weed) then drunk any day. WITHOUT A DOUBT!!

The real issure here though is- Should people like my friends be able to make the decision to hurt themselves? Why not?

And am I paranoid of my own democrocy? Absoulutly. One great example- Gun control. Our forefathers put that in the constitution for one main reason. So the people could stand up and throw off a oppresive government should the need ever arise. They put it there because the days of the oppresive government that they had just won their freedom from was fresh in their minds. Now the government wants to take away the only insurance we have left. Everyday our rights get fewer and fewer. I probably won't see it it my life, but some day we will be no better then where we started. :'(

My body, My decision.

[killinator]

Start paying taxes yourself ex and then complain about the government spending it unwisely...

You get a high from marijuana, yes, but after so many joints that high becomes harder and harder to get. You thus become smoking it more and more and more to get that high, and thus addicted. It happens with everything that gives you a euphoria-feeling. Ex that is bs if you say we haven't done anything by trying to stop it, how about drug dealers in Columbia, or South America or plantations on our own soil that have been raided and shut down by the government? That's doing something as far as I know.

btw- thats crack, not weed. Bonehead.

[TMA_1]

lol I know many pot heads killinator and it does take more to get a bigger high when you smoke it for a long time. acriku is right. "bone head" ;)

[DjCiD]

that may be true if you smoke every single day, but if you stop for a week your tolerance is reduced, quit for two weeks and you'll be getting silly again stop for a minth and its almost like your first time all over again ;D I quite for three months once (long enuff for basic training) went over to my moms when igot back and she smoked a bowl with me and i had to hide my head I couldnt stop laughing ;D

[TMA_1]

whoa. gross man.lol

[Acriku]

Well people's body chemistry are all different, some may be easier to become addicted than others, or not at all.

[nemafakei]

"btw- thats crack, not weed. Bonehead."

Point is yet valid, though, if you were trying to negate the idea as a whole.

"My body, My decision."

Even if this were true, in almost any such case it's not just you that's harmed.

Just as, to "The real issure here though is- Should people like my friends be able to make the decision to hurt themselves? Why not?", I say: your friends are not isolated. Such a situation will not, within reason, exist. If they happent to be the last people on earth, then, and (almost) only then, do they have such a situation.

Little economics lesson follows:

At the moment, drugs can be bought very cheaply, and many dealers offer freebies to get people addicted. But, were drugs legalised, a few things would happen...

Cost of import would go down (due to discontinued risk of being caught), and most illegal smugglers would make no profit. (I agree, this is a pro-dug point, but it's far outweighed by other problems)

Taxes (equivalent to those on alcohol/tobacco) would go on drugs - to pay for healthcare caused by drugs (NB full cos is unlikely to be recouperated). Hence prices would go up.

Demand would increase, because people no longer fear risk of being caught.

Health standards agencies (UK: think 'OfWeed', like 'OfWat' for power) would have to control the production of the drugs, meaning higher cost of manufacture. The cost of this is likely to be burden to all taxpayers.

Workers will be income-taxed officially, so higher drug costs.

More availability will mean more cases of misuse, so more cost of health (which goes onto drug taxes, or general taxes - either way, people are poorer)

The cost will initially plummet, (and many will misuse drugs - many will also get addicted) - then the cost will increase again to levels whereby blackmarket drugs will once again be cheaper - so poor addicts will have to buy those, and get themselves into problems due to use of unregulated substances, causing more health problems. Richer addicts will find themselves with high prices... and so will become poorer than they initially realised...doing more damage to themselves than they had realised.

Crime to fund the (far greater number of) drug addictions will start to rise again, and we'll be back where we started, only with problems like more people inactive due to drugs, and more situations like that of Nyar's brother, damaging all those aroung the individual who thought "My body, My decision." - not really knowing the consequences for himself his family, and his society.

[gryphon]

He, you've stolen that lesson from us !

I said so Edric O, this is the way we're gonna take over the world ;)

In The Netherland a couple of cities have thought about setting up legal drug plantages following those guidelines.

Is was canceled though. If I recall correctly not by people in the cities themslefs but by our government saying 'no' to the plans of those cities.

[TMA_1]

nice words nema. I just havent seen what you said actually happening. its a prediction. The prohibition is a historical showing of what restrictions by federal law can do.

[SurlyPIG]

Ditto to Nema.

TMA, firstly, this is a different time than the prohibition. People are more tolerant. They're more educated. If shown a some statistics about booze, maybe responsible drinkers would say, "I can control myself, but others can't and I guess it isn't such a big sacrifice to give it up to help them.

Second, this isn't even prohibition. Pot is already illegal. It's already underground.

I agree a lot with nyar about most of the people in here not really being qualified to support pot so highly...I'm still looking forward to what taqwa11 has to say. He's seen it all, and he can give you a straight answer.

I've even seen the effects myself ie friends that start smoking pot, suddenly grades go way down, stop doing their hobbies, skip school etc.

A scientific reason not to smoke pot is how your brain reacts to endorphins. Endorphins (sp?) are proteins that exist naturally in the brain in small amounts. All though they can be linked to insensibility of pain, their primary function is to chemically promote happiness. When you do things you like, ie sports, music, spending time with family etc, your brain releases endorphins in small amounts, such that you develop very little or no tolerance for them. But when you do drugs like pot, endorphins are released in huge amounts, thus you're very happy for a short period of time. You start to develop a tolerance for not only the pot, but the endorphins that are released by the pot. All of a sudden, the pot isn't as effective, but not only that, the other stuff in your life is no longer effective at promoting the release of endorphins. So, that sport you used to watch, that instrument you used to play or that family you used to love is are no longer any fun. This is the primary reason druggies tend to drop out of school, sports, get fired or quit their jobs, stop doing their hobbies etc. They become obsessed with their next high, and this is just one of the reasons why pot IS physically addictive (contrary to what you said, killinator). Recent studies have proven this. Yeah, there'll always be people who can resist the addictive effects way better than others, as with nicotine, but on the whole, it's addictive.

[Razorox]

Ditto to Nema.

TMA, firstly, this is a different time than the prohibition. People are more tolerant. They're more educated. If shown a some statistics about booze, maybe responsible drinkers would say, "I can control myself, but others can't and I guess it isn't such a big sacrifice to give it up to help them.

Second, this isn't even prohibition. Pot is already illegal. It's already underground.

I agree a lot with nyar about most of the people in here not really being qualified to support pot so highly...I'm still looking forward to what taqwa11 has to say. He's seen it all, and he can give you a straight answer.

I've even seen the effects myself ie friends that start smoking pot, suddenly grades go way down, stop doing their hobbies, skip school etc.

A scientific reason not to smoke pot is how your brain reacts to endorphins. Endorphins (sp?) are proteins that exist naturally in the brain in small amounts. All though they can be linked to insensibility of pain, their primary function is to chemically promote happiness. When you do things you like, ie sports, music, spending time with family etc, your brain releases endorphins in small amounts, such that you develop very little or no tolerance for them. But when you do drugs like pot, endorphins are released in huge amounts, thus you're very happy for a short period of time. You start to develop a tolerance for not only the pot, but the endorphins that are released by the pot. All of a sudden, the pot isn't as effective, but not only that, the other stuff in your life is no longer effective at promoting the release of endorphins. So, that sport you used to watch, that instrument you used to play or that family you used to love is are no longer any fun. This is the primary reason druggies tend to drop out of school, sports, get fired or quit their jobs, stop doing their hobbies etc. They become obsessed with their next high, and this is just one of the reasons why pot IS physically addictive (contrary to what you said, killinator). Recent studies have proven this. Yeah, there'll always be people who can resist the addictive effects way better than others, as with nicotine, but on the whole, it's addictive.

Well said ACE. I've never touched marijuana, cigarettes, or any other kind of drug in my entire life. And I don't plan on it. People usually do these things for one of several reasons.

A) It's the cool thing to do

B) Their friends coax them into it once, and they develop an addiction

C) They are rebellious, and are looking for more ways to show the world who's supposedly in control.

D) Other pressure being applied by parents or siblings who may be doing these things.

None of these are valid reasons to throw your life away.

[SurlyPIG]

Yup. Thats why I made the reference to the "If so and so jumped off a bridge..." thing. Doing something just 'cause other people are doing it is a stupid reason to do anything!

[Razorox]

Yup. Thats why I made the reference to the "If so and so jumped off a bridge..." thing. Doing something just 'cause other people are doing it is a stupid reason to do anything!

I agree 100%. (Didn't catch that bridge part in your post...must have read it too quickly ;D)

[Acriku]

Touche ACE. Another reason would be huge amounts of stress, and thus people smoke to relieve it. I plan on not smoking anything, but maybe a few glasses of alcohol every month.

[killinator]

I think that a large problem here is the propaganda that so many people here have bought. To compare weed in any way to crack, coke, etc.. is completly crazy.

Alright, I wasn't going tell my story but now I am. I starting smoking weed at about 13yrs old. Yes, it got in the way of my school. Yes, I dropped out. I was only a child but you sure as hell couldn't have told me that then. I had no clue. Soon, I was seduced by a life style of degenerate living. I hated my mother (dad was long gone) so I moved out when I was 16. Thats when the party really got going. I felt like I was a freaken rock star. I was gonna show everybody. Their rules didn't mean a thing to me ya know. Next was LSD. HOLY CRAP. I couldn't believe it. It was like going to another planet. I though all of my revelations were pure genius. The stars were mine man. Hell, might as well try some coke. Maybe throw it on some tin foil with some water and baking soda. Freebase they call that. Its the exact same thing as crack. Thank God that wasn't around much because that would have been the death of me for a fact. Next comes speed, always around, cheap, high that last forever, heightened awareness but could still fuction in public ( unlike LSD- people at the grocry store start to wonder why you laughing at the orange juice). Now to the pills. Mad pills. Mix em up and get a new high every night. I lived in my 65 Nova for about 8 months. Nice huh. Then I was taken in at about 18yrs old by a bunch of deadheads. The youngest one was about 29 at the time, and I learned alot of good things from them. How it was cool to be decent. How it was cool to show those you care about how much you love them. Those guys were the greatest and I owe them alot. But... always one to learn the hard way, I got kicked out. And it was all because of speed. Oh, and btw, now I had a kid. This was the bottom. All of my other friends were in no shape to help me help myself. I was screwed. So, now I move in with my girl and son (both of them were like angels). I'll try to keep this short as poss. I kicked it all. I can't tell you how shitty life looks when your sober after years of not. Depression kicked in with unbelievable ferocity. My son and my girl are the only reasons I'm alive.

Now, this all sounds pretty anti drug doesn't it? Well, it is. Exept for one thing. Weed. Weed never presented a problem exept when I was very young. Well, its the same reason you have to be 21 to drink. When your young you don't what the hells going on, so what makes you think that wouldn't mess a kid up. I agree. Thus the problem though. I made a decision to cross the line. Weed is labled by so many ignorant people the same as hard drugs, that I thought I was hard core now. Now its easy to take the next step. Everyone my whole life had told me the same exact BS that Acriku is tring to say. I found out something. They were lying ( or just had no experiance, like obviously Acriku). So... If they were lying to me about weed, they must be lying about everything. Problem is, they weren't lying about anything else. I had to learn that the hard way. Would have been nice if my parents, teachers, politicians, etc.. wouldn't have fooled me so much, life might have been a little easier. I married my girl, ( been with her for over 10 yrs now), have another son, and another child on the way. We are happy and I am thankful everyday I was able to beat the odds and build the life that I have now. Lies and ignorace get us nowhere. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Oh and btw, I think Im pretty quilified to talk about this thank you very much.

[Nyarlathotep]

killinator, I didn't mean everyone wasn't qualified. Yet I believe that most do not have the experience like some of us and therefore sometimes do lack the knowledge of what they are talking about. And please don't get me wrong, it's definately not meant as a flame, it's just something I noticed.

With my story I just wanted to show how drugs can destroy lifes. I do know that it doesn't always happen, but no one can predict what happens once you start using that sh1t.

If they would make drugs illigal in The Netherlands, it would mean nothing. The punishment in The Netherlands is a complete and utter joke, so it won't do any good and won't stop the use of it like it's now. I do hope that one day the punishment for breaking the law in The Netherlands would be more severe then it is now (I mean, you could kill someone with drunk driving and still get only a year in prison :O. Try to do the same in the US for example ::)).

[killinator]

One year? For killing somebody while drunk driving? My lord man, thats CRAZY. You should be hung for that. Anyway, no offence taken Nyar. Im wrote that more for some of the ingnorance I was reading from other people. I think its useless to make your judgements from second hand propaganda when you have no experiance. Most drugs are bad and should stay illegal for sure. ;)

[Acriku]

Killinator, you ever realize that weed started all that sh1t? Your experience is a given, but you don't need to smoke weed to know what it does. It's ignorant to think that. Your life was trash, no offense but it was, and it all started with weed...hmm? Something I'm missing here? Oh yes, weed is bad mmkay. It isn't propoganda, it's scientific fact. Maybe if you stayed in school you would have learned something about the scientific standpoint.