what the????

[hilamobster13]

i believe that no matter how much we try to keep it in check some of us just arent mature enough to handle a religious debate. this is by far the hardest type of debate to keep in check simply because a mans religion is a part of him, his soul, , his culture, his mindset,etc.

i am not willing to go into something that will end up in us all feeling angry and overdefensive.

lets talk about bill clinton instead. :P

[evilbaronatreides]

why must everyone pick one Billie C???????? he's human!!!!! leave him alone...instead lets talk crap about right wing fundalmentalists

[garth]

Well it's not just Monicagate that alot of people were upset with ole Bill, it all started with (to the best of my memory)......

1.) Bill allows homosexuals in the military so long as they keep quiet about their sexual orientation ("don't ask, don't tell")

2.) The Budget Crunch (govt. shutdowns to save money)

3.) Fundraising in the White House (a night in the Lincoln bedroom was a prize for donating some money to the Democratic Party)

4.) Somalia (One of our troop's corpse was dragged through the streets of Mogadishu)

5.) Monica Lewinsky and the other lady who was allegedly bribed by Bill to keep quiet about their affair

6.)  More fundraising problems:  this time Al Gore (then VP) went to a buddhist monastery to raise money

7.) Kosovo (many people felt it was none of our business)

8.) The infamous Clinton pardon of fugitive billionaire Marc Rich

I've tried to put these in order to the best of my ability but I wasn't even a teenager when most of it happened  :D

[nampigai]

Can't You say that Bill Clinton was more popular in Europe than the US? He was rather popular in Denmark, and I personally, am very satisfied with the US going into Kosovo. Because the European leaders can't cooperate and make those dessecions alone.  

[garth]

That was the argument used by many Conservatives in the US against Kosovo intervention:  it was a European matter and therefore none of our business.

[evilbaronatreides]

i dunno, America likes to stick it nose everywhere, then has that sort of "Gotta Save the world otherwise communism and slacker hippies will take over the planet" sentiment. Not a good combination. Strange thing however; why is it that America helps pretty much everywhere thats covered on Newspeak (excuse me, Newsweek), but when it needs help, no one gives Unkle Sam a hand?must be those conservatives

[nampigai]

Yes I do see your point. But the European politicians can't do anything by them selves, they have to come crawling and ask the us for help. And lucky for us you helped. The problem is that germany, france and gb have a problem when they have to cooperate. They all want to be in charge.

[garth]

We have to have a strategic reason to intervene in a potentially dangerous situation like Somalia and Kosovo.  That, and we can only do so much at one time and having troops away from home for a very long period of time is not a very good vote getter come election day.  Although it would almost certainly score points with the international community as the "good samaritan" country.

[ordos45]

Good Samritan Country?  Then why do I read reports about Europe calling the US "Saddam and Gamorah?" and what about the whole "American Pigs" thing.  And what about the whole party thing in many countries on September 11th?

Just thought I wouldn't let the nice things get in the spotlight for too long.  Oh and one thing about BIll, he kept us all entertained.  

One more thing.  Every President in recent memory has had something overshadowing them on the State of the Union.  Bush Sr. had the Gulf War, Clinton had all of the stuff listed by Shaddam Hussein...err...Corrino, and Bush Jr. is going to have a Terrorist War.

[garth]

1.)  We were in Somalia to aid relief workers in handing out food to starving civilians.  I would call that a pretty noble cause.  There was nothing strategic about it, no oil reserves, no possible economic gain from our intervention.  We did it because we recognize the fact that our country has a lot and want to help those less fortunate.

2.)  We were in Kosovo to keep Slobodon Milosovic's crack militia forces from slaughtering anymore ethnic Albanian's than he already had.  There is very clear documented evidence of mass graves in Kosovo filled with the corpses of Albanian people.  Unfortunately, after we threw out the Serbs, the angry Albanians who returned to their ravaged homeland wanted revenge on the Serbs remaining there and proceeded to carry out their own form of vigilante justice.

3.)  The majority of Middle Easterners actually like the United States, its a very small fanatical minority who gets the spotlight on our television sets because the people who are controlling the Arab press are Muslim fundamentalists who want to make themselves seem more powerful than they really are.  Case in point:  the people of Iran (one of the most staunchly fundamentalist country) hate their regime, in a special election held in one of their provinces the government blocked all pro-reform candidates from the ballot.  The voter turnout was a whopping 3%.

4.)  There are differing opinions from all across Europe on the United States.  Some countries sneer at us because of our Conservative president because Europe is a very Liberal society.  Others, like Britain, publicly exclaim their support for us.

If helping starving civilians in war torn countries get their lives and countries back together isnt being a "good samaritan" I don't know what else is.

[evilbaronatreides]

or maybe they sneer at our president because of the way he was voted in, ie the electoral votes

[thomas]

We go from ex accidentaly deleting him self to sigs to philosophy to religion to the US's problems. :D :D I like it :D :D

It shows we like to disscuss many differant topics.

[Gobalopper]

I really don't think people in other countries, like Kosovo or Afghanistan, know or care how the US electoral system works. They believe what the media tells them to believe. ;D

[evilbaronatreides]

true...but one does have to admit that the american electoral vote process is a bit fishy.

[evilbaronatreides]

i mean does anyone know the true purpose of the electoral vote procces? from my prespective (my opinion) is that its just another way for the conservative/bigoted buearcrats to stay in power. it really does render the popular vote useless in tight situations.

and why is it that every time i begin wondering of american politics, i begin thinking of that famous Geogre Orwell line "Everyone is equal, just some are more equal than others"?

[nampigai]

I was just thinking, Why haven't USA intervened in the Israely conflict, I mean with all it's strong ties to this country ( if one could call it a country. ) I don't sympathize with the israelic nor the palestinic. I beleive that the UN or NATO, should act and take control over Jeruselem. And make it an enclave controlled by UN.

[exatreide]

The whole electeral collage thing was  created when the U.S was young. The towns were so far apart and the population so littlre, they just created the electeral collage thing. I dont know why we still use it. I personaly think Gore should have won the election. He had what like 10,000 more votes for him? I also think its funny that the state it came down to. Flordia(americas wang) was goverend by bush's brother.

[quoudam72]

I was just thinking, Why haven't USA intervened in the Israely conflict, I mean with all it's strong ties to this country ( if one could call it a country. ) I don't sympathize with the israelic nor the palestinic. I beleive that the UN or NATO, should act and take control over Jeruselem. And make it an enclave controlled by UN.

I really doubt that will take place Feyd_Rautha the most that has ever happened has been peace talks. Intervention in that conflict no but support for one side over the other is more what you will continue to see. And with Israel just recently being attacked in the West Bank in the past couple of days the Palenstines can expect nothing but more hardships to come. Really I can't see the USA doing anymore than they have done in the past.

[nemafakei]

When the US talk, the people they talk to always bicker too much for the US to be bothered to make them sit up and co-operate.

When the US take action, it always just up somehow., and they end up looking like fools to the outside world.

Usually. Someone's now going to find a counter-example.

[nampigai]

I really doubt that will take place Feyd_Rautha the most that has ever happened has been peace talks. Intervention in that conflict no but support for one side over the other is more what you will continue to see. And with Israel just recently being attacked in the West Bank in the past couple of days the Palenstines can expect nothing but more hardships to come. Really I can't see the USA doing anymore than they have done in the past.

I don't think that the US haven't done enough on the contrary I think that they do a tremendus work for the entire world. But i can't take side in the israelic conflict, cause the two parts provoke each other constantly. You can't justify any of them. It's the extremists on both sides who does'nt want peace.  

[garth]

I have mixed feelings about our electoral system.  

One thing I know many Conservatives and Liberals agree on is that something needs to be done in order to prevent another Florida from happening.

The electoral college's purpose is to make sure that presidential candidates pay attention to the smaller states instead of jumping around to the major population centers.  Another thing it does is let the states decide the outcome of the election, not the people.  Since 51% of the votes in one state can carry the entire state's electoral college votes that means the other 49% don't count.

To me that's anti-democratic and puts the will of the state ahead of the will of the people.  Unfortunately it will never be changed because a constitutional ammendment requires 2/3 of the state legislatures to ratify.

[quoudam72]

I don't think that the US haven't done enough on the contrary I think that they do a tremendus work for the entire world. But i can't take side in the israelic conflict, cause the two parts provoke each other constantly. You can't justify any of them. It's the extremists on both sides who does'nt want peace.

[nampigai]

I don't say that it's the US who has shall do all the work. I think that UN should act. It's obviusly that the conflict is excalting and soon with the war in afgahnistan and all, we may have a major conflict.

[nampigai]

It's incredible that mankind haven't evolved since the stoneage. We will allways keep fighting each other  :-/

[evilbaronatreides]

its apart of our nature as human beings that we fight/compete, even over trivial things. Thats what propels us further to our ultimate doom (...er future i mean)