quoudam72 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Yes but are you going to continue saying we need more proof, we don't believe you. All we are doing is really wasting time. I don't think you really want to talk about religion. And I do not mean just saying that God does not exist. I have not seen one person on this board yet take any one of the religions and break them down in a theological aspect. Can we get to that yet already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 That would be hard to do, as there are many variants of most religions. Wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 No, it would not be we are talking about religion. This is the arena I was trying to get you guys in before when I was being told to calm down....remember? Since you guys want to say the things you say put your money on the table I'm taking all bets. So who is the first batter up on deck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbaronatreides Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Feyds right. We all have the choice to believe in whatever we want to, whether it be a turkey or God. I myself, choose not believe, more like feeling, knowing the exsistence of a higher source of energy. I have no proof of this power, but i dont care if i do. Why? because i dont press my ideals on anyone, nor do i care about what others try to press. If one wants to believe, thats fine and dandy, if one doesnt, samething. But the moment one person begins to express their ideas somewhat aggresively, as if though their ideas are the only "right" ones, then I get a bit mad. No one should be put lesser, because they think differently (great example for today, ML King JR. thought in an immnensly different manner, but he made a difference). There is no right answer, yet there is no wrong answer; a paradox of life. The reason I demanded proof was because KANT was being a pain, he kept talking but there was no solidness to his words. I demand that of everyone however, from "atheists" to "believers", because if a person has no proof, then their statements are as good as false. If there is going to be a fight between the believers and nonbelievers, then Ill sit out, possibly moderate, because the only "beliefs" that matter to me are my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 21, 2002 Author Share Posted January 21, 2002 She coems from the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Who are the bigots? And also, just a thought, at what point of time did God 'make' life on Earth? Because I am just wondering if the time conflicts with the fact that life existed before that. Help me out  :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 21, 2002 Author Share Posted January 21, 2002 hmm, I forget which day that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Actually I am not being sarcastic. I am always open-minded and enjoy the views of others. And don't attack me please, let's keep this mature. What question is this you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 21, 2002 Author Share Posted January 21, 2002 ok, no personal attacks... Â ;DIts the question of how an explosion can occur from nothing and create the universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Well I'm not one to talk about the Big Bang, as I am not an expert and I don't want to get anything wrong. There are websites for this stuff. Written by experts  ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 22, 2002 Author Share Posted January 22, 2002 Hmm, good response. Â :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Ok there is this kid at school who says he is a wicca. I have no problme with that but he said that wicca has nothing to do with witch craft. I looked up Witch and it says it used to be spelled Wicce. When Your adressing some one in wicca your not suposed to call them wicens i think but Wicce. He says that Wicca is the belife in multipul gods. Which its not. Well any way arnt wicca and witchcraft closly related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner154 Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 that's pretty much nonsense. i dont know what you're talking about dude (referring to ExAtreides) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 LEARN TO FRICKING READ! >:( >:( >:(I said clearly that there is this kid at school who said that wicca and witchcraft arnt closly realated and that there completly diferent. I say they are close if not symbiotic.Who is right? Â Is that clear enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Sorry dident mean to insault you its just early in the morning. But can any one help with this? We have a bet of about 7 dollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Well, from the definition of both:Wicca is about supernatural powers existing, and the practice of them, and includes ritualistic observation of life and seasonal cycles. Witchcraft is the use of sorcery and/or magic. So they are similar, but not to the point where a witch practices wicca. or vice versa. Straight from the dictionary peoples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 23, 2002 Author Share Posted January 23, 2002 Ex, learn to spell. Â ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Paganism is the belief in gods such as the Greco-Roman pantheon or the Norse gods, or any such 'natural' domained gods (reminds me of gov't ministries...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Note: I don't have the time to answer right now to everything that has been written since my last post, so I'll continue later.Nema, WHY are you avoiding my point? Was the reign of Mary I between the 5th and 9th centuries? OF COURSE NOT! If you do not offer proof the Christianity persecuted paganism during those 500 years, then I must assume that Christianity rose to power in that timeframe because people WANTED to convert.About God doing so-called "evil" acts - you must remember that our knowledge is limited. We don't see all the possible futures, we don't know what would have happened if God would have acted any other way. I suppose it's Muad'Hib's dillema: Whatever He does, it can be considered evil. Take Hitler for example: God has 2 choices - either he creates Hitler or not. There is no middle way. Now imagine this:1. Hitler is created - WW2 happens2. Hitler is not created - something much worse happens (maybe a nuclear war)So what non-"evil" act can God do?Axissillian:That was a wonderful final post! Now THAT'S a good lesson in religious tolerance.I think it's time for a formal apology from me for calling atheists "servants of Lucifer". I'm sorry.:( Â However, I do know a few people (none of them from this forum) who are, IMHO, unwilling servants of Satan.I'd also like to point out that there are some things about God that we'll never be able to imagine - like existence outside of time. That's why people ask questions like "where did God come from?" - they find it hard to understand that time doesn't apply to Him, so none of our time-realated notions (past, present, future, beginning, end, etc.) make any sense when applied to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 To evilbaronatreides: Evolution doesn't contradict Christianity. Or any other religion, for that matter. Evolution might just be God's method of Creation.Personally, I have mixed feelings about evolution. I can't decide whether to believe it or not, but the fact is, I don't care either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Hello again Edric.The Hitler Scenario.You consider only the two possibilities, and he knows what he does will have effects. BUT you consider only two possibilities but god could cater for all circumstances and do something like make hitler saintlike - unles god is not omnipotent.And remember I'm not saying he's evil just for the hell of it, I'm using it as proof by contradiction to say he's not there (for those who may be confused)."...so none of our time-realated notions (past, present, future, beginning, end, etc.) make any sense when applied to God"Therefore you cannot use the same argument to prove that godcreated the universe - the universe embodies time, so when people ask questions like "where did the universe come from?", it makes no sense to reply god must have made it therefore god exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Ordos45, let me tell you more about the Big Bang.It's totaly wrong to call it an "explosion". The Big Bang is better defined as an "event". The very first one, to be exact. The question "how can something come from nothing?" is pointless, because nothingness itself didn't exist before the BB. Time and space were created in the Big Bang, which btw, would have looked like an enourmous flash of light (does that remind you of something?). In the first nanoseconds after the event, the Universe was a quickly-expanding sphere containing only pure energy. After some time (microseconds, that is), the photons (or whatever that "pure energy" was made up of) started breaking up into particle-antiparticle pairs that annihilated each other and turned into energy again. So there was a constant shift from energy to matter and back again. But for unknown reasons, it turned out that the number of particles was slightly higher than the number of antiparticles. So after the matter and antimatter finished annihilating each other and the Universe was "cold" enough so that the energy didn't turn to matter-antimatter pairs any more, there was a small surplus of particles left... the building blocks of our world.If you want me to continue I'll have to go get my textbook. And since it's midnight over here, I don't feel in the mood to do that. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nampigai Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 How do we know if this was the first event? These are all assumptions, I don't think that they are all true, we think we are so clever and have the answers for everything..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Therefore you cannot use the same argument to prove that godcreated the universe - the universe embodies time, so when people ask questions like "where did the universe come from?", it makes no sense to reply god must have made it therefore god exists.Now when did you hear me using an argument like that?Making Hitler saintlike would count as not making him at all, because by "Hitler" I meant someone with his character, someone that would start a World War.How do you know that God didn't simply choose the lesser evil? How do you know that all other paths didn't lead to even more suffering? There could be many situations in which the only thing that could have prevented a great evil from happening would have been direct divine intervention - meaning no more free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Free will - look at Mahdi's point on free will (vis. he is omnipotent, so we have none)."Now when did you hear me using an argument like that?" - Not you, but religious types in general (Paley's watch argument etc)BB: "would have looked like an enourmous flash of light"It would have been continuous, but never mind..."How do we know if this was the first event?"That is more or less the definition of it - plus we know about the distortion of time up to (as far back as) that point."the only thing that could have prevented a great evil from happening would have been direct divine intervention"Does this mean you don't believe in miracles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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