How much different is Emperor?

[MrFrodo]

I was thinking about buying Emperor because all the extra features in the game sounds really cool, like the tactical world map, 3D graphics, diff. landscape etc... but how much new/different is it from dune 2 or dune 2000? I have to admit I've only seen a few screenshots of Emperor (looks good to me!), and thats about it, I'm pretty new to Dune (although I've played Dune 2 and a bit of 2000).

Games are bloody expensive to buy and I just really want to make sure Emperor will be a purchase that I won't regret. So I need some feedback on the game guys, I assume most of you on this msg. board have the game?

[Desert_Eagle25]

it's a fun game purdy much. about the campaign, u can play allt three houses, or just one, since each house campaign has a different, but similar ending. graphics are very good, gameplay and interface are also good...i guess i would suggest it.

[Nyarlathotep]

Be sure you meet the games requirements (you need to be above the specs that are printed on the box)..

I have EBFD, but stopped playing a long time ago.

The game looks good, graphics are good. The game play is okay as well, although there are a few minor issues.

All I can say is, if you like RTS games, buy it.

[vidiware]

Good game...

When you gets tired

you can use my mod (or another of cause)

[DS_CL]

You'd be surprised though. Emperor isn't htat expensive. I bought a duplicate of the game a few weeks ago because i wanted an extra set. It was only $10. But then at another store, i saw it for 30.

I think the larger box is more expensive for some reason that i will never understand.

[Desert_Eagle25]

Yeah, me too. Theres no difference between the box sizes really, the smaller one is just compact, thats all. Yet the smaller one's price is three times lower.

[Timenn]

I advice you to buy it when you are still addicted to RTS, it looks in many ways the same as dune2000 (or TS), but ofcourse the graphics are different, and the units are one a very different way balanced.

There are also many new features like worm-riding etc.

And the campaigns are long, so you are busy with them for a while (if you don't know the campaing map). There aren't so many specefic missions. Like in TS or C&C, but most missions are like skirmish games, but here you get reinforcements, and a mission with it, like: defeat the enemy, but protect the Fremen Camp.

I should say I played Emperor for a long while. But like mostly all games, you get bored of it, finally

[Navaros]

I was thinking about buying Emperor because all the extra features in the game sounds really cool, like the tactical world map, 3D graphics, diff. landscape etc... but how much new/different is it from dune 2 or dune 2000? I have to admit I've only seen a few screenshots of Emperor (looks good to me!), and thats about it, I'm pretty new to Dune (although I've played Dune 2 and a bit of 2000).

Games are bloody expensive to buy and I just really want to make sure Emperor will be a purchase that I won't regret. So I need some feedback on the game guys, I assume most of you on this msg. board have the game?

Do not buy this game unless you want to play it competitively online. If you buy it only for the singleplayer experience you are going to end up feeling *very* ripped-off. There are hundreds of pathfinding bugs that can totally ruin the gameplay in many instances (and for the people who say the bugs are "minor" or "insiginificant" on here, most of those people haven't spent nearly as much time playing Emperor as I have, and therefore they do not grasp just how truly game-ruining the pathfinding bugs can be.

You can not move your units in an attack-formation-move, so your choices are:

1. Send all your units at once in an attack move, and lose all of your infantry and light vehicles before your heavy vehicles even make it to the battle.

2. Send your units in a formation-move and waste *all* your time watching them and doing nothing else while you watch them (which will result in your guranteed death against any good player) because you have to stop them any time they get attacked with the formation-move just to make your army fire back.

3. Move all your army across the maps about one inch at a time.

You *will* notice all these things if you stick with Emperor and most especially if you get good at Emperor. Ask yourself if you can tolerate that or not.

Even worse, you can not control where your collectors harvest. So a lot of times they will automatically harvest right outside the enemy base even if you try to tell them to harvest in your *own* spice, and they will die, your economy will die, and you will lose the game simply because you can not control where your harvesting goes even though you are *supposed* to be able to. There is Refinery Waypoint function in the 1.09 patch, but it does not work. This is the single-most game-ruining aspect of Emperor, and it's a *huge*, incredibly frustrating issue that will never be corrected. You should know this before purchasing Emperor.

The "tactical world map" that you mentioned is irrelevant. If you try to take every territory on the map, you will spend most of your time defending territoreis that you have *already* captured, repeatedly, over and over and over again. You get one turn to attack, then the computer can attack you twice (two AI Houses, each with a turn to attack you on the map every time you have one turn to attack a territory). Therefore chances are that for everyone one territory you capture, the computer will attack a territory that you have *already* captured, and the computer will do this twice before you have a chance to attack again. This means you will be playing on the exact same maps several dozen times over and over again until you are sick to death of them, with no mission goals or voice acting at all in those missions.

Emperor is Dune 2 with better graphics, but a much worse overall design. Dune 2 did not have bugs. Emperor is full of bugs that ruin the gameplay. Emperor is half-baked, Dune 2 was not.

Some thing that any veteran of Dune 2 will absolutely *hate* about Emperor is that you can only build one type of vehicle at a time. Instead of having a heavy and light factory for different types of vehicles, you only get one factory, so you can not build both types of vehicles at the same time and that *really* makes the gameplay a lot worse than it would be if you could build light and heavy vehicles at the exact same time like you can in Dune 2. Also, the repair pads are gone, unlike in Dune 2 where ADV Carryalls would automatically pick up any damaged vehicle and put it on your repair pad for you. That is another thing you are really gonna miss in Emperor.

[MrFrodo]

Navaros, you got some really interesting points there! Now I'm really leaning on both sides on whether to buy it or keep me money.

The thing about the AI attacking your territories over an over again does seem very frustrating! But surely there must be some good aspects to the game?

(When the AI attacks your territory again, do you re-start the entire level again, or do you get to use the base and units that you previously had in the level?)

[Navaros]

Navaros, you got some really interesting points there! Now I'm really leaning on both sides on whether to buy it or keep me money. The thing about the AI attacking your territories over an over again does seem very frustrating! But surely there must be some good aspects to the game?(When the AI attacks your territory again, do you re-start the entire level again, or do you get to use the base and units that you previously had in the level?)

About keeping your base, some times you get two or three buildings out of your whole huge base, but no more. Against the computer, I usally had two separate bases with 40 + buildings in total. When you start on the same map again, instead of giving you your whole base back, you get no more than about 4 of those 40 buildings at the most. The rest you have to rebuild from scratch(which is completely ridiculous and very frustrating)Do not buy it hoping for a lot of scripted missions or voice acting. Most of the "missions" have no goals, and no voice acting. There is some FMV, but you only get about 15 minutes of FMV in *total* for all of the whole game, and the ending is *very* badly done. There is little to recommend about the singleplayer portion of Emperor.Good aspects to the game? If you play online and cope with the many, *many* pathfinding bugs Emperor can still be a fun game. There are only a few (maybe 5 or 6 at the most) fair 4 player maps, so if you plan on playing online in mostly 2 vs 2 games, you will be playing the same 5 or 6 maps over and over again for all eternity. The Quickmatch tournament system (1 vs 1 ranked games) can be fun and there is a much different dynamic to it than 2 vs 2 games because the tactics needed on the 4 player maps when only 2 people are in the game, are much different.

[Desert_Eagle25]

Nav, u grang up sum interesting points. U prolly got most of the bugs and stuff down. But there are also sum good things to emp. I dont kno whut, but I kno they are good. lol

[sneezer3]

Do not buy this game unless you want to play it competitively online. If you buy it only for the singleplayer experience you are going to end up feeling *very* ripped-off. There are hundreds of pathfinding bugs that can totally ruin the gameplay in many instances (and for the people who say the bugs are "minor" or "insiginificant" on here, most of those people haven't spent nearly as much time playing Emperor as I have, and therefore they do not grasp just how truly game-ruining the pathfinding bugs can be.

You can not move your units in an attack-formation-move, so your choices are:

1. Send all your units at once in an attack move, and lose all of your infantry and light vehicles before your heavy vehicles even make it to the battle.

2. Send your units in a formation-move and waste *all* your time watching them and doing nothing else while you watch them (which will result in your guranteed death against any good player) because you have to stop them any time they get attacked with the formation-move just to make your army fire back.

3. Move all your army across the maps about one inch at a time.

You *will* notice all these things if you stick with Emperor and most especially if you get good at Emperor. Ask yourself if you can tolerate that or not.

Even worse, you can not control where your collectors harvest. So a lot of times they will automatically harvest right outside the enemy base even if you try to tell them to harvest in your *own* spice, and they will die, your economy will die, and you will lose the game simply because you can not control where your harvesting goes even though you are *supposed* to be able to. There is Refinery Waypoint function in the 1.09 patch, but it does not work. This is the single-most game-ruining aspect of Emperor, and it's a *huge*, incredibly frustrating issue that will never be corrected. You should know this before purchasing Emperor.

The "tactical world map" that you mentioned is irrelevant. If you try to take every territory on the map, you will spend most of your time defending territoreis that you have *already* captured, repeatedly, over and over and over again. You get one turn to attack, then the computer can attack you twice (two AI Houses, each with a turn to attack you on the map every time you have one turn to attack a territory). Therefore chances are that for everyone one territory you capture, the computer will attack a territory that you have *already* captured, and the computer will do this twice before you have a chance to attack again. This means you will be playing on the exact same maps several dozen times over and over again until you are sick to death of them, with no mission goals or voice acting at all in those missions.

Emperor is Dune 2 with better graphics, but a much worse overall design. Dune 2 did not have bugs. Emperor is full of bugs that ruin the gameplay. Emperor is half-baked, Dune 2 was not.

Some thing that any veteran of Dune 2 will absolutely *hate* about Emperor is that you can only build one type of vehicle at a time. Instead of having a heavy and light factory for different types of vehicles, you only get one factory, so you can not build both types of vehicles at the same time and that *really* makes the gameplay a lot worse than it would be if you could build light and heavy vehicles at the exact same time like you can in Dune 2. Also, the repair pads are gone, unlike in Dune 2 where ADV Carryalls would automatically pick up any damaged vehicle and put it on your repair pad for you. That is another thing you are really gonna miss in Emperor.

finely agree with you on something Nav. ;D<but not on all that you said.

i will give you my opinion. the good with the bad. Also nav has been posting bad stuff about the game for a long time now. :P look back a page or two. anyway back to my post.

first the bad part of emper then the good part.

Rengade is 100% better. and Emper does have bugs. and there are better games out there. and if u play it Online you will have to deal with cheaters and bugs. if WW<West Wood> hasn't done shut the Online down by then. but then again its has its good sides to! ;D

here is 3 bugs you will find<besides what nav named> and then the good part.<mostly the same bug>

1 aircraft.

you can have any aircraft at the edge of the map. and the enemy CAN"T kill them. or even fire a shot. if you where to use a unit called a air drone. <remember the carryalls from dune2000 ???> well they can shot it down with this bug.

2 ADP <air defence planform> < i think i was the first the find it ;D>

the ADP bug is a super bad one. you can Build 1. and put it to the edge of the map. and the ADP can shoot at the Ground. <read bug 1> and you can Kill BASES without the enemy being abale to fire 1 shot. has long as its at the map edge.

3 APC drop

they can also use the air bug for an apc drop.

now for the good part.

1 Other Players.

online play! some might be about to move up to the game you are. and you might be able to tell somebody else about a free game.<a wulfram players? ;D>

but most other good games has this to. :-

2 stratages.

ever wished you could do an enginer drop on dune2000? :) well on here you can. and take over there MCV and its fun!

3 campians.

there is lots of time <about 48 hours MAX stright thogh.

4 just plan fun!

Building an army attacking useing aircraft! and a 4 or 5 more!

Well its up to you from here. get it or get a game like Rengade or something. but like i said its my opinion.

[Frodo_I]

I played this game for about 8 months before i got bored of it. Since i can't read your mind i can only tell you what motivated me with the game. Hope that helpsWhen i first started the game ww was no longer supporting the game. BUt, the game has a small, dedicated community that is allways happy to help with opinions/shortcut keys/strategies/ etc. I never played more than one campaign on the game, the reason being that in campaign you only have access to certain units, and certain missions within certain territories. I don't like that, i want to play every unit/building/map right after i take the game outa the box. I did view all the game movies via a video viewer and a decompressor program, the movies all had central themes, but different in the way the lead you to a conclusion. Kinda like one of those 20 different spy scenario books. You'll get to one of two endings eventually, but there's like 40 ways of getting their. In all i think there's about 30 moviesANyways, since i didn't play campaign much i went to multiplayer action. I first played skirmish games in which there is no rankings. Then i switched to the ranked "quick match" games. Since i was/am so competitive about games i quickly became immersed in the ranked games and didn't pull my head back out of that till i got prizes two or three times for my ranking in a given month.While playing the ranked games i was very concerned and helped to curtail cheating with the game. The reason why i helped is that ww doesn't support this game in any way but keeping the game server/switchboard alive. So any cheaters, or bugs, are here to stay, you have to learn your way around them, or dump the game.After getting bored with the rankings since so much cheating was going on, i got bored with the game, and no longer play it. But i still visit the board for replying to posts just such as yoursi should note that it took me about 4 months of playing ranked games (two or three of those months i even did quite well, meaning it was getting a little boring, but i still played and enjoyed) before i stopped interest in the game. So if your just looking for a game that will keep your interest for the summer, this one could if you can put up with the bugsAlso, from what i have heard, Emperor battle for dune has fewer bugs than alot of other ww games.As for the graphics i allways thought EBFD's graphics were the best i've seen yet in 3d games, that even includes WW's new "renegade" FPS game. The AI in EBFD is quite good except for the bugs, there's no unit cap for instance

[undsputed]

Navaros has the bugs down so well because that's his excuse list when he loses :P

Here is the good stuff:

-I thought it was damn cool when I first saw one of the huge worms shoot up vertically from the sand...I think that was the first time I took a screen shot. But now I usually play with living world off, so no worms.

-if you liked dune 2, this game is definitely for you

-the multiplayer isn't supported anymore really, but it is a lot of fun (thought this is the only game I have played online)

The bad stuff:

-if you do play online, you may eventually come across Navaros, who will refuse to be on your team until you have achieved top 10 status

-this is also the first game I have bought with which I experienced technical problems before I got it working correctly...make sure you buy it from a store which has a favorable return policy just in case

[DS_CL]

Hey Navaros, i don't know if this is what you meant, but you can move all of your units in one formation. I use it all the time because i used to experience the problem where my fast units always attack before my heavier ones. Hold J when issuing orders and they move in formation, and at the same speed. I don't know if thats what you meant.

Navaros is right about the bugs though. And it makes the game a little tedious. It gets frustrating when units sit still all the time because their lost. What gets annoying is when your harvesters stop for no reason. It seems to happen every time a leech comes, and it will just stop in a spice patch. If your don't watch for that, all of your harvesters will die from that one leech.

As for the rest of the game, I watched a friend of mine play and thought the graphics were awesome. I was playing Empire Earth at the time and thought the graphics to Emperor looked so much better. So He offered to play a game with me, and I've played ever since.

Others might not agree, but i think this is the best 3d RTS I've ever played. It offers some unique things that I've never seen in a game like this before. As someone else mentioned, the worm shooting up is worth a screenshot the first time you see it.

Westwood tried to make the single player more like a chess game, but screwed up entirely. I found it boring after beating the Ordos all the way through.

I still say it's a wonderful game, and I play it all the time. The graphics are worth the money. And for ten bucks, this is something you shouldn't pass up. Even for 30 bucks. If you like westwood games, which are always similar, this is a good game. And the fact that it has a lot of editing capability makes it fun to change things.

[Elite47]

you know you really shouldnt listen to nav. He loses a lot so he has to make up a new excuse everytime... this game is awesome. The graphics are good and the gameplay is awesome. There ARE some MINOR bugs but they dont ruin the game.

[Desert_Eagle25]

damn straight.

[Madluxan]

Since you're new to the boards, lemme clue you in on something.

Everytime Navaros loses a game, he storms onto these boards saying "DOWNGRADE THE ****ING [insert unit name here] WW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

The last time it was inkvines... Before that, I think it was the little AA trooper that Ordos has. Before that, it was missile tanks and how Harkonnen players "Abuse them". Before that, it was the Ix bombs. The list goes on ;) Anyway, if you let anything Nav says influence you, don't expect to get better at the game, since his strategies consist of-

Sitting at the QM screen for 4 hours waiting for a game.

If the player has a semi good QM record, he ducks the game and waits for another.

If he gets a player with a bad or non-existing QM rating, he goes on with the game.

If he starts to lose before 3 minutes, he quits the game and it results as the game not being played on the Westwood databases.

Sooooooo... As you can see, Nav doesn't have very many friends :)

[Navaros]

Most of you guys who say the pathfinding bugs don't drasticallly affect the game have *no idea* what you are talking about for either one of two reasons, or maybe a little of both:1. You guys use Ordos or Hark and you never even bother defending your spice. You take a loss for sure if anyone can mount an attack on your spice because you spend all your time right in your enemy's face, and if they are good enough to mount an attack on your spice it means your rush has failed, and your rush only fails against very very good players, and anyone who can defeat your rush can also defeat you. 2. You don't play QM extensively, so you don't have a diverse experience with Emperor on all the maps, and therefore have never experienced just how your economy commits suicide on you, guranteed, on certain (many) of the maps.As far as the other pathfinding bugs go, it's the same thing. If you don't understand them it's either because you don't have enough experience Emperor to have seen them, you are too inept to have seen them when they did occur, or you are so bent on rushing your enemy and always attacking that you never bother even defending your spice or base at all. Most of you "elite players" suck in the long game. You hardly even bother to build enough buildings. Your skill is largely limited to unit management and very lacking in terms of unit production, base management and defense, and spice management and defense. If you guys have a large force attacking your spice, you see it as a loss because you have nothing left to defend your spice. Therefore, you don't understand how the harvesting bugs ruin the game for people who actually bother to defend their spice, like me.

[Madluxan]

Yeah, ok. I have no idea what I'm talking about. That's why you ducked me all the time. Because I was a total newbie, right?

Seriously, you're one sorry person, Nav ;)

[Navaros]

Divine Wind link=board=7;threadid=3178;start=0#50000 date=1024981193]Yeah, ok. I have no idea what I'm talking about. That's why you ducked me all the time. Because I was a total newbie, right?Seriously, you're one sorry person, Nav ;)

You are right about that part where you said you have no idea what you are talking about. ;DYou may notice that I gave very specific information as to what the bugs are and how they ruin the game, yet everyone who disgreed said nothing more than "the bugs are minor". I wonder why they could not be specific as well as to how what I said was wrong, using just as detailed examples? Actually, I do *not* wonder because none of you can refute any of the specifics I have stated in this thread because they can all be easily proven by playing Emperor.

[Nyarlathotep]

I'm not saying you're completely wrong Nav, some consider the bugs minor, others major. But you have to admit, in all the time we know you, you haven't said one single positive thing about anything..

You might want to change that attitude :)

[Sh3llsh0ck]

Duckboy are you really that dumb, to believe most of the elite players cant even defend their spice.

Attacking the economy of someone is mostly the (only) way to defeat someone, and you think most of the elite players cant do that.

I dont think they would be elite then.

And you always overreact with everything, the bugs are there but there not that big.

I know the harvesting bug is annoying, but fu<k that, its nothing a little micromanagment cant handle.

[ken124578]

navaros, i found out that there can be an max. of like 3 harvesters (money collecters) on 1 spice field, IF you have more like you do (7refinery's and all upgrades = 21 harvesters) then you'll get some trouble with the harvester bug...

and btw. i enjoyed the single player par a lot and i never EVER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! got ANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 trouble with ANY!!!!!!!!!! bugs, and even today i got VERY LITTLE!!! trouble with the bugs in the game >:(

[undsputed]

I was an atr player for a long time and more recently hark, and I can say that I can't think of any game that I've lost because of a bug in the game. If I lose, I have the ****s to admit that the other person is probably better....it doesn't bother me. Maybe your game is jussst sooo well refined that all your losses come due to these bugs.....maybe.

And even if its hark and ordos players saying this, that still wouldn't explain why you didn't want to play atr players such as sarb. As atr, he should experience the same "problems" defending the spice. Then, there are players such as him and Thoxen who do just fine against hark and ordos players despite these "bugs."

In my opinion, these problems aren't reason to get upset or not buy the game. If you came to this message board, you must want to play the game ;D