Israel attacks "Free Gaza" flotilla

[Anathema]

I'm not going to give a link, I think we can assume everyone has already heard of this one way or another.

It seems that even if the activists were a bunch of violent provocateurs as Israel claims, the way Israel handled it is at best amateurish and embarrassing. And illegal according to international law.

So, thoughts?

[Edric O]

The only way that Israel could possibly show any more disregard for international opinion is if Benjamin Netanyahu posted YouTube videos of himself torturing kittens.

[Andrew]

Yep, if Israel had waited until they were in Israeli waters, then they could do whatever they wanted.

Instead they board the ship at night, in international waters. That's a great plan...

Basically Israel is giving what hamas etc want, which is a confrontation to make themselves look bad.

[athanasios]

I am really pissed off because among the activists were Greeks. They were tortured, injected chemicals, beaten violently by dozens and abducted. It is outrageous that the fascists of Israel demanded to take their fingerprints, as if they were criminals arrested in Israeli land.

Israel once again proved with its actions who are the present day terrorists and nazists. One more crime against humanity and civilized world.

And it is more outrageous that they provided a video to support their murders. To prove what? That they invaded "foreign land" (ship) and that they should meet no resistance?

Of course the matter is not so superficial. The Israelis had other reasons to attack the ship. It was not to stop the activists. Among the activists were ag... CENSORED (Whoever knows what is happening in East Mediterranean will understand what I mean). Personally, for these reasons I could say: "well they did", but NO, we are civilized people, this was extremely Barbarian.

[exatreide]

Thousands of Rockets have fallen on Israeli schools and Markets.

The Israeli's simply wanted to search the ships for weapons then send the aid over land. Which they did with every other ship in the group with no problems. The last ship refused to stop. When Israeli troops armed with PAINTBALL guns were lowered onto the ship they were met with violence and aggression. The soldiers acted in self defense for a nation that is under constant threat from Rockets and attack. 

This as a planned propaganda stunt. 

[Andrew]

This as a planned propaganda stunt. 

Why couldn't Israel wait until the ship was in Israeli waters, or board it in the daytime?

You don't think that what Israelis did would anger and maybe get more of the passengers to attack them intentionally?

[ErasOmnius]

I am really pissed off because among the activists were Greeks. They were tortured, injected chemicals, beaten violently by dozens and abducted. It is outrageous that the fascists of Israel demanded to take their fingerprints, as if they were criminals arrested in Israeli land.

Israel once again proved with its actions who are the present day terrorists and nazists. One more crime against humanity and civilized world.

And it is more outrageous that they provided a video to support their murders. To prove what? That they invaded "foreign land" (ship) and that they should meet no resistance?

Of course the matter is not so superficial. The Israelis had other reasons to attack the ship. It was not to stop the activists. Among the activists were ag... CENSORED (Whoever knows what is happening in East Mediterranean will understand what I mean). Personally, for these reasons I could say: "well they did", but NO, we are civilized people, this was extremely Barbarian.

Easy with the Nazi and fascist talk...

[Dante]

How did paintball guns kill nine people?

[exatreide]

They landed with paintballs as their primary weapons. When they were being beaten to death by the Mob, they switched over to their secondary side arms.

Which shot bullets.

[SandChigger]

Which shot bullets.

Not matzo balls?! :O

Meh. Let's see if y'all still get excited about Israelis killing people when you've been hearing it for nearly half a century. ::)

In Chapterhouse: Dune, over 25,000 years from now, "Secret Israel" hides in fear for its life. There are days when that actually makes a lot of sense.

[Dante]

So what you're saying is that soldiers attacked with paintball guns, tear gas and the like, and were somehow surprised when the people who were attacked defended themselves with bars and table legs. So surprised were they, in fact, that the poor attackers had to resort to live ammunition.

Israel justifies its various war crimes as self defence. Funny how the self defence of Israel is reason enough to shoot people, yet others defending themselves is reason enough to shoot them. I can't help but feel that there is a contradiction in there.

[ErasOmnius]

Sadly, Israel has become trigger happy, but that how it is when many of the nations surrounding it won't recognize its' right to exist.

The life of average Palestinian has gone down dramatically since Fatah and Hamas took over governing its' people.

And even though 15-20% of the world's hard currency flows through the Middle East because of oil and natural gas, there is still no real vibrant middle class. The same old Shiekdoms and class system exists in 40% of the Middle Eastern world.

[Edric O]

Thousands of Rockets have fallen on Israeli schools and Markets.

Yes, and thousands of Israeli bombs and shells have fallen on Palestinian schools and markets. Neither side has any claim to moral superiority. Therefore, whatever is acceptable for one side to do is also acceptable for the other. And whatever is unacceptable for one side to do is also unacceptable for the other.

So, would it be acceptable for Palestinians to stop shipments to Israel in order to search them for weapons, and maybe kill a few people in the process?

The Israeli's simply wanted to search the ships for weapons then send the aid over land. Which they did with every other ship in the group with no problems. The last ship refused to stop. When Israeli troops armed with PAINTBALL guns were lowered onto the ship they were met with violence and aggression. The soldiers acted in self defense for a nation that is under constant threat from Rockets and attack.

Umm, the soldiers had no right to board the ship in the first place. The people on the ship were the ones acting in self-defense.

Yes, I understand that Israel is under threat. But that does not give it the right to do anything to anyone for the sake of its national security. No country has that right. I mean, think about it: if every country could stop and search any ship in international waters suspected of delivering weapons to its enemies, there would be total chaos. All shipping to the Korean peninsula would grind to a halt, for one thing. India and Pakistan would wreak havoc on each other's ships. Iran and the US could legally blockade each other. And so on.

[vota dc]

What a stupid act of piracy!

I am not sure that Israel is so stupid. Why Israel didn't wait the ship to go in territorial water?

From what I know military never pay in Israel while the politicians do (while in Italy even if they are found guilty they never leave their seat...you need three degree of trials). Maybe NetaMIAO (sorry I can't spell his name so I pretend that he is a cat) is not very popular (even Clinton did propaganda against him and this time Likud haven't the majority)  and military want a scandal to force him to leave the government.

[athanasios]

The Israeli's simply wanted to search the ships for weapons then send the aid over land. Which they did with every other ship in the group with no problems. The last ship refused to stop. When Israeli troops armed with PAINTBALL guns were lowered onto the ship they were met with violence and aggression. The soldiers acted in self defense for a nation that is under constant threat from Rockets and attack.

This as a planned propaganda stunt.

You know something? I will come to steal your house. I will bring a gift and break your door. When you attack me to protect your belongings and your family I will shoot you in self defense.

But a piece of information you provided is enlightening. Thanks for that.

Alas how much ignorance in this thread. ::)

What a stupid act of piracy!

I am not sure that Israel is so stupid. Why Israel didn't wait the ship to go in territorial water?...

No my friend. It was not an act of piracy, neither a stupid one. They knew exactly what they were doing. Please all of YOU go read again my initial post. Carefully! The hint in this post may help you understand.  If not, sorry I won't explain more. There exist reliable sources of information around and not just the junk offered by the mainstream media. But it needs some effort...

[SandChigger]

Alas how much ignorance in this thread. ::)

Well, you could stop posting in it. That would help reduce the iggy density over time. ;)

[Andrew]

An Israeli member of parliament was on the boat that was boarded and says the Israeli navy account of what happened is incorrect.

EDIT:

Gaza flotilla raid pushes unknown Knesset member into spotlight

And others want that person to resign.

Ms. Zoabi was aboard the Mavi Marmara, one of six ships in the so-called Freedom Flotilla that attempted to break Israel's three-year blockade on the Gaza Strip and bring in 10,000 tons of humanitarian supplies. She was detained, along with more than 600 others, when Israeli naval forces rerouted all six ships to Ashdod port.

Since the incident, the Israeli Foreign Ministry has launched an intense media campaign, posting videos on its website and YouTube that portray its soldiers as victims of pre-meditated violence from activists aboard the Mavi Marmara.

I'm pretty sure Israel pre meditated to board the ships in international waters.

If they boats did have lots of weapons, why couldn't they be searched in Israeli waters? Would the would be terrorists throw all the weapons overboard? If so mission accomplished, no weapons to worry about if they are at the bottom of the sea.

Her address to the Israeli Knesset was repeatedly interrupted by Jewish lawmakers calling her a traitor and shouting, "Go to Gaza, traitor!"

Yah, I'm sorry but Israel is in the wrong for this incident. Cover up.

[SandChigger]

You gotta love that ole "If you're not with us, you're agin us!" way of thinking! :D

But I will give the Israeli Jews one thing: at least they're not hypocritical in the same way as their heretical former coreligionists ("Christians") who espouse the same idea. None of that smarmy pretend niceness in Judaism! ;)

[Wolf]

Gotta love that

[Caid Ivik]

You gotta love that ole "If you're not with us, you're agin us!" way of thinking! :D

But I will give the Israeli Jews one thing: at least they're not hypocritical in the same way as their heretical former coreligionists ("Christians") who espouse the same idea. None of that smarmy pretend niceness in Judaism! ;)

It seems to me group-think is not only usual within the armed forces, but also wished for.

[ErasOmnius]

You gotta love that ole "If you're not with us, you're agin us!" way of thinking! :D

But I will give the Israeli Jews one thing: at least they're not hypocritical in the same way as their heretical former coreligionists ("Christians") who espouse the same idea. None of that smarmy pretend niceness in Judaism! ;)

Are you trying to say that the right-wing oriented political parties of the West are Christian?

[Tatar Khan]

If they boats did have lots of weapons, why couldn't they be searched in Israeli waters? Would the would be terrorists throw all the weapons overboard? If so mission accomplished, no weapons to worry about if they are at the bottom of the sea.

Yah, I'm sorry but Israel is in the wrong for this incident. Cover up.

Well the first problem is that what is international and territorial waters. There are different treaties that put the limits at different distances as the territorial waters. During Cold War the Soviet Union and US used the definition of territotrial waters at 12 km zone. Now that doesn't mean that other countries should follow this default rule.

The reason they boarded in international waters is because Hamas could send out small boats to meet the Flotilla and just take the necessary cargo of the ships before they reach territorial waters to be searched. Just look at Somalia's pirates and how far they venture out.

Finally Israel maybe wanted to find the weapons and capture them in order to use this fact to block any future "Freedom flotillas" on the basis that they are weapon smugglers.

As for use of firearms there is hardly an excuse of self defense. There appears to have been at least an Israel

[Andrew]

The reason they boarded in international waters is because Hamas could send out small boats to meet the Flotilla and just take the necessary cargo of the ships before they reach territorial waters to be searched. Just look at Somalia's pirates and how far they venture out.

I thought of that, but I assumed Israel would have lots of boats nearby to monitor all traffic to and from the fleet.

And if in international waters, some hamas boat goes and picks up or delivers weapons, I assume Israel would have monitored the boat to see if it ever enters their water, and if so then it would be searched (or search any boats going to/from the fleet).

From what I've read Turkey has been friendly towards Israel, and now Israel pissed off one of the only 'friends' they had in the region.

There was a lot of different people on those boats from various countries (3 Canadians). It wasn't all hamas terrorists. Of course on the boat when they were airing on tv before boarding, some of the radicals were calling for Israel destruction.

EDIT:

There is still one boat heading towards Gaza.

Irish aid boat holds course towards Gaza despite Israel warning

Wonder if Israel will board the ship in international waters at night time. Then complain when passengers defend themselves.

Couldn't Israel guide the boat to gaza and search it?

Or does Israel not want to do this and deter anyone from trying to access Gaza?

Sure there were some crazy martyrs on the boat (some of whom died), but why antagonize them to make Israel look bad?

Forget if pointed out that Hamas rejected the aid when Israel tried to deliver it.

Fun picture time:

[exatreide]

It's a combined Egyptian and Israeli Blockade

[Andrew]

American (Turkish) shot 4 times in the head, once in the chest at close range

omfg those aid boats are coming right for us!