Do me this dignity, a final word

[Andrew]

I Love the whole "Masacre those who insult Islam" pic, as Islam is the religion of peace. Oh the Irony.

[Acriku]

I Love the whole "Masacre those who insult Islam" pic, as Islam is the religion of peace. Oh the Irony.

A couple Muslims out of 1 billion Muslims. Yeah, they really do speak for the rest of the people  ::)

[alchemi2]

It is the image that is portraid that helps the majority of people formulate their opinions not the nuances of text or interpretation of individual passages of books.

Bigotry, racism, credism  are all still rife within society, failure to recognise the realities around you,just brands you an academic out of touch with the ordinary public.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/worldhaveyoursay/2006/10/on_air_veiled_comments.html

One of the latest controversy in my region...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6040016.stm

[TMA_1]

those that take the quran literally will generally have "extreme" points of view to many people of the secular west. Those that do not take the quran as literally as others are many, but it would be unwise to say that those who do take the scriptures literally are a small radical few. The "few" talked of are large, large enough to pose a problem, especially in europe. I think people who automatically shut down others who find a danger in this do so out of a sort of PC dogma, they feel that anyone who would speak of dangers of an extreme interpritation are stirring strife, and that kind of blanket statement can be just as dangerous at times as a radical perception of faith.

[SpiceGuid]

Actually in Europe they are numerous enough so that:

* being jew is not so safe

* you carefully consider your audience before bragging about being pro-american

* in many places being a young woman means it's wiser to dress rather strict

That's not racism, that's small probability times millions, in Europe arabs are too numerous that you can ignore the risk. I say the risk but actually the menace would be a more appropriate word. That's not about the quran, not even about religion, religion is only a rally flag to claim more community rights. That's much larger, that's pro-palestinians versus the west. French arabs agress french jews. You think all agressors are muslim arabs? If so you are wrong, many are non-practicing arabs seduced by pro-palestinianism. Actually many become less violent as they start practicing (many convert in prisons). Too many pro-palestinians. A few will end in taking the scriptures literally. But that's the tip of the iceberg, pro-palestinianism nurtures violence, not all Islam, not only some extreme Islam.

Restrospectively, the French position was a safe collective move that has a freedom cost, to be paid individually, everyday.

[nemafakei]

[modhat]

"in Europe arabs are too numerous that you can ignore the risk"

Having brownish skin does not make you violent, and claiming that it does *is* racism. If you believe supporters of palaestine are necessarily violent, that's something you can just about debate, but criticising people based on their innate features will not be tolerated.

[/modhat]

"being jew is not so safe

Very true.

"you carefully consider your audience before bragging about being pro-american"

Dunno about the continent, but here you carefully consider your audience before bragging about being a socialist.

"in many places being a young woman means it's wiser to dress rather strict"

Well I've lived in rural areas that are 97% or more white, and the same is quite true there.

"That's much larger, that's pro-palestinians versus the west."

Um, do you have any evidence? Any reason why you think that's the case? Or are you just going to brand an entire half of a debate as violent?

[SpiceGuid]

No racism here. I do not believe supporters of palaestine are necessarily violent. The danger is not the persons you talk to but their propensity to reapeat what you say, that's a huge multiplier one has to take into account. I remember in a sport club, being with a good friend of me and talking with three arab practitionners. The historical debate of the day was torture during Algeria independance war. I was confident and i told something like "torture existed in both camps". The reply was a calm "Yes, but french military torturing algerians outnumbers the opposite". But the week later when i returned to the sport club i have been surrounded by numerous arabs mostly never seen before and was pressed with questions "What exactly have you said last week? Are you anti-Algerian? Do you support french tortures in Algeria?".

I could only safe my way by "admitting" french torture was agression whereas algerian torture was "resistance". That's the result of arabs talking to eachother when they should respect privacy.

Recently, in the street, i passed a guy with outrageous piercings, obviously gay.

Woow, i was really impressed, this guy is incredibly courageous.

Dunno about the continent, but here you carefully consider your audience before bragging about being a socialist.

Not a problem here.

[Acriku]

No racism here. I do not believe supporters of palaestine are necessarily violent. The danger is not the persons you talk to but their propensity to reapeat what you say, that's a huge multiplier one has to take into account. I remember in a sport club, being with a good friend of me and talking with three arab practitionners. The historical debate of the day was torture during Algeria independance war. I was confident and i told something like "torture existed in both camps". The reply was a calm "Yes, but french military torturing algerians outnumbers the opposite". But the week later when i returned to the sport club i have been surrounded by numerous arabs mostly never seen before and was pressed with questions "What exactly have you said last week? Are you anti-Algerian? Do you support french tortures in Algeria?".

I could only safe my way by "admitting" french torture was agression whereas algerian torture was "resistance". That's the result of arabs talking to eachother when they should respect privacy.

Recently, in the street, i passed a guy with outrageous piercings, obviously gay.

Woow, i was really impressed, this guy is incredibly courageous.

Not a problem here.

So you got asked by several Arabs you didn't know about what you said the previous week? You're right, it's not safe in France for anyone anymore ::) The day we can put a stop to the other side of the debate from asking questions is the day our true independence begins.

[GUNWOUNDS]

So you got asked by several Arabs you didn't know about what you said the previous week? You're right, it's not safe in France for anyone anymore ::) The day we can put a stop to the other side of the debate from asking questions is the day our true independence begins.

Acriku... knock it off.. they were using intimidation tactics by surrounding him, outnumbering and forcing him to eat his words through intimidation.  It wasnt debate and you know it.   Lets see you go to a bar in Harlem and get surrounded by some brothers who want to "debate",  I'd love to see the look on their faces when you accuse them of using a strawman, then the next morning your body is found in a dumpster, stuffed full of straw.   Hurray for debate from the opposition!!  ::)  I'd rather stick my dick in a cheese grater that  "debate" with most of the common fools you find on the street.  I only debate on these forums because most "normal" people you meet on the street are complete idiots,  or ignorant of 99% of all issues.  Its a shame that someone of Spiceguild's caliber had to eat his own words due to some intimidation by ignorant thugs. 

Guns

[nemafakei]

"I'd rather stick my dick in a cheese grater that  "debate" with most of the common fools you find on the street."

Wow, class prejudice is alive and well in the USA! I take it from your demeanour you've never considered lowering yourself to discuss anything with 'common people'. But seriously, you should try it. Perhaps not every single person you meet will have a keen grasp of electoral statistics over the past dozen years, but that doesn't mean you can't have interesting (and occasionally very detailed) political discussions with normal, working-class people.

[Acriku]

Acriku... knock it off.. they were using intimidation tactics by surrounding him, outnumbering and forcing him to eat his words through intimidation.  It wasnt debate and you know it.  Lets see you go to a bar in Harlem and get surrounded by some brothers who want to "debate",  I'd love to see the look on their faces when you accuse them of using a strawman, then the next morning your body is found in a dumpster, stuffed full of straw.  Hurray for debate from the opposition!!  ::)  I'd rather stick my dick in a cheese grater that  "debate" with most of the common fools you find on the street.  I only debate on these forums because most "normal" people you meet on the street are complete idiots,  or ignorant of 99% of all issues.  Its a shame that someone of Spiceguild's caliber had to eat his own words due to some intimidation by ignorant thugs. 

Guns

It was in a bar that he was familiar with, and from what he said they did nothing but ask questions. They may have been intimidating, but who doesn't try to be in public when they get tiffed? Thugs? Hardly. Ignorant? No reason to believe that.

[lowzeewee]

Gunwounds is living in his own world.

[GUNWOUNDS]

"I'd rather stick my dick in a cheese grater that  "debate" with most of the common fools you find on the street."

Wow, class prejudice is alive and well in the USA! I take it from your demeanour you've never considered lowering yourself to discuss anything with 'common people'. But seriously, you should try it. Perhaps not every single person you meet will have a keen grasp of electoral statistics over the past dozen years, but that doesn't mean you can't have interesting (and occasionally very detailed) political discussions with normal, working-class people.

You wouldnt believe the amount of prejudice and ignorance i encounter on the streets.  You see i am not at all that hostile on the streets.... i'm actually a nice easy going guy.  I am also a good listener.  So people open up to me and usually tell me more info about their beliefs and ideas than they should.  I listen and i think to myself "wow what an idiot".   

So you see .... I'm not a condescending asshole that doesnt talk to people..... oh i talk alright... and i listen carefully.... i just dont debate.... because debating with an ignorant person is like trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.

How does the saying go?   You cant reason a man out of something he didnt reason himself into.

Another reason its not good to debate with a ignorant person is because you might overwhelm them with your knowledge and intellect on the subject... thereby making them agree with you out of sheer awe of your competence on the subject... even though you might not be 100% correct.  So the danger of debating with a common person is not only will they possibly irrationally argue with you for the sake of arguing when you are correct... but they might just convert like a dumb sheep to your cause for the wrong reason simply because they were not intelligent enough to offer a proper rebuttal. Meaning they wont convert to your beliefs because they truly understand you are right... they will just agree due to embarassment/intimidation of their own ignorance.

And the reason i called them thugs is because Spiceguild said "the only safe way i could make for myself"  ... and ... "" i saw this gay guy walk in... how courageous"   ... i took this to mean he was actually worried for his safety and for the safety of the aforementioned homosexual.  Which isnt too much of a stretch as people get knifed, shot, and whatever else on a daily basis.

Furthermore, when i have listened to people with no college education its very frustrating.... like some guy told me that he thought the catholic church was wrong because of its "antartica thing"  .... he was trying to say the word "Hierarchy" .... i just sat there and nodded at him as if he had said the right word.  But he didnt say anymore as thats all he had to say.  Yea i sure wish i had sat down with him and debated complex theology with that genius. NOT!  Another time i met a guy who was an arab and all he had was negative stuff to say about Israel.  He basically justified terrorism and said its ok for people to attack israelis and that israelis were the evil terrorists.  Boy i sure wish i had tried to discuss middle eastern foreign policy with him.... NOT!   I have plenty more stories if you'd like.. but alas i dont feel like posting them all as they would crash the forums with its massive volume of stupidity.

I dont mind debating with educated people because atleast they have some sort of baseline competency.  Lowzeewee, if patronizing stupid people and not confronting them about their ignorance... and only discussing intellectual things with educated  people classifies me as living in "my own world"  ....then I guess you showed me !

[GUNWOUNDS]

It was in a bar that he was familiar with, and from what he said they did nothing but ask questions. They may have been intimidating, but who doesn't try to be in public when they get tiffed? Thugs? Hardly. Ignorant? No reason to believe that.

Quote:

I could only safe my way by "admitting" french torture was agression whereas algerian torture was "resistance". That's the result of arabs talking to eachother when they should respect privacy.

The fact that spiceguild had to speak this phrase to make them happy..... shows that they are ignorant fools.

Guns

[nemafakei]

"You cant reason a man out of something he didnt reason himself into."

If you say so...

[GUNWOUNDS]

"You cant reason a man out of something he didnt reason himself into."

If you say so...

Lets keep it civil shall we? .... i believe you had the wrong impression of me as not speaking to people about anything... I addressed that as being incorrect.  If dont want to address anything specific i said in my examples then lets move on.

Nema said : "but that doesn't mean you can't have interesting (and occasionally very detailed) political discussions with normal, working-class people."

Guns: sure if they have some level of education and class, and i have met such people..... unfortunately they are hard to find.  You can criticize my patronization of ignorant people, but know this.... i listen to them before i pass judgement on whether to patronize them or engage them.  So i think thats fair.  Actually it seems like common sense to me..... i cant understand why you are even arguing with me, unless your last post was a face saving one.

Guns

[Khan]

Why not try to educate all these stupid people you seem to meet about some of the issues at hand. Of course making sure you don't use too many intellectual words, wouldn't want them in awe of your genius.

[alchemi2]

http://satiricalmuslim.wordpress.com

For those that doubted Muslims have a sense of humour.  ::) ;)

[Davidu]

@SpiceGuid: you were talking at past tense. I mean there is no French Military right now in Algeria, is it?

[Andrew]

The anti Israel cartoon contest is over.

Winner:

I don't exactly understand it. Could someone explain?

http://www.irancartoon.com/

contest results page

Why havn't Jews across the world started to riot and burn embassies etc?

I mean these are pictures insulting their religion/culture. The only solution is to riot. At least that is what the Muslims did after spreading the anti-muslim cartoons themselves.

Something makes me think they just want attention. It was a Danish person who drew the cartoons, yet they held an anti-Israel cartoon contest...

[The_Sadukar]

I am not sure, but I think the picture on the wall is from one of the German extermination camps from the second world war. Thus the picture may imply that the Israeli are confining the Palestinians to a very large extermination camp. (The mosque appears to be walled in)

[Anathema]

It's probably (bad) satire on the walls the Israelis plan to construct to shield their settlements from Palestinians, the picture on the wall would suggest that they use their victim role to get away with stuff like that.

[Andrew]

So basically Israel is building a Berlin wall around Palestinians?

Interesting.

[erjin999]

Isnt that meant to be the Auswitz (sic :P) picture ? The railway lines give it away for me.

So basically to say that as was done to the Jews, they are now doing to the palestinians.

[Dunenewt]

So basically Israel is building a Berlin wall around Palestinians?

Interesting.

Berlin Wall was after WW2, this wall is referring to Nazi Extermination Camps during WW2.