Muhammad Cartoons Censored

[Mihail]

This is the first time I'm actually hoping that the USA will just nuke the whole Middle East.

Pfft. Why would you hope for that? Are you really that biased and angry against Islam? Let us remember the Crusades and the Middle Ages. Speaking out against Christ and Christianity as a whole would get you excommunicated by the Church, or most probably worse. Then are the Crusades; hundreds of thousands of people went on a holy war to take Jerusalem back from the Muslims. How's that for overreacting? But what i wanted to say was this: The Muslims protesting those cartoons are like Middle-Age Christians; I'm not saying that they're less evolved or more barbaric than we are, just that they take their religion very seriously. If you don't like it, well, too bad, since a newspaper printed those cartoons, and they have a right to the freedom of press and spech, so you can start lobbying for restrictions on what newspapers print or something, but don't just go around telling everyone that you hope that the USA will nuke the Middle East. Not all of the Muslims and Arabs are protesting; it would be like saying that you hope somebody would nuke France because of those race riots there.

[veK]

who actually cares if not all of them are protesting, they think WE ALL are evil.

war isn't the right way, but if I'm honest, that map picture I posted doesn't look that bad to me.

[attachment deleted by Gobalopper]

[Mihail]

who actually cares if not all of them are protesting, they think WE ALL are evil.

war isn't the right way, but if I'm honest, that map picture I posted doesn't look that bad to me.

What? Who cares that they all aren't protesting? What the hell is wrong with you, are you really this simple-minded? There are throusands, if not hundreds of thousands of 'moderate' Muslims in the Middle East, meaning that although they abide by most Muslim laws, they sometimes bend or break them and don't follow the rules of Islam as nearly as stictly as those Muslims who you see protesting. A prime example is the Kurds of the northern part of Iraq. I recently saw a documentary on them, and they live almost nothing like those hard-line Muslims. I saw girls at the local university, in jean shorts and tank-tops, flirting with guys, people at the market in normal Western clothes, and it lookde like something you would see in L.A. or a similar place, except for it being in the middle of the desert. Jesus Christ, stop basing your views of people on a small group of psycho devout Muslims. Following your logic, we should bomb Germany because there are Neo-Nazi's there, right? They think all jews are evil, so we should wipe out a whole country, since by your logic, they would represent the whole country. While we're at it, let's get rid of the UK, since there are Muslims there too. And what about Latvia? There are nationalists who have some sort of vendetta against Russia, even though the USSR occupied Latvia nearly 60 years ago, and it's all in the past. And we can't forget America, they have the Ku Klux Klan! Come to think of it, let's throw in the whole of Europe, and China, too(since they dislike Taiwan).

Stop being so narrow-minded, and think about your replies before it backfires on you. ::)

but if I'm honest, that map picture I posted doesn't look that bad to me

By the way, that is one stupid statement. If you nuked the Middle East, think about the centuries of culture that would vanish. For Chrissake, the middle East was one of the birthplaces of mathematics, astronomy, music, a little bit of everything! Jerusalem is in the Middle East; so we should nuke it too,even though it was pretty much the birthplace of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam! If you don't care about history and culture and architecture and the past, go ahead, bomb away. Go live with your cool gadgets and widgets and new mobile-computer phones and cars and internet and PDA's. But I, for one, do care about these kinds of things, and I'm sure most of the rest of the world does too. >:(

[veK]

this isn't about logic anymore.

I'd just like to get rid of every religion on earth, and hey... why don't start with islam?

it's not about the people, I just hate religion. people should believe whatever they want and I don't care but as soon as they start to build up communities, churches (of any kind) and have leaders this all becomes insane and has nothing to do with belief in my opinion. If you believe in something you don't need special places for this. Or special gurus to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. wicked thing is: when a child is born he/she hasn't even the chance to decide, because the culture forces it to listen to the religious stuff they think is the right deal. at school, at home... everywhere. that's the same way everywhere, I had to listen to that crap at school for years until I could get out of those courses.

and I didn't say nuke them. I said war isn't the right way. And I just said that map doesn't look that bad to me.

maybe mother earth sends over some big tsunami waves, earthquakes and other presents.

and your comment on germany: yah, sure, why not. there are a lot of people here I don't like. Actually I don't like 99% of them. that's why I wanna emigrate as soon as possible.  :)

[Mihail]

Ok, fine, I can tolerate your views when you put it that way. It's just that when people say that America should nuke the Middle East or that a map with the whole Middle East wiped out doesn't look bad to them is when I get pissed.

Concerning religion; I agree with you on some punts and disagree with you on others. Just to keep it short, I'll post only one or two examples for my arguments.

Yes, religion does make some people crazy and fanatical, like we are witnessing in these protests, but without religion, I think our society would be less evolved now. Remember Rome, the center of the civilised European world a long time ago? It was invaded and ransacked by barbarians(I don't know the exact time period and won't bother looking it up, since I'm pressed for time), and after that, the Catholic church was the only body of power that was keeping order in Rome. Without them, I'm sure th barbarians would have just ransacked and destroyde Rome and the regular people, without someone to look up to or follow, would fall into disarray and the cultural and technological advances would stop or maybe even fall back down a few centuries. :-X So religion, IMO, isn't all that bad.

[erjin999]

who actually cares if not all of them are protesting, they think WE ALL are evil.

war isn't the right way, but if I'm honest, that map picture I posted doesn't look that bad to me.

And you call them extremists ?  :-

[veK]

I call the whole "religion" extreme. how they treat women, how regimes forbid things all over the country, how they punish people (people are complaining about lethal injections in the u.s. - what's stoning then?) and how they don't tolerate any other religion (take a look at schoolbooks in an islam country, the children already have to learn right from the beginning how evil jews and christians are) - but they expect us to tolerate them and their religion.

[Jack Leaf]

Pfft. Why would you hope for that? Are you really that biased and angry against Islam? Let us remember the Crusades and the Middle Ages. Speaking out against Christ and Christianity as a whole would get you excommunicated by the Church, or most probably worse. Then are the Crusades; hundreds of thousands of people went on a holy war to take Jerusalem back from the Muslims. How's that for overreacting? But what i wanted to say was this: The Muslims protesting those cartoons are like Middle-Age Christians; I'm not saying that they're less evolved or more barbaric than we are, just that they take their religion very seriously.

Well, actually, I dislike pretty much everyone that is a Muslim.

Anyway, I stated in my previous post that I acknowledge the fact that Christianity in the Middle Ages very was much like the Islam extremisty of today (is that an actual word?), but hello? We're now living the year 2006; Muslims should already cross the gorge between them and the whole damned world instead of us social-devolutionising back to their level. See, I told that I would be satisfied if the Middle East was blown up. I'm already becoming like them!

Human is a violent animal. I can confess in peace that I feel like slaughtering those around me every day - fine, I suppose that doesn't really count since I'm not entirely sane (according to the psychiatrics), but still, we all do have an interest in violence. That, however, doesn't mean that we should live by our violence drive, just like we don't live entirely by our sex drive (read = most men don't go around raping women). When entire groups go as far as setting one million dollar reward for a murder, it's not just right!

If you don't like it, well, too bad, since a newspaper printed those cartoons, and they have a right to the freedom of press and spech, so you can start lobbying for restrictions on what newspapers print or something, but don't just go around telling everyone that you hope that the USA will nuke the Middle East. Not all of the Muslims and Arabs are protesting; it would be like saying that you hope somebody would nuke France because of those race riots there.

Yes, I do hope that France would be nuked. All right - it would satisfy me enough if the government was disabled and saying "think about the positive things the colonisation brought" would be outlawed.

I also did state in my earlier posts that the Muslims have their right to say their opinion. The problem is, that, they do not have free speech... they can bash "the western world" all they want but once they say something's wrong in Islam, bang, the guardians of faith strike.

While my wish of Middle East being nuked is a little exaggerated, and I apologise I couldn't restain saying it, Islam is still quite messed-up religion (I'm not saying other religions weren't). As a mild-feminist (I believe in equality, although I have some feminist views), I'm especially annoyed how women are treated like filth. Certainly, women are still discriminated in other parts of the world, too, but what's happening in Middle East is so disgusting that it makes me see RED! RED LIKE BLOOD!

...ahem.

Besides, if Middle Eeast ceased to exist, so would Israel. I could live with that.

[exatreide]

I could not, isreal is the sea of sanity over there.

[Kiyouta]

Yes, let's just nuke the fucking middle east! What a great idea!

I'll vow most of you know shit about Islam or the values it portrays, so your opinions of the majority of Muslims are inaccurately extrapolated, null and void. As, to an extent, are mine.

What we have here is an issue of tolerance. We tolerate Islam to the extent of allowing the religon-side of it to be practised. As far as I know there are no Islamic laws in use in the 'West'. Islam and Islamic states tolerate Christianity to an extent (oh yes they do) BUT Islamic Law takes priority. The conflict occurs when our laws of largely secular democracies clash with Islamic Law (which states thou shalt not draw funny pictures of Muhammad). Obviously those people causing the protests and demonstrations are lacking the tolerance to appreciate the nature of the freedom of speech which our laws claim to favour - but also the cartoonists, to publish such a controversial image in a PUBLIC newspaper are too lacking in tolerance for other nations' constitutional laws which state such imagery is wrong. Unfortunately (or rather, fortunately), being not a Muslim, I cannot defend violence against Western institutions for the sake of a satrical picture of a so-called prophet.

That does not justify me hating a whole group of people because of a few extremists. As far as I can see, there are two paths which can be taken by Muslims. ONE: Modernisation. Hey why not? It worked for Christianity, although partly only because it split into different churches. Since there is no centralised figure of power like the Pope in Islam, I cannot see this happening. Yet modernisation will still occur, through the prosperity of liberal Muslims in European and Western states and also in liberal Islamic states (such as Kuwait). The other path? Give the extremists what they want - a Jihad. Hey that's their ultimate goal, might as well come out with it. Cannot see all out war happening though BECAUSE there is no single voice of authority in Islam. Hate to say this but terrorism existed before September 11th, 2001 so yes of course terrorism will be a factor. Cannot see Iran using Atomic weapons, but I can see it being invaded if the U.S. or U.N. deems it necessary. Aww so no Jihad? Ahh crap. No point getting so pissed off now. :(

So who is going to win in this? Probably no-one in particular. The loosers? Most people, and hopefully religon, unless God decides to insert another coin.

P.S. Muslims are, believe it or not, people too. Perhaps those who clearly dislike them as a group should meet one at some point. You'll be amazed.

[Jack Leaf]

You're missing the point about freedom of speech. If I was a nazi, I would have the right to say my beliefs, no matter how much it would disturb other people. If somebody wants to draw a picture of Mohammed, he has the right to do it. While other people do have the right to protest about it, they can't just say "you have no right to draw pictures like that because we take it as blasphemy." Why? Because the artist has the right to express her/his opinions.

Toleration of Christianity in Islamic nations is almost zero. They're constantly telling us that we should build more mosques while you can't even build a church in, say, Iran.

P.S. Muslims are, believe it or not, people too. Perhaps those who clearly dislike them as a group should meet one at some point. You'll be amazed.

I've met Muslims, mostly people of my age. They may be nice people, but I still detest their religion. I hate it, and you've got no excuse to eliminate my right to hate it. I suppose my claim "I hate pretty much anyone who is a Muslim" led you a little off-track. I don't hate the group because of the people, I hate the group because I hate their religion.

[Andrew]

I just don't see how they can ban the drawing of cartoons of a religion, because thier religion states so. Christianity doesn't like abortions, but you don't see it outlawed (they try though ;), but we overcame that), and you don't see sex before marriage outlawed eithor. Imposing religious beliefs upon others and turning them into law is not the right thing to do.

If free speech is banned, then no more jokes about christianity (priests molesting boys), no more political jokes, as someone could be offended (say it goes against a political party belief). No more blonde jokes as blondes are offended. Pretty much outlaw saying anything.

So you can pretty much rule out editorial cartoons being drawn anymore. Once you start, you cant stop where censorship ends.

Yes showing an image of mohammad is in bad taste as it doesn't respect anothers religion, just like making fun of any other religion, but it will be done over time, and if they cant handle a couple cartoons every year they obviously are intolerant of western values allowing free speech and discussion of the topic.

Muslims have blown this out of proportion, not the media, as it is the media who feeds off of reactions from someone. If the Muslims didn't go burning buildings and declare jihad or whatever, it would be last months news. But instead they are being attention whores and keep thinking of something else for the media to feed from.

It's about time another pretty white girl goes missing for the media to pay 100% attention to don't you think?

OMG Sampsa Lehti hentai-sama, you don't like another religion! That's hate speech! There should be a law against people like you stating their opinion in public. (sarcasm)

Now if you went and burned a mosque, then yes there is a problem with your hate/dislike. But you don't, which shows you tolerate the religion/people (even if you don't like it).

[veK]

I will now lean back and wait...  ::)

I can't change a thing anyway and if I could it would be devastating (not only for muslims but for the whole world).

we live by our rules (freedom of speech), they don't get along with it.

they start more and more protests, we will (have to) react if it doesn't stop. whatever reaction that might be.

stupid humans, no animal would ever be so stupid like humans are. we are earth's biggest virus.

and I'm pretty sure we will have to pay for this. maybe I won't experience this but following generations might. nature is already hitting us harder than ever before the last few years and it won't stop. maybe a new ice age is just what this planet needs to recover itself from what we did to it.

and then we are all dead. everybody goes straight to whatever god / heaven they believe in and all the people who don't believe in any kind of god just go to sleep forever. erybody is happy then  ;D

[Andrew]

Nigeria protesters kill 15 people and burned at least 11 churches over Muhammad cartoons

Protesters in the city of Maiduguri killed 15 people, mostly by beating them to death in the streets. Iwendi said they burned at least 11 Christian churches in the city.

The rioters also looted stores, hotels and vehicles, setting some ablaze.

This is irrefutable proof that Muslims are peaceful.

Quit showing the cartoons! It's western countries fault that people are dieing! Don't you know that cartoons = Muslims going crazy and are not held responsible for their actions? Stop! You're putting our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan in danger!

[veK]

go on go on islam, shovel your own grave.  :P

[Khan]

I could not, isreal is the sea of sanity over there.

Agreed its never caused a single problem, and always does its best to diffuse situations where conflict might evolve.

[Kiyouta]

You're missing the point about freedom of speech. If I was a nazi, I would have the right to say my beliefs, no matter how much it would disturb other people. If somebody wants to draw a picture of Mohammed, he has the right to do it. While other people do have the right to protest about it, they can't just say "you have no right to draw pictures like that because we take it as blasphemy." Why? Because the artist has the right to express her/his opinions.

Of course they have the right to draw a picture of Muhammad, and of course that must be respected. Islam however states that such an act is unacceptable. To Muslims it is, to others it isn't. Muslims have the right therefore to be offended, but of course not to the extent the extremists have demonstrated (although they will argue they have every right). They have shown a lack of tolerance of Western laws, mainly freedom of speech. But the cartoonists have not tolerated or even respected Muslims' beliefs. For anyone to republish the images is irresponsible - when it is clear what the result will be. They are putting out a fire with petrol. THAT is my point.

I don't hate the group because of the people, I hate the group because I hate their religion.

Tells the story right there... ::) Problem is, they probably hate you because you hate their religon. Hate's like that. What goes around comes around, which brings me to my next point...

and then we are all dead. everybody goes straight to whatever god / heaven they believe in and all the people who don't believe in any kind of god just go to sleep forever. erybody is happy then ;D

heh, that's option 3... ;)

As long as people don't loose perspective and become as idiotic as the extremists there won't be a serious problem.

go on go on islam, shovel your own grave. :P

Yup. That's the way things work.

[Khan]

You're missing the point about freedom of speech. If I was a nazi, I would have the right to say my beliefs, no matter how much it would disturb other people. If somebody wants to draw a picture of Mohammed, he has the right to do it. While other people do have the right to protest about it, they can't just say "you have no right to draw pictures like that because we take it as blasphemy." Why? Because the artist has the right to express her/his opinions.

Toleration of Christianity in Islamic nations is almost zero. They're constantly telling us that we should build more mosques while you can't even build a church in, say, Iran.

Because their religion tells them that it is the right one and it should be the dominant force in the world, even though, I believe, non-Muslims are supposed to be able to practise their religions as long as they recognise Sharia(?) law. Besides when has the west ever respected the customs of the east? most of the problems in foreign nations have been caused by the colonialism of old. After years of oppression and dictatorial rulings, the west, predominantly britain, pulled out and left them to it. Is it any wonder they've just picked up from where we left them?

[Andrew]

For anyone to republish the images is irresponsible - when it is clear what the result will be. They are putting out a fire with petrol. THAT is my point.

That is the kind of fear that they want to instill in western countries. "Do as we say, or get terrorists on your ass". We should not listen to what they want if they are going to threaten us with terrorism.

[Jack Leaf]

But the cartoonists have not tolerated or even respected Muslims' beliefs.

That's not the point. (S)He could as well draw cartoons about Christian priests summoning demons to rape children, and while some Christian people certainly won't appreciate that, (s)he has the right to do it!

Tells the story right there... ::) Problem is, they probably hate you because you hate their religon. Hate's like that. What goes around comes around, which brings me to my next point...

They can hate me if they want, just as long as they don't start killing people in the streets. You see, even though I dislike the religion I don't go as far as blowing up an entire apartment that serves as a mosque.

As long as people don't loose perspective and become as idiotic as the extremists there won't be a serious problem.

I suppose we're thinking about the same thing in a little different perspective.

After years of oppression and dictatorial rulings, the west, predominantly britain, pulled out and left them to it. Is it any wonder they've just picked up from where we left them?

I don't like colonisation either and the law in France which outlaws speaking against it is ludicrous, but it's the past. We can't do anything about it anymore - except, of course, help all those oppressed nations... like that would happen. Besides, many African countries have turned to worse, thanks to their civil wars, not French/British/Dutch/German colonisers.

Muslims are showing bad taste and don't make themselves seem any better by killing people for religion issues.

I could not, isreal is the sea of sanity over there.

Ohh, that's a good one. Unfortunately, I don't laugh very often and couldn't chuckle now.

[gunner154]

Islam isn't at fault. It's just that we have some crazy Muslims and extremists who think it's really cool to march in the streets and protest over anything and everything. Hell, I wouldn't give a damn if someone drew a funny picture of Jesus. Maybe I would laugh at the cartoonist. That's that. They are clearly overdoing it. We should tolerate Islam and not the Muslims.

Kiyouta, you cannot justify killing over a cartoon. If there are bigger things to protest about, how justified is it to resort to violence? Is there major discrimination against Muslims in other countries? How big is the problem? We cannot simply allow Muslims to go around killing and razing because it goes against one of their laws - if we allowed them to do that, doesn't that indicate favouritism? Britain doesn't even give Christians special rights, let alone Muslims being the minority?

And you cannot argue that we should grant the minority a right like this, because that would mean we have to give all Muslims all over the world these special rights to have their religion protected from criticism. Sure, it's really nice if we gave them these rights, but what about other religions? What about freedom of speech? Can't you be more tolerant when living in a Western country that supposedly supports freedom and democracy?

Hm. I feel better now.

[Kiyouta]

Kiyouta, you cannot justify killing over a cartoon. If there are bigger things to protest about, how justified is it to resort to violence? Is there major discrimination against Muslims in other countries? How big is the problem? We cannot simply allow Muslims to go around killing and razing because it goes against one of their laws - if we allowed them to do that, doesn't that indicate favouritism? Britain doesn't even give Christians special rights, let alone Muslims being the minority?

And you cannot argue that we should grant the minority a right like this, because that would mean we have to give all Muslims all over the world these special rights to have their religion protected from criticism. Sure, it's really nice if we gave them these rights, but what about other religions? What about freedom of speech? Can't you be more tolerant when living in a Western country that supposedly supports freedom and democracy?

Hm. I feel better now.

You wasted your breathe. I didn't justify it - such violence is unjustified. I never mentioned favouritism or singling Muslims out, giving them special rights. The response by a select few is rediculous and they need to know it that will not be tolerated.

[Jack Leaf]

In case you haven't already noticed, minorities are favoured in Europe because everyone is afraid to be classified as a rascist.

[gunner154]

In case you haven't already noticed, minorities are favoured in Europe because everyone is afraid to be classified as a rascist.

I am aware of that. That's because minorities are discriminated against to a certain degree. But where religious laws are concerned, ah..

[Andrew]

Danish paper denies publishing new apology for cartoons in Saudi papers

Looks like the Muslim media are spreading lies.

Time for another thought provoking cartoon.

http://www.hostimage.org/img/1636974809.jpg

Also a pic of a church they burnt, then threw rocks at

http://www.foxnews.com/images/193511/5_24_021906_cartoons1.jpg