Muhammad Cartoons Censored

[Acriku]

The thing is, it wasn't published in their country. It was published in another country and somebody brought it over, whether to incite violence or not I do not know. And Josh, everybody has different customs and traditions, and I would agree that we should take that into consideration not call others wrong if we simply do not share the same customs. However, the actions of the muslims in the countries that incite riots, call a bounty on the head of the publisher, etc, are not shielded and can be criticized. I don't care whose feelings are hurt, if people initiate violence and call for people's death for a reward, then they are in the wrong. People incite violence in my country all the time, and they are in the wrong. This reaches all cultures.

[Andrew]

I applaud the Muslims for protesting. It is their right. I can go protest if I don't think the grass is green enough if I want. But when they start chanting that they are going to kill people and burn down embassies, that's where it turns into a riot.

As you can tell the protests in western countries is much more non violent than in the radical countries.

Drawing cartoons of priests molesting kids = funny/ok

Drawing cartoons of Muhammad = wrong and should be banned.

Not much logic put into this.

Now people are making cartoons making fun of the cartoons. Still making fun of Muslims too, minus the drawings of Muhammad. But I think they prove a point.

Also http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/recent/CagleJihad.gif

[Kiyouta]

Drawing cartoons of priests molesting kids = funny/ok

Drawing cartoons of Muhammad = wrong and should be banned.

Not much logic put into this.

Since when was religon ever about logic? You can't attack a religous retaliation by applying logic and saying it doesn't add up. Nothing religous is logical, that's the whole point of religon - to example that which cannot be explained.

[nampigai]

I think it shows how insensitive westerners can be to other cultures.

Personally it seems to me that fundimentalist muslims and fundimentalist christians should share more in common. At least fundimentalist muslims are raising a voice, a bit too extreme, but someone needs to shut the arrogance of the west up.

arrogance? wtf is this about! the west doesn't treat women like shit - you know in Saudi Arabia women can't drive cars, they can't get a passport without the husband permision, they can't vote! western arogance?

One of the Imams that have travelled the middle east with the drawings have said, that he think it's ok to beat women with no burka on, after all it's their own fault. Where is the peace, love and tolerance in that?

Religion is the root of all evil! There is no fucking god! start taking control over your own lives and stop blaming your actions on some imaginary friend the heaven - HE DOESN'T EXCIST!

This is my freedom of speech! if it offends you, too bad I don't give a damn! But I'll not allow the islamic fundamentalist to censor my papers! if they are willing to die for a man who died ages ago, well guess what I am ready to die for my freedom!

TMA you are the and the islamic men are the arrogant people in this matter!

[Andrew]

Since when was religon ever about logic? You can't attack a religous retaliation by applying logic and saying it doesn't add up. Nothing religous is logical, that's the whole point of religon - to example that which cannot be explained.

Guess I didn't mean about logic, mostly that it's normal to print cartoons making fun of christianity, but as soon as you offend Islam it's going to far and taboo.

The next time I see a new cartoon making fun of Christianity I am going on a crusade and try to get the person charged with a hate crime. Oh wait Kanye West was on the cover of a magazine posing as Jesus on the cross. Guess I should go burn some flags and send death threats to him.

Canada Hate Crime:

Section 319(2) makes it a crime to communicate, except in private conversation, statements that wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group.

So political cartoons should be banned as well if it makes fun of a political group. I could be deeply offended by one. I mean if someone makes a cartoon making fun of the liberals stealing money, that offends me as a Liberal as it's not true. Only a couple liberals stole money. Kinda like how a couple muslims are terrorists, but not all muslims.

PS: anyone know any public companies on the exchanges that deal with manufacturing flags? I want to look into investing in them for an investment project.

Newsflash!

The editor of the newspaper of Denmark is now on indefinite leave.

[exatreide]

Well this is sorta related, was just reading this in my Waffen SS book.

The 24rd Waffen-Gebrigs Division SS KAMA(Kroatische Nr 2)

Was a all muslim unit created primarily to defeat partisans, although the unit was disbanded due to the Red Army's advance on Yugoslavia, Himmler stated this to Gobbles

"I Have nothing against Islam because it educates the men in this division for me and promises them heaven if they fight and are killed in action;a very practical and attractive religion for soldiers!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Handschar-13th-SS-Division-Emblem.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hanjar_div_Himmler_Sauberzw.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Han-arm.jpg

I Just think its ironic that the Nazi's recognized this in Islam and moved to exploit it.

[veK]

<irony>

hey, I am non-religious but my belief is, that everybody on this planet should have the same rights.

therefore I might be burning flags and attacking embassies soon, because I feel deeply humiliated by the way some islamic countries do treat their women, not allowing them anything and forcing them to dress up like a ninja from a b-movie.

</irony>

[veK]

after reviewing my post... I think you can delete the "irony html code" and take it serious - just delete me being violent too.

[Dragoon Knight]

As for me, huh, if you want to know what I think, [sniff] I'll show you something.  Come with me.  This way.  Come on.  Don't be shy.  Mind the stairs, all right?  I think this will help explain.  Come along.  Come along.  Over here.  Come on.  Come on.

[screeeech]

[beeeeeep]

This way.

[beeeep]

[honk]

[screeech]

Come on.  This way.  Stay by me, uh?

OK, enough with the Monty Python (a cookie to whoever spotted that, by the way :P).  My opinion is as follows.

The artist is a person of subnormal intelligence for making those cartoons.  He knew fine and well it would piss off a lot of people, and he should be castrated to prevent him procreating and spreading this idiocy down through future generations.  That's the end of 'things that are our fault', and by 'our', I refer to the Western World as a whole.

Now, the Muslims that took offence: please protest, it's your right.  Denounce the cartoonist, the paper that originally printed it, and every paper that prints it if you like.  Denouncing entire countries might be taking it a bit far, but so be it.  However, DON'T be asshats and start threatening to kill people and/or blow shit up because someone drew a bloody cartoon.  It's illegal, it's taboo, it's forbidden.  Yeah, guess what?  So's blowing up embassies and threatening to kill anyone who supports the right to post them.

Sure it was a stupid idea to create them, but now that they're made, it's the right of the people to distribute them.  Why anyone would want to is beyond me, but we have the right.  Just like you have the right to bathe your own testes in a mixture of bleach and 70% proof alcohol; you can do it if you want, but you'd be damn stupid to do so, because it's going to piss these people off.

The way I see things, the whole argument can be simplified to this:

CARTOONIST: lol, cartoon

MUSLIM EXTREMISTS: omfg stfu

NEWSPAPERS WORLDWIDE: rofl, printed

MUSLIM EXTREMISTS: JIHAD!

EMBASSIES: *splode*

It's like the cartoon that Andrew posted says; the whole thing screams hypocrisy.

MUSLIM EXTREMISTS: "How dare you portray our religious figure in that way!  Blasphemer!  Not only that, but you indicate that we are an unruly mob that go around bombing, burning and killing things and people!"

REST OF WORLD: "Learn to take a smegging joke, noobs."

MUSLIM EXTREMISTS: "We feel that the only adequate response to this slander and libel is to bomb, burn and kill things."

REST OF WORLD: "wtf?"

Those same hypocritical, violent assholes have been burning US and UK flags, depicting leaders of other religions in similar manners and otherwise doing exactly the same thing for ages now.  What happens as soon as they get a taste of their own medicine?

AAAAAAAARGH MOTHERLAND!!!

Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Stupid cartoonist, even more stupid Muslim Extremists.  Shut the hell up.

[Andrew]

The artist is a person of subnormal intelligence for making those cartoons.  He knew fine and well it would piss off a lot of people, and he should be castrated to prevent him procreating and spreading this idiocy down through future generations.  That's the end of 'things that are our fault', and by 'our', I refer to the Western World as a whole.

AAAAAAAARGH MOTHERLAND!!!

You can easily blame the muslim cleric who brought the cartoon to the middle east to show them it. He should be blamed for distributing it, knowing it would cause an uproar.

Argh motherland! Nice. I like that cartoon. It should be banned as well. ::)

[veK]

by the way: I love provoking stuff, no matter what it is. this time it's cartoons.

do you know www.tshirthell.com ? I love their stuff, somethings are really wicked but some are so cool anyway. and of course they always annoy somebody. I like black humour and I like provoking humour even more (if it's good, and 2 of the cartoons were definitely very good). but here's the deal: I also accept it if somebody is making fun of me, of our nation  or whatever else that directly or indirectly might hit me. I often like to laugh at it myself except it's a very silly joke.

you should get a shirt like this (see attachment) and wear it at the airport (not in the usa though) or at the club:

[attachment deleted by Gobalopper]

[veK]

hey Kiyouta, I agree 100% about the western countries and about the oil-rip-off that's going on.

I do not, in no way, sympathise with the political, economical and ecological behaviour of western countries.

but anyway, I don't accept violent protests as well and I also don't think that islamic countries are the real deal. actually the whole world is very f***ed up but a discussion about that would take some time.

still I think they are overreacting, no matter what else is going on between cultures/countries.

[Kiyouta]

What is wrong with you people?

I thought you would have had more sense than this. Can't you see that this is more than one stupid person protesting... that maybe this has pissed off an entire group of people?? You can't understand why?! Then you are too damn ignorant. Open your eyes. Half the world thinks this cartoon is offensive. Why can't people just be understanding and see beyond their own racial and cultural barriers. This isn't about religon, it never has been. It's about the Americans and Europeans who are fucking up the world for their own benefit. Steal from the god damn Muslims because clearly they don't understand what good oil or anything else they stand upon will do for them. TAKE IT! WHO CARES! Europe will just ignore it and continue to argue about "agricultural subsidies" whilst the entire world goes to war around them.

Can someone please move this god damn thread to PRP. I told you you'll attract idiots to an otherwise complicated issue. People think they are too right in taking the middle ground... "Stupid Cartoonists, oh and Muslim extremists are stupid too." Maybe not everyone is stupid and perhaps it is not the fault of people but the idiotic people with power in this world. Ya know, i'd love to believe in religon, I really would - because I'd love for a God to actually run the world we live in instead of the stupid inbred idiots in America and Europe who can't see a damn metre ahead of them. If a damn cartoonist can piss off an entire group of people and not be fired then surely someone who happens to have sworn alot and used capital letters deserves to have his post remain, at least for the time being. Please, for the damn sake of all that is actually important in this world keep this post and maybe people will read it.

(Sorry Re-veK, was editing the post)

[veK]

lol... just browsed tshirthell.com

they are already up to date with a brand new "cartoon shirt":

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=586

(and they got 2 more)

this is what's going to happen anyway now: more and more cartoons, jokes and stuff will spread BECAUSE of the violent protest and because the muslims themselves brought the whole topic to everyone's attention now. you will see, this was just the beginning. that's human nature, sad but true...

[Kiyouta]

but anyway, I don't accept violent protests as well and I also don't think that islamic countries are the real deal. actually the whole world is very f***ed up but a discussion about that would take some time.

Oh yes I'm sure Eastern hemisphere countries are just as bad. It is wrong to link Church with State and perhaps that is part of the issue. The problem is, Islam is a complete 'solution' to society - not just a religon. Yes, you're right, such an argument would take a very long time heh, and I need to sleep! :)

[exatreide]

It's just stupid.. The cartoon points to Islam as a violent religion, so what do muslims do? Turn violent? Damn right. Damn good way to prove the cartoonists point to.

[nampigai]

Oh yes I'm sure Eastern hemisphere countries are just as bad. It is wrong to link Church with State and perhaps that is part of the issue. The problem is, Islam is a complete 'solution' to society - not just a religon. Yes, you're right, such an argument would take a very long time heh, and I need to sleep! :)

it's possible that Islam is a complete solution - for power hungry men!

the muslem who feld offended by the cartoons (there were more than one cartoonist...there were 12) they should start looking inwards and try rooting out the bad seeds. They should see that the western associates Islam with violence and terror. This is not our fault this is the fault of the people killing in the name of the peaceloving religion Islam.

Muslem if you wan't to unite do it to show that you aren't all terrorists - cause right now you are proving the drawings right!

on a side note - funny that the cartoons were shown in an egyptian newspaper last year - with no reaction what so ever!

[stefanhendriks]

What is wrong with you people?

I thought you would have had more sense than this. Can't you see that this is more than one stupid person protesting... that maybe this has pissed off an entire group of people?? You can't understand why?! Then you are too damn ignorant. Open your eyes. Half the world thinks this cartoon is offensive.  Why can't people just be understanding and see beyond their own racial and cultural barriers. This isn't about religon, it never has been. It's about the Americans and Europeans who are fucking up the world for their own benefit. Steal from the god damn Muslims because clearly they don't understand what good oil or anything else they stand upon will do for them. TAKE IT! WHO CARES! Europe will just ignore it and continue to argue about "agricultural subsidies" whilst the entire world goes to war around them.

Can someone please move this god damn thread to PRP. I told you you'll attract idiots to an otherwise complicated issue. People think they are too right in taking the middle ground... "Stupid Cartoonists, oh and Muslim extremists are stupid too." Maybe not everyone is stupid and perhaps it is not the fault of people but the idiotic people with power in this world. Ya know, i'd love to believe in religon, I really would - because I'd love for a God to actually run the world we live in instead of the stupid inbred idiots in America and Europe who can't see a damn metre ahead of them. If a damn cartoonist can piss off an entire group of people and not be fired then surely someone who happens to have sworn alot and used capital letters deserves to have his post remain, at least for the time being. Please, for the damn sake of all that is actually important in this world keep this post and maybe people will read it.

(Sorry Re-veK, was editing the post)

So far i haven't read anything that made sense or contributed to this thread. Thank you for being such a 'idiot' who seem to wander around here like you just quoted so beautifully.

One can think of many, many reasons for all kind of problems. Lets keep it simple and stay with the cartoons before someone might start talking about peak oil... Learn: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

[Kiyouta]

Stefan, you insult my post yet agree with it? Oil was an example, it was another point as opposed to the same old "stupid everyone" which 3/4 of this thread is made up of.

[Swordmaster_Duncan]

What I don't understand is how people can say that it is their right to say whatever they want, and then wash their hands with the matter. I believe that every thing you do has it's repocussions (whether they are good/bad or small/large), and by believing that, I am both directly and indirectly resposible for everything I do/say etc.

It's a bother I know, but keeping my mouth shut helps. I can say whatever I want of course. That is my choice though.

The fact that this has bridged a cultural difference is not helping either. It's easy to say that the riots and such going on (I don't trust the media - I think there might have been some riots, not the amount or magnitude that I've been told though) are out of line.

Instead try and see why they are/there was rioting. I can imagine that the cartoon can deeply offend people. I can imagine that with the right circumstances, that offence can lead to anger, and protest. Now, this is where I assume things - I assume that the difference in their way of life and the culmination of the above could lead to some of these protests becoming violent. I have no idea whether this is true or not - I have not lived that life.

Please don't take this as an attack against the Muslim way of life. I assume the above expecting to be wrong, as I said I know nothing about Muslim culture, and like a lot of things, I would like to learn more.

The bottom line is that there is a cultral difference. I'm not an advocate for either 'western' or  Muslim culture - I know not nearly enough about Muslim culture, or western culture either for that matter (how can someone say that they do?). What is fed to me through the media I don't trust at all.

[stefanhendriks]

Stefan, you insult my post yet agree with it? Oil was an example, it was another point as opposed to the same old "stupid everyone" which 3/4 of this thread is made up of.

Yes, but since thats life and since that happens all the time, the contrubution of your post in a whole is futile, irrelevant, etc. There are hundreds of topics where the same old 'stupid everyone' would react on, so what is your point by saying this is yet another one? We know, and we like to discuss about it.

If you do not want to discuss, please leave this topic be and ponder about the many other questions/discussions/topics at this forum.

Thank you.

[Kiyouta]

I'm getting asked to leave the thread because I argued against the common argument here? And I don't think my posts were "futile or irrelevant" as posts after them have often agreed in part with them.

[erjin999]

Dont worry Kiyouta, I dont think its irrelevant either.

If I was up to some old guy in my street, and insult him, swear at him, whatever, everyday, soon I will be locked up (assuming I get some ASBOs [Anti-social behaviour orders] on me and stuff). It will happen.

Where is my freedom of speech ? Freedom of speech is fine so long as it doesnt cause distress to others. How can I go around causing this old guy abuse knowingly ? I couldnt, but some people can and do. Thats sick.

Printing these pictures knowing full well what the reaction would be, was what happened. As for the backward countries, shit, people are dragging that into it, well I know that if it wasnt for our interferring they wouldnt be backward. From colonising before, taking as slaves, raping countries, to now using International Monetary Fund and World Trade Organisation keeps them screwed up.

Take India as an example, one of the more extream one and one of the ones I know more about (I studied them in humanities, I think it was). Look at what we did to them while colonised. Then look at how we left them, constantly fighting each other (India Pakistan).

Now look at American presence in Middle east in particular. American support for governments that people do not support.

Thats why they are backward.

Why do we deliberately provoke them ?

[gryphon]

find the reason why people read those cartoons and laught at them. . them you will know if the cartoons are insulting or not.. . and don't just blame the writer. Blame the people who ask for those cartoons and mail them to all co-workers each morning..

[veK]

I don't ask for the cartoons but still I enjoy them if they are available.

but only 2 of them were good in my opinion. but like I already said, I like that kind of humour and most of the time it offends somebody somewhere somehow.

how about this: http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=379

or that: http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=429

or really hard stuff like this: http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=03

this last one makes fun of tragic events where children died. still it gives me something to smile about (and also very much to think about) because of the way it is designed and how good it expresses how absurd everything is in our modern society. so it's not meant to say "haha you son and daughter died at ...." but "haha you stupid morons can't raise your kids and also this is what you get for having so much weapons all around your country, blame yourself and not some videogames and manson music".

it's the same with the muhammed cartoons for me. the one I liked most is with the suicidal bombers at heaven and the "stop stop we ran out of virgins" because it expresses how stupid this whole stuff is about telling those people (often teenagers) about wonderful paradise if they blow up that bus in tel aviv. it's just so ridiculous. let them make fun of "us" - whatever country, religion or society is meant by that. as long as it has some style and is just 10-20% justified, it's alright for me.