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Have you ever seen this horror ?


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Not a lot of things disturb me, but this makes me feel physically ill.  I can't sleep after watching that video, seeing those poor animals tortured.  They were still alive, dammit.

Reminds me of a video I saw once of a caged cat being set on fire for kicks... this kind of thing is sick, wrong and it makes me feel helpless.  Before anyone watches this, know that it depicts the most horrific animal cruelty that I have ever witnessed.  How those men could do that, I cannot even begin to imagine.  If there is a hell, I hope they burn and rot there eternally.  As for those animals... I can't even say "I hope their suffering was short", because it wasn't.

We're such assholes. :'(

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Whether hoax or not, I suspect that if it's realistic enough to fool people then I probably wouldn't like it. So I ain't watching it. I am, however, spending several hours thinking up brand new ways to hurt people. Make of that what you will.

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In case you are wondering what it is about... suffice to say it's about fur coats. Or rather, where the fur comes from.

And as for the people doing it, they should be tortured before being shot. I have zero tolerance for cruelty - those who torture should be tortured in turn.

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As cruel as the images might be. Those people only ack one one premisses other then we.

"Humans and animals are not the same, as humans are aware of their surroundings and inputs, animals are not."

A lot of people think humans are not animals and vise versa. As such humans can experience pain. Animals can not and just have refleces we see.

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I saw it, certainly not a pretty sight. I don't really recoil from it though, I know that sort of stuff has been going on. Though animal cruelty should be punished, I think that cruelty against humans is far more serious. I'd put my time and money into something that counters say, child prostitution in third world countries before some emotional appeal against people who club animals to death.

As such humans can experience pain. Animals can not and just have refleces we see.

I disagree. There woudln't even be reflexes if it weren't for pain stimuli. Plus, if you repeatedly punish a dog for unwanted behaviour, he'll eventually learn from it and refrain from doing it. It's a simple form of conditioning, true, but it does imply a basic level of thought.

By the way...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005450117,00.html (warning, don't click if the video already gave you a bad stomach, you'll find this heinous.)

What do you say, is this a hoax?

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Whether hoax or not, I suspect that if it's realistic enough to fool people then I probably wouldn't like it. So I ain't watching it. I am, however, spending several hours thinking up brand new ways to hurt people. Make of that what you will.

  Ditto.  The clips I saw on Dateline where the redneck hunters tied up pigs and what-have-you and shot it full of arrows was tasteless enough for me. 

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Though animal cruelty should be punished, I think that cruelty against humans is far more serious. I'd put my time and money into something that counters say, child prostitution in third world countries before some emotional appeal against people who club animals to death.

Nah. Animals are far more important.

Not that I'm some crazy protester who foams at the mouth while planning to murder guinea pig farmers. I just figure that there are far easier ways to perform medical experiments that don't involve experimentation on animals (to save myself answering this later, I'd prefer to experiment on humans. You wouldn't even need to force them, they'd volunteer). Fur is cheaper when synthetic anyway, even if it is lacking in quality.

As for just cruelty with no purpose or point... there are better targets. Much better.

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Dante (wft?)

I have lost a measure of respect for your opinions. Human life will always be more valuable than animal life just because if the animals need protection then it will be the humans to do it. I do not see the animals uniting together to start their own wildlife protection committee.

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I saw it, certainly not a pretty sight. I don't really recoil from it though, I know that sort of stuff has been going on. Though animal cruelty should be punished, I think that cruelty against humans is far more serious. I'd put my time and money into something that counters say, child prostitution in third world countries before some emotional appeal against people who club animals to death.

Sure, the children are the only ones beign able to earn money for the rest of the family. We think child prostitution and child labor is bad. They know it as the only way to servive as a family.

I disagree. There woudln't even be reflexes if it weren't for pain stimuli. Plus, if you repeatedly punish a dog for unwanted behaviour, he'll eventually learn from it and refrain from doing it. It's a simple form of conditioning, true, but it does imply a basic level of thought.

I know and fully agree that animals do indead feel pain, although talk to my antropology professor from Uni and you get a whole ot a theories of people who don't have that same opinnion.

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Nah. Animals are far more important.

According to your views Dante, nothing should be important. But there you are again, like with lifeless rocks, placing animals above humans. Yeah, I 'm sure you can find a hellish lot of reasons why not to like humans; but there have been the few, the very few, the elite, men much more capable than you that have achieved more than you could ever hope. Things animal could never do. I guess that's why you like them more.

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eh, it happens in a communist regime...

Yeah, right. Does anyone still seriously believe that? Even the Soviet Union was closer to communism than China (and that's saying something!).

...bitching about it in america and europe won't solve anything.

Actually, it will, because the demand for all that fur comes from America and Europe. If you get rid of the demand for fur, this kind of cruelty will stop.

Nah. Animals are far more important.

Why? Animals are important, true, but a human being will always be far more important than an animal.

I saw it, certainly not a pretty sight. I don't really recoil from it though, I know that sort of stuff has been going on. Though animal cruelty should be punished, I think that cruelty against humans is far more serious. I'd put my time and money into something that counters say, child prostitution in third world countries before some emotional appeal against people who club animals to death.

Of course; I completely agree. Animal cruelty is evil, but there are far worse things out there that we should be worrying about. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't condemn animal cruelty and do something about it if we can.

sure, the children are the only ones beign able to earn money for the rest of the family. We think child prostitution and child labor is bad. They know it as the only way to servive as a family.

Yes, those children are forced into prostitution or hard labour just to survive. But the question you should be asking yourself is, what is causing them to be so poor that they have to resort to such desperate measures? Closing down sweatshops and cracking down on child prostitution networks is good, but it only attacks the symptoms, not the underlying cause of the problem. The solution to child labour and prostitution is to eliminate the poverty that fuels them in the first place.

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Dante (wft?)

I have lost a measure of respect for your opinions. Human life will always be more valuable than animal life just because if the animals need protection then it will be the humans to do it. I do not see the animals uniting together to start their own wildlife protection committee.

So you're saying that humans should be preserved in order to preserve animals? I guess I can see the reasoning behind that.

Still, disagreeing with someone is not always a reason for their opinions to be unworthy of respect...

According to your views Dante, nothing should be important. But there you are again, like with lifeless rocks, placing animals above humans. Yeah, I 'm sure you can find a hellish lot of reasons why not to like humans; but there have been the few, the very few, the elite, men much more capable than you that have achieved more than you could ever hope. Things animal could never do. I guess that's why you like them more.
Such as the invention of the atomic bomb, perhaps? Being the only species known to kill for pleasure? Our greatest technologies side effects from war; and the ability to hate members of our own species for no better reason than colour, gender, or beliefs? Yeah. Great record there.

Nothing is important. But some things seem more important than others. The trick is to get people to believe you, not to get people to believe in a fictional right.

To sum up, animal rights > human rights. It's not like they're likely to cause our extinction.

Why? Animals are important, true, but a human being will always be far more important than an animal.

There are more of us. We are more harmful to just about everyhing. Those two reasons alone, even without my personal observations on humanity, are enough.

Perhaps ironically, I've always seen fur as the lesser evil. I mean, experimentation can't be a bag of laughs, can it? So here's what I think:

Farming animals for furs is actually ok in my book, and before I get hypocricy screamed at me, let me explain. Synthetics never quite measure up, and though the demand may go down, it will never go away. So the practice might as well be subject to strict regulations all over the world, but allowed to continue in much the same way as farming chickens or cows. So long as the animal doesn't suffer at all in life or in death, then there shouldn't really be an objection. Unless you don't like eating meat because it's 'murder,' in which case you're malnourished as well as over-sensitive.

Experimentation, on the other hand... Well, this one is more difficult. It could be argued that disease prevention is far more important than fashion, but in truth I'm beginning to think that maybe a little pandemic is what the world needs. That aside, experimentation on animals is one of the most emotive subjects around. And like I said, why not just experiment on humans? All the money channeled into protecting scientists and breeding mice or rabbits could be put into paying volunteers to have their eyes sprayed with shampoo. And since only the really poor would even consider it, it would be helping out some of society's lower strata without any augmentation of the welfare budget. And all the crazy people who dig up graves and throw petrol bombs can go home happy and not bother anyone. See? I have ideas.

And finally. Cruelty just for cruelty, torture for torture's sake. ... As I said, there are better targets than those who cannot fight back.

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bitching about it in america and europe won't solve anything.

Why do you think that they do it for... ? Why are they doing it ? Think about it, because we (atleast some of us) buy it!

So IMO it is our reponsebility to stop it.

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Yes, those children are forced into prostitution or hard labour just to survive. But the question you should be asking yourself is, what is causing them to be so poor that they have to resort to such desperate measures? Closing down sweatshops and cracking down on child prostitution networks is good, but it only attacks the symptoms, not the underlying cause of the problem. The solution to child labour and prostitution is to eliminate the poverty that fuels them in the first place.

They are not forced into prostitution because they are poor. The are forced to work because their parent can't work anymore. relying on the children. The children happely take any kind of work they can. If that's working in a factory, working with chemicals all day to make cheap furniture for the Western World. . or being a child prostitute. The make mayby a few buck a month. Which seems little, but is enough to support the whole family that month.

I won't go into the subject of the whole country being poor and all that. . that's just a logistics problem rather then the country being poor.

But sorry, think the above it off topic and I'll stop. . :-X

Dante. . .doing experiments on huments instead off animalls. . .what was it again you mentioned. .

Those two reasons alone, even without my personal observations on humanity, are enough.

well, you sure are right.. . you do lack personal observation. Not only does the US use homeless people for medical experimenting ( the ones I know of are drunk / homeless people getting $70 a day and being tested on. ) Even in Europe healthy people get about 1000 to 5000 Euro's if they voluntairly help with testing stuff out from time to time.

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