Questions for the "Elites"

[Voodoo Daddy]

I was reading the "seems like we know everything" and the "help using Kobras and mortar inf. effectivley" posts and I have a question or two.

I play Atreides. Most of the games play online, are usually team games. So this applies to that sort of scenario. Say a 3 vs. 3 game.

(1) Here is something that I am having a LOT of trouble with. For lack of a better term I will call it "situational awareness". I have gotten to the point where I am FAIRLY good at getting my economy up and running and producing a bunch of cheap units without going broke. But how do you guys decide what direction to take your unit production so early in the game and so fast? I mean how do you decide what is your most immediate threat? Like in one game I saw enemy ordos near me, so I start cranking out lots of cheap units, then another member of the opposing team droned me and killed my carryalls. Death soon followed, LOL.  Next game vs same team I tried early air defence, (probably a poor one, making drones) and got ordos rushed before I had ground defense. Immediate death.

(2) Do you guys actually do all this micro-managing that you are talking about when the heat is on? You know, like getting attacked with 30 buzzies? Instead of boxing all the units that are getting rushed and Cntrl+shift attack? Thanks, Vodoo Daddy

[GUNWOUNDS]

there is a time to use CTRL + Shift... and there is a time to Bunch your units together and press "S".

[Voodoo Daddy]

Yes, I fairly good grip on unit control tactics, Guns. What I was referring to was like Harkdawg's pictures in the Kobra and inf. post, where you actually do things like flank and distract your enemy. Or does that kind of strategy only get seen later in the game when your bases and spice are secure?

And by the way, thanks for the training help last nite.

[Marcel71]

Well, the tactivs he is using there is a bit far fetched. As those situations will not be like that in game..

But off-course there are tactics. Those things are difficult to learn. Depends of part of map, opponent, harvs, partner, atreides, hark, ordos etc.. etc...

For example. If you fight against ordos, and he puts up several Korba"s with dusties and sards...

You do not attack that !!! You make a cirkeling move. So he has to move his dusties and sards first. Then u first do battle against them. Later you go to the deployed Kobra"s (for example). But as i said, it really depends on what the oppponent is doing.....

[slaphapy]

Gun and skorp are right, you just kind of know when to use your units in what way after a time.  If you play one house a lot thats good, you soon learn all the in's and out's of each unit, where to use them for what situations, and how.  as far as changing what you are building, sometimes all you can do is change what you are building to suit what they have coming when you see it.  if you see an atr player build a hangar, you better bet there will be drones/ mino drops coming.  Sometimes you can judge what kind of units to build depending on who you are playing against.  You eventually learn what some players do, and what they dont, and you remember to counter it.  I would say the best things to help your awareness in the game are 1) scouting! if you cant see your enemy, you cant know what to expect. 2) dont hover on your base the entire time, watch your enemies, see what they are doing. see a fremen tent= watch for worms/ dont leave your infantry alone, see a hangar= build air defense. 3) try an outpost (mind you, this doesnt mean build one early on in the game, make sure you can at least afford the time and money first)

[Voodoo Daddy]

Well, what about question #1?

EDIT- paranoid dropped his response in first while i was posting this one.

[desertway]

Well where to attack is base on the team and your location. Unless I have a partner who needs immediate assistance...I will generally attack the closets enemy. Sometimes just seeing where you and 1 of your partners are, you may KNOW that you have 1 of your opponents between you. If that is the case we will usually do an ally chat and set up a rush on that person. At that point you still need to pay attention to your base also, because their partner(s) will more than likely attack your base while you're out attacking. Goes back to what was said before about knowing who ur allies and opponents are. For example I rarely go Factory first. But when I play against Hermetic7 I always go factory first. I do this because he ALWAYS tries to factory rush. One of the only problems I see with you vodoo is that you play with your son and neighbor most of the time. This is limiting your exposure to different tactics and bo's. Try mixing up who u play with and you will notice yourself getting alot better than u see now.

[slaphapy]

as in most immediate threat? well, anything that can kill your spice is definately a threat.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Yes, I fairly good grip on unit control tactics, Guns. What I was referring to was like Harkdawg's pictures in the Kobra and inf. post, where you actually do things like flank and distract your enemy. Or does that kind of strategy only get seen later in the game when your bases and spice are secure?

And by the way, thanks for the training help last nite.

Well usually most battles are head-on affairs.

Usually if there is any flanking it will be done in a 2 vs 1 situation.  Meaning you do a head-on assault of your enemy while your friend flanks him.  This works best when the enemies' ally is not paying attention  or is turtled up defensively or is just not very perceptive to begin with.

However if you are playing against two alert and perceptive players it is usually hard to do flanking manuevers.

[desertway]

I mean how do you decide what is your most immediate threat?

It isn't always about the most immediate threat either(although immediate threats need to be dealt with). Sometimes you look at who's around you and u may pick out the weakest one. Doing this in a team game will maybe cause one or both of their stronger partners to split their forces to come help. That leaves them more vulnerable to attack from your partners. Than theres other games where I may just sit and wait until 1 of my partners can come help give me an advantage over the guy next to me. It all depends on where you are located, what your opponents are doing, and what your team is trying to do. And even the best laid plans can fall apart. Having a good plan doesn't necessarily mean a victory.

[Marcel71]

Than theres other games where I may just sit and wait until 1 of my partners can come help give me an advantage over the guy next to me.

And then there are 2vs2 games where desert just builds, builds and builds, and he let his partner kill the 2 opponents.

But not to be sad, when they are almost done, des comes with his 100 buzz and deathhand missle for the finish touch  ;D

Althoug the game ended 0.001 second before the missle hit the ground  ;D

[desertway]

I was taking a page out of doom's book for that game. He was my partner one game and i was in the middle of both our opponents. He sat there the whole game and had me kill them both off. I will say though...you handled yourslef quit well. It gave me plenty of time to go get something to eat. Oh and you forgot the sards I braught in also.

[DelugeD]

Only thing i would suggest is dont watch your base, I mean that as in set it up to protect but 90% of the time watch what your teamate and opponent are doing (mostly opponent).

[KALONY]

a small tip. to play without sound is horrible, but it trains u. i play often without, and so i have to move so much more around the map, to dont get badly surprised...hehe...the advantage is, that u watch the map much better than, even if u have sound on.

KALONY

[Voodoo Daddy]

I've been away since last weekend, so I just read all the new posts. Thanks for the tips, I will try to apply them all.

[Harkdawg]

So ure at the point where u got bunch o' small stuff and wanna decide wut to do next...

at start i hope u scouted the whole map, or atleast full locations of the enemies so u can see at anytime wut their up to, and thats basically it ... u just react to what their doing but while ure at it u have a bigger picture in the back of ure head...Like u have those small units (bikes n lf i presume) and u can keep ure foes off, but think wut u eventually would like to do (i would go usually for minos, sards, drones) and start slowly building it. Ure fighting him but when u got time and money start working to ure goal. In my case id make a sard barracks first when i have money and time since sards are *cant go wrong units* theyll come handy in any situation then when ive made sards id make 2 more sard barracks to up the production, after that maybe hanger and get few drones flyin, then 2 more facs and start minos.

BUT at any point, if u see something fishy going on u got to pause ure Goal and react, often i see people goin for worm riders, now when i see crapload of thumpers in the sand ill pause wutever i was trying to get and build 3 Regular barracks and start pumpin snipers, when the riders are under control u continue ure goal.

And thats wut u do whole game, work ure goal into reality and win it.

Try to get a radar up when u can, an overlooked building, but can help u spot fishy things :)

PS! Btw, i dunno about u guys, but in the games ive played, i always tryed to flank, spread out units to get focus fire,dropping a mino on an advantageous grounds, drive a bike through enemie front, used lots of little manuvers and tricks to get battles won. Thats the only reason why ive liked real time stratedgys, cos its fun to do those lil nifty things, especially in a game its made as good as Emp. U dont need to have superior numbers or firepower, although that is good.

Anyway, i was in the army until the end of August and didnt get much online and on this board. U asked it months ago, hope uve gotten loads better

[erjin999]

Maybe not flanking maneuvours as such, but at least sorting out your units so that your snipers and other inf dont end up facing th bulk of the buzzes and ink or whatever. Man I have seen some poeoples armies wiped out becuase they put the inf against the buzzes and thier own buzzes against sards and buzzes.

[Voodoo Daddy]

Hey, I just noticed the replys, Harkdawg & Nunu, thanks. Well, since I posted that I have gotten a little better, I think. The hardest thing for me still is keeping the "Big Picture" in mind and keeping an eye on my teammate as well as my stuff. Like the other nite I was playing a team game and Cbrick was my teammate, I was the only Atr. player in the game, so at the beginning I thought "What can I do to most help out?" So after I got my base set up and producing, I started making drones.  Well, I go and attack my son, who was my nearest enemy, and I was droning the shit out of him, lol. Killed all his carryalls and a few harvs in the process. But I was so engrossed in what i was doing that when I looked up I saw across the top of the screen-

Help-

Hey Voodoo are you on my team or what?

LOl. I thought ohh shit. so I grabbed all the bikes I had, and helped. But I almost missed that. We won by the way! Although it was about 85% bricks doing. But for me that game was a lot of fun.

Well, I'm heading out of town for a few days, but maybe when I get back I'll see u guys online.

[os999]

Hey let me tell you something good. Look, for an early ground defence create 10 snipers and 10 kindjal infantry. Line the snipers in front of the kindjal infantry( yo, both must be in rows, like line after line) that is the best early ground combination for atiedes. The sniper will fire at oncoming infantry and kindjal at enemy tanks, but hey don't forget air attacks. Now thats left to you.

[alchemi2]

Well i would say with my limited (cough) experience, you have a similar problem to me voodoo, on-line play is totally different to both comp single player games and LAN games, i can take out the computer easily even playing with max on attack. in LAN games i can do my opponents most of the time. BUT in on-line games i get my butt kicked.

It is always about awareness and know your ally and opponent the on-line community is so small these days that these guys know not only every tactic/BO but they can use one an others streghts and weaknesses to their advantage almost psychically. And know how to explote your inexperience.

The way to learn is what your already doing, play two vs twos and get some training and learn from the defeats but above all else do what you do and have FUN after all that's what it's about.

[youkol0rd]

Hi voodooo , i will try say anything about ur topic.

First , Kalony has all reason about NOT using sound to play cuz , u get alert 2 x more in game than using sound.

When u use sound , u wait alert sound give u a sound of alert but when u put off it , u will get smater to see it ,

a way of know if u are been attacking , is using space bar.

Ur line of strategy start since u are in lobby and know what house ur oponnent gonna use.

If someone use harkonnen , i m going use ATR.

If he use atr , i could use hark or ords, so depend of what i know do with both of house.

I always need be ready to worst oponent army,

u need spect of a atr player minos and drones and sards and about a harkonnen player , devas and airplanes.

So , u will decide what house u are going use.

Second step is start always with cheap units , but , a advising ,

if u use atreids vs ords , u may start using fac first , using a bunch of bikes early to stop dust leveling on troops.

by the way , i use ref or barrack at first , it depends about who am i playing with and against ,

But , u need chat with ur partner at first to decide what u guys are going do first and what strategy seen u guys know what house they are going use.

U need know who is ur partner and if u are going do a defensive game or offensive game or attacker game.

U can use many style of game to play depending if u wanna close game or attack rush first than ur oponnent or , etc.

a third step is training ur speed building and dont watch all time ur oponnent base , u spend time watching him as he build and u keep slowly building cuz of losing time for watching him.

So , its wrong watch all time ur partner.

u need just see quicker if he got hangar , if not , u continius on ur strategy always need be ground at first , except in 2 v 2 , strategy game , so  , 1 of u guys can go to air first.

i think have answed most of question of ur post , but if not , just tell me what doubt , i will advise u about it.

late dude ,

have fun

ASS , Master youko.

[Voodoo Daddy]

Hey Alchemi & Youko, thanks for the tips. Sorry for the delay in reading them and replying. but two months ago I got sick, BAD sick, and I haven't been on the 'Puter much. I hope to get back on the sand soon. The bitch of it is, after not playing for so long, now I'm REALLY going to be rusty, LOL.

[pearlmen]

Hey, Voddo. I reply for your question for too long time.

You dont need to be an elite. Its just a game. When you want to play for fun, and anyday you can come to play and rock and roll.

But let me give you a short of tips.

FIRST, DONT GET any bo even someone of elites give to you, get always its is always true.

It due to that where your base with opponent distance and what think your tatics.

ref first or fac first or bar? any things ok what your think about for the situation.

SECOND, watch out what your ally do(it just when you play in a team game)

When your ally do attack or under attack, you watch out what ur allyer doing.

THE last tip....You have to get some get important hot key.

like a Q W E or D V (or somthing)

but what I have to said to you, just play for fun.

Dont get stress, even your skill poor than someone. Its just a game.

Peace. :)