Battle for Dune is Like Battle for Iraq

[ken124578]

What disgusts me the most is that terrorists destroying the WTC, and saddam protecting them.

[lowzeewee]

what disgust me most are the pictures in the first link of the post of gob...........eeuuurgh.......especially the boy with his face deformed and his eyes being most of his face........ :'(

[lowzeewee]

What matters most=Overall,its the pple from both sides who suffer >:(

[ken124578]

What matters most=

What matters most = preventing saddam from gassing/infecting the USA and its allies (not to mention the middle east since that's his dream) with biological and chemical weapons, killing more people then the total deaths caused by this war.

[lowzeewee]

just get him to fuck out.....

Oh well,why isnt *forgiving god* doing anything about this >:(

[Dante]

Because *Forgiving God* doesn't exist.

[lowzeewee]

precisely,thats y i *nav-asterix* that ;)

[Anathema]

What disgusts me the most is that terrorists destroying the WTC, and saddam protecting them.

False. Bush did use this excuse initially to justify his war, but he was unable to find evidence and thus hopped over to an entirely different excuse, and later on yet another one...but that's another story...

Bin Laden and Sadam hate eachothers guts. Put them in a room and there will be blood all over the place- their blood. Bin Laden is an ultra religious fanatic and Sadam is the leader of a secular state whos policies depopulate entire mosques every year.

[Acriku]

Saddam did say he was disgusted in the terrorists, but was he saying the truth? Perhaps, but then again who knows what he really believes. Assuming he does actually hate the terrorists, it doesn't mean he won't work with them. Or protect them. He could be using them to destroy America, even though he hates them. Like a druglord using his enemies to help him, and then kills them when they are done with their usefulness.

[Miles]

USA like tleilaxu,not hark ;D

'crying like a little bitch...........'

Hmmmmmmm......

If u can 'stat the opinion of my own' then why cant I?Is there any offense in what I say?Then go read EdricO's posts then,u little alcoholics anonymous bitch

I'm not in alcoholics anonymous, I'm not a quitter.

Since I made my comparison of Dune with reality, what have you posted that has been relevant to this discussion? I expected you to back up your claims not with sources, you moron, but with logic and reason. Instead you start whining about how Americans detest what you write. Again, I'll ask you to rebut my analogy, but instead you'll probably start whining again.

In what way is the US like the Tleilaxu?

[ordos45]

The most dirty, in my oppinion, that USA did, was to actually bomb Iraqi military installations many months before the war started...

We've been doing that for twelve years, not just months. US and British planes have been enforcing the little thing called the "No Fly Zone". There are a lot of people who say, because of this, the war never ended.

As for Saddam and Osama, I'd have to agree, they wouldn't get along very well, probably kill each other if placed in a locked room. Add Bush, and they'd unite to kill him, then kill each other.

[Cyborg]

We've been doing that for twelve years, not just months.

Month in plural can exceed years... ;D

[SpiceGuid]

I am french and not really a supporter of the US war.

But depicting Saddam's Irak as the good and US as evil goes too far in propaganda.

That is simply not true that US don't care about human lifes. Saving lifes is the highest priority for US.

Americans will support war only if US loses are strongly limited. And UNO, allies, and arabic countries will tolerate war only if civilians loses are also strongly limited. Moreover it is not proven that Saddam has dangerous weapons and is willing to use them. This encourages US to even more limited loses, because the war justification is questionned.

Just consider the figures, deads are currently in the hundreds. Can you name a past country-wide conflict with more limited deaths?

That said, Frank Herbert himself has acknowledged strong similarities between Dune and middle-east, saying that Spice could be oil and the Guild could be OPEP.

And US appear as the emperor side, not the hark side.

However there is one major difference: the power of the emperor lies in the heavy infantry (just like romans). Whereas US power lies in air superiority (an Atreides trait in Dune2000). So in my opinion US military superiority is not as high as the romans. Because controlling the land is by the mean of infantry. Moreover, US war plan is not a conspiracy, if war is not legal it is more because of us (frenchies) than because of emperor duplicity. And US are not cowards, they fight themselves, whereas the emperor mainly uses another house to his own interest.

[lowzeewee]

SHaddam=Saddam

Because Saddam is gonna get ousted and shaddam was dethroned....

[Dunenewt]

There is a great article on the official dune site about the similarities between Dune and modern times (OPEC as mentioned above is one of the mainy references, it is refered to as the CHOAM)

http://www.dunenovels.com

[Dude_Doc]

Anyone who lives in America knows that their country is not Giedi Prime. Also, Atreides has a lot of houses that do not like them, just like the USA. I mean, if it were Harkonnens out there on the field, all mosks, civilians and other "important" things in war would be destroyed. Isn't it Hussein who is evil? He commands his paramilitants to occupy a mosk, and force the US army to shoot at it, but of course the US army isn't stupid. They know that when the mosk is destroyed, they will post it all around the media, accusing the US army of destroying their religion and mosks.

[Miles]

SHaddam=Saddam

Because Saddam is gonna get ousted and shaddam was dethroned....

Saddam isn't the emperor of humanity, just one small country. Nor does he have the kind of power the Shaddam did. Remember, until the Fremem were exploited by the atreides, the sardaukar were the baddest in the universe.

I would like to reiterate, though, that the US is nothing like the atreides. Remember that Paul killed billions in his oppressive reign, and Leto probably killed that number each year of his 3,000 year reign. That is not our intention.

You really can't compare the US to anyone in Dune.

[nemafakei]

Ironically, Shaddam and his Corrino supremacy is far closer to the US...

Note US/UN as House Corrino/Landsraad

Note Sardaukar/US army.

[Cyborg]

Anyone who lives in America knows that their country is not Giedi Prime.

It is more or less barbaric in my oppinion to kill so many people to resign a military leader.

They are happy with loosing only about 42 or so troops so far compared to Iraqi's xxx(x)* casualties.

Baghdad is not yet taken, though, so the american troops have many more future losses to wait for...(especially if it turns out like it did in Vietnam)

*Note that this number is not calculated yet. If any journalist at fox news or any other

[Gobalopper]

Retalition for the first Gulf War? What happened in the first that they would want to retaliate?

Tell me again why the US should do what countries like China, Russia, and France say when they have their own ulterior motives? Especially France who wasn't "listening" and said outright that they would veto any resolution that would allow Iraq to be attacked if they didn't comply with the UN rules.

[Cyborg]

It was filthy of USA to ignore UN, though.

But it didn't matter much, because they were already bombing as they had been doing as long as I can tell.

As for the retaliation stuff, I am deeply sorry if I said something wrong. I read that stuff on some website while surfing, and used it as an argument, itidotically done by me though, against USA.

*Let's continue the discussion as if not my argument was posted.* :-[

Err, I mean ignore the retaliation stuff. The rest of my last reply was actually correct enough compared to what some others post in here. ;D

[Cyborg]

If USA wouldn't have made their attack, less people would have died though.

I felt sorry for that father loosing 14 or 15 of his family members when the coalition force bombed them... :(

Try to turn that into a morally correct deed...

[Gobalopper]

Cyborg do you know what Saddam has done to his own people? How many of them he has killed?

The US is trying to avoid civilian deaths as much as possible. Bad things happen in war and it would be impossible to attack a country and not kill any civilians in the process.

Iraqi soldiers are using human shields, hiding out in hospitals and mosques, and dressing like civilians. If anything you should be mad at them because they *are* purposefully using and killing civilians.

[Cyborg]

I actually knows alot about what Saddam do to his people.

That he kills all the military commanders if they stay in their job for more than 3 years, that he kill everyone who say something against him. He even kill for no reason.

But that doesn't make the war a morally correct deed from the coalition.

There could still be done some attempts at diplomatic solutions, but as Saddam referred to Bush's sayings as stupid, it didn't seem as if he was about to retire from his position.

The war was inevitable, and it is good to know that Saddam will be removed from his position.

The US is trying to avoid civilian deaths as much as possible.

You are partially right, but the British forces report that the americans are far too aggressive. Hence more civilieans die than if they used more time. (Sources: msn and I think cnn too) USA doesn't have an extremely strong economy for this war(Source: the news on norwegian television), though, and that may, just may, be the reason for why they are more aggressive than the British.

As you can see, I am both for and against the war.

Maybe I am most for it.

I see your points, Gob.

I am just kicking up some dirt or heating the thread, hehe (may be why I seemed like being on Saddams side in my last three* replies ;). I failed to find any good reasons for my replies, though :().

*Edited in this post

[Dude_Doc]

It was filthy of USA to ignore UN, though.

No, it is filthy of the UN to ignore human slaughtering. Shame on the UN. After all, isn't their purpose to build a better world? How long has they been in power? What have they changed?