Half of the Europeans think that USA is dangerous for the world peace

[Miles]

It is far too easy to say that the US is right and that the countries that do not agree with attacking iraq are wrong.

Their tactics for appeasment will only encourage those would be rogue terrorist or nuclear states. I have stated this many times, and you all conveniently move to another topic. Do you disagree that appeasment only makes the aggressor more aggressive? If these asshole dictators like Kim Jong II see that the UN is divided, and reluctant to enforce it's own resolutions, then more Kim Jong II's will come out of the woodwork to take advantage of this weakness. In order to be an effective peace keeping force, the UN must show the world that they will enforce their resolutions.

It is the US and Germany that gave the chemical weapons to iraq in the first place during the "iran-iraq" war remember?

Big freakin' deal!!! It was a mistake. If a gun shop owner sells a shotgun to a mass murderer, does that mean that he should not support taking the gun away. I'm sick of this stupid and ridiculous argument. It is pointless.

And that countries do not agree with a war is normal.

No use in sending troops and wasting money to find the "invisible" nucleair weapons.

I'm not conviced he has nuclear weapons, but the conclusive evidence is that in the last 12 years, he has puchased materials in order to attempt their developement. Do you really want to wait until he has them to do something about it. Oh, I forgot, it won't be your countrymen and women who are incenerated in the blast, or are choked to death in the noxious cloud of VX so what the hell do you care?

there is just not enough evidence to justify a war for the moment. Give the UN inspectors more time to do their job and wait for the report.

Do you deny that Iraq kicked out wepons inspectors on multiple occasions in the last 12 years? This alone warrants war, as it is a violation of our peace treaty. Do you futher deny that he has not accounted for all his chemical and biological weapons (that the UN report showed he had)? This is non-compliance with 1441, and grounds for war.

The purpose of the weapons inspectors was NOT to play hide and seek in the Iraqi desert. Saddam was to immediatly show us EVERYTHING. Rather he is playing Europe like fools by giving them scraps here and there, and they in returned have encouraged him with their cowardice. Only through the US and British pressure have ANY progress been made.

The weapons inspections are a farce and are only buying time for Saddam Hussein.

[Anathema]

Sadam doesn't have any ready-to-fire missiles, and since Iraqs air defense is a joke any launch site that would be erected can be bombed with no civilian casualties. This is pretty much what the US and UK have been doing for the past 12 years, and it has proven effective. I fail to see the problem.

[Miles]

Sadam doesn't have any ready-to-fire missiles, and since Iraqs air defense is a joke any launch site that would be erected can be bombed with no civilian casualties. This is pretty much what the US and UK have been doing for the past 12 years, and it has proven effective. I fail to see the problem.

And you know this for fact? Iraq is the size of California, do you think that the small number of weapons inspectors can ensure that? Do you think that Saddam, in good faith, destroyed all his chemical and biological weapons while inspectors were gone? Or does it seem more likely that he hid them in much more elaborate places? Scientists who have defected have told us as much. And whether or not he has ready-to-fire missiles is unknown, but it only takes one catching us off guard to kill hundreds of thousands. We sure weren't able to stop the firing of scud missiles into Isreal were we? So what makes you think that we could possibly hope to stop all possible nuclear launches?

[DukeLeto]

reagan ended the cold war. ever hear of the cold war? ::)

Relations with the USSR detoriated horribly during the Reagan Administation. And the Soviet Union didn't fall apart until 1992, long after Reagen left office.

[nemafakei]

"I didn't want to put this in the some Iraq thread, since it's not Iraq related, it's about the whole US foreing policy towards world peace/war."

Careful not to stray...

[zamboe]

rigel6669, as you might have noticed there is some kind of paranoia in several members (Miles being one of them) here that actually think that if you disagree that means hate.

For them thear are only two possible choices : Unrestricted blind support or hate.

No, people have a right to disagree. That is fine. It makes me believe that many Europeans hate us because they burn our flags in their streets, chant "down with USA" and show Bush with nazi signs, calling us an oppressive evil empire, while their leaders get elected on anti-american platforms. I don't know, from this I could maybe conclude that many Europeans don't like us none too much, but maybe I am misinterpereting.

Then use the language properly.

Not all Europeans are burning your flag or complaining about your country. When you say "Europeans hate us...." you are putting all together in the same box, and by doing so any other comment you make sounds and looks irrelevant too.

[zamboe]

I would like to see polls where they test to find people's knowledge of these topics. It's one thing to say you think the US is bad for peace and another if you actually know what you are talking about.

I think that there is no way to do it, and also there is no point, because in that hypothetic case it would turn in to discrimination. There is no need to know if people know about their background on any subject.

This is like one of the core principals of democracy, any vote has the same value, either if it comes from an ignorant, a farmer or a Doctor.

May not be perfect, but so far is the best to guarantee everybodys participation.

[rigel6669]

it won't be your countrymen and women who are incenerated in the blast, or are choked to death in the noxious cloud of VX so what the hell do you care?

What kind of a remark is that anyway?

You have a crystal ball that can predict who will die during a war or who will die afterwards because the war was started in the first place?

[Miles]

it won't be your countrymen and women who are incenerated in the blast, or are choked to death in the noxious cloud of VX so what the hell do you care?

What kind of a remark is that anyway?

You have a crystal ball that can predict who will die during a war or who will die afterwards because the war was started in the first place?

Do you deny that the vast majority of soldiers fighting in Iraq will be American? Do you also deny that if Saddam uses nuclear, chmeical or biological weapons, then they are the most likely targets along with Isreal? I think it is fair to say that many more American lives are at risk than any other coutnry.

[Miles]

Then use the language properly.

Not all Europeans are burning your flag or complaining about your country. When you say "Europeans hate us...." you are putting all together in the same box, and by doing so any other comment you make sounds and looks irrelevant too.

Man, you are really hung up on this political correctness thing aren't you? Just like with Emprworm with the "miguel" thing, you want to cling to the wording of a statement rather than the meaning. Get a clue man, people don't always put down exactly what they intended. Of course, I didn't mean ALL Europeans, I was referring to the huge crowds announcing their hate to us by burning our flags and such, and the governments that are elected by the majority on anti-american platforms. Obviously it is more than "some" Europeans that hate us, and if my wording is not exactly to your satisfaction, then tough.

Why don't you address the points I made rather than focusing on the wording of it.

[Dunenewt]

I can't be bothered to read the whole topic so I only read the first post

My take on this is that the EU make up information to suit there purposes

I havent met i songle person in the UK who thinks USA is dangerous to world peace and most people are very pro american as we are almost brothers due to the fact it used to be a British colony (We can forget the War of Indepence cant we ;) )

[Miles]

I can't be bothered to read the whole topic so I only read the first post

My take on this is that the EU make up information to suit there purposes

I havent met i songle person in the UK who thinks USA is dangerous to world peace and most people are very pro american as we are almost brothers due to the fact it used to be a British colony (We can forget the War of Indepence cant we ;) )

Well, sometimes that is the danger of polls. They tend to get more of the radical opinions rather than the average, especially by manipulating or generalizing their wording.

How do the polls compare to the anti-war sentiment that you see on the street?

[ordos45]

Well Canada is a former British colony too! One of their Parliament members may have expressed it best when she thought she wasn't in view of American media "Damn Americans! I hate those bastards!"

[SurlyPIG]

I like to think of the colonies of the great UK like the children and the UK like the parents. The USA was the rebellious child, and the war of independance was like the day it got in a big fight with it's parents and ran away from home. Later, though, it reconciled with it's parents and now has a good relationship with them. Canada was kind of the shy kid, sort of aloof, and it eventually moved away but kept closer ties with its folks. In WWI it was kind of disgruntled that it was still living at home, and moved out over the next two decades. In WWII it was symbolically happy it could make it's own decisions, but still chose to side with it's parents. Then with the patriation of the constitution in the 80s it was kind of like it stopped calling the folks every Sunday. Australia, originally being a small penal colony, was kind of like the one that smoked pot in College.

But, I am rambling again. Back on topic.

Zamboe, I am completely on topic. This topic is about what Europeans think about the US. You and the Chilean media say that they think the US is dangerous to world peace, while the EU says they think they effect it negatively. Two very different things. I am simply pointing out the fact that either someone is a poor translator, or they're lying deliberately. (you or the media - read the EU link you posted if you don't believe me)

I shal ignore your sarcastic and arrogant remarks about linguistics because you clearly lack an understanding of what I'm even saying, so it is pointless to try and inform you about how to speak English clearly and precisely.

EARTHNUKER:

"I concur with Zamboe. Ace, you're just being a dick."

And how is that Earthnuker? Last I checked flames were not allowed, and you didn't even post a reason for calling me a dick. If something in my posted provoked you, just say so. I shal explain my position.

[Anathema]

Because you keep telling Zamboe his English skill suck, and insult the South American media because it doens't agree with you. "Dangerous" may have been an exxageration, but all media exxagerate.

[thomas]

the US is not bad for world peace ok and I hate this anti-US Bullshit if you hate the US come to my house so I can kick your ass. but BUSH is bad for world peace I hate him and he didn't even have most of hte votes! he was somehow put into presidency.

[Anathema]

It's the winner takes all system. If a candidate wins by even a single vote in a state, it's as if the whole state voted for him, wich leads to f*ck ups, like Bush.

[SurlyPIG]

Because you keep telling Zamboe his English skill suck, and insult the South American media because it doens't agree with you. "Dangerous" may have been an exxageration, but all media exxagerate.

When did I say he sucks at English? I merely pointed out he posted a link to "proof" that not only required you to register to view it, but was written in Spanish. Posted this on a site where the rules are to

http://www.dune2k.com/forum/Images/Misc/English.jpg

It's completely inappropreate. Anything else I said was directed at the fact that he thinks "performed negatively in this area" (a direct quote BTW) is somehow equal to "is dangerous".

And no, not all media exaggerates. I saw this same report on TV as well. CTV said "46% said they felt the US performed negatively in this area". Even the public CBC said "46 percent felt that the US was a negative influence to world peace" Still not totally accurate but at least they don't transform words.

And might I remind you all that "performed negatively" could mean that the person thinks they aren't doing ENOUGH? Some would certainly argue that, being the world's greatest military superpower, they should be doing more to help those under dictators, in civil war, etc. It was a poorly worded question to begin with, and the self-serving SA media made it worse.

[zamboe]

Because you keep telling Zamboe his English skill suck, and insult the South American media because it doens't agree with you. "Dangerous" may have been an exxageration, but all media exxagerate.

Earthnuker, trying to reason with some people is just like asking apples to an orange three, it'll never work.

The fact that ace thinks that in SA we have no good media, and that we don't access to watch other countries media is just like thinking that all canadians live in iglos and say aboot.

[SurlyPIG]

I never said you had NO good media at all. I said that, in general, the SA media will distort world events so it can place more blame for it's current problems on the US.

And I am absolutely right. Your very source for this somehow thinks "performed negatively" (which is a very open-ended statement) is somehow equal to "is a dangerous threat to..." Total distortion.

[Davidu]

I'm lost around here... what's SA??

[SurlyPIG]

South America. When you type posts as long as Zamboe and I do, it's nice to use abbreviations. Especially when answering each other. Boy that takes a while...

[Davidu]

Yeah.. I see.

[GhostHunter]

USA IS world peace...

[Davidu]

USA can't assure peace in its own back yard and you say USA is world peace. Well, that would be nice... but it isn't so.

It's like the death penalty: USA has it, but you advice everyone else (actually oblige) not to use it.