An American's opinion

[Edric O]

The issue of Iraq comes up everywhere these days, including all the forums I visit. And some people have interesting opinions. In particular, there is one American who said something that I think more people should see. For the most part, I agree with him:

I think the US should cease giving any type of foriegn aid, pay off all of its debts, and step out of every other countries affairs.

Put up huge walls around our country so that no one can get in without being inspected thoroughly.

Do not let any boats close to our shores that are not registered and checked.

Stop participating in things like the UN and NATO.

Our government should not give anything to any other country and should ignore other countries affairs as long as they have nothing directly to do with the US.

People will bitch still, as always, about the US and how it isn't doing enough. But, I like that idea better than the way it is now, with people bitching and whining about everything we do do. This way I can just say 'fix _your_ problems, _your_self'.

Forget Iraq. Ignore any weapons he may be creating, ignore any people he is threatening, and let him do whatever he wants to whoever he wants to over there. Of course keep gathering the same massive amounts of intellegence, but don't share it with anyone. His missiles can't hit us. Focus on keeping his people out of my country. So, forget Iraq, leave the UN and NATO, and step way out of world affairs.

I won't defend my opinion on this matter, because I don't need to. It's my opinion. Tell me it's naive, ignorant, selfish, stupid, dull, or tell me how it just wont work. Pretend like I respond with 'I care what you think of my opinion. Sike.'

[VigilVirus]

I agree with everything except 'his missiles can't hit us'. September 11th anyone? But, he has a very good point that I definately share with him - if US does not get into the affairs of other countries, there will be NO terrorism, because there will be no cause for terrorism or any act of war.

[TMA_1]

hehe yeah! this guy is totally correct. its what I have been saying for awhile now.

[Acriku]

It'd be a good idea, in theory, but it is too nationalistic. I mean, jeez, just let all the Axis of Hate(not evil, as Bush put it) countries take over and be a power to reckon with like Hitler was able to become. Yeah, turning away from the problems won't make them go away, and it'd be too selfish to not help the ones in need.

[TMA_1]

hmm acriku, your right damn it.hehe no I see what you mean. but we do have to cut back on our globalism. we cannot economically, militarily, and morally depend on other countries. We should help and be allies, but we shouldnt melt with other countries.

[Anathema]

This will never happen. America has a proud tradition of meddling in others affairs.

[Acriku]

Damn proud Earth :D Besides, who else can afford the resources it takes to help people out against dictatorial leaders, and with the ability to actually do it? G.B. might, and they do, but we have enough to do it without serious drawbacks and we might as well do it. After all, our president is all for destroying the Axis of "Evil ::)."

[ordos45]

Hmm, sounds like an essay I did in English recently...something about the United States should return to Isolationism. As for the "Axis of Evil"...Iran was once an ally before a revolution, Iraq was once an ally during the Iraq and iran War (Heck, some of the missing bio weapons are the ones we gave them to use on Iran), and North Korea never an ally but we've been giving them aid for years.

[Dante]

This will never happen. America has a proud tradition of meddling in others affairs.

Actually until WW1 they mostly stayed out of European quarrels. And even then it took ages for America to join in (Good thing Bush wasn't around then or he'd probably have helped the Kaiser...).

In any case; I think this is half right. Build a wall, childish, expensive, and pointless, but ok, if you want to. Stop meddling? Great! Do us all some good. But stop negotiating? Not a good idea.

And what happens if Saddam and his evil regime take over us weak non-Americans? What happens when every continent apart from the big walled one is pumping out Anthrax? Then you'll be sorry...

[SurlyPIG]

Whether or not this idea is good or bad does not alter the fact that it is socially and economically impossible. The US would completely collapse if it cut itself off from the rest of the world. Its economy would enter a huge recession and in order to get out the US would probably have to consume so much it would pollute itself filthy. I mean think about it; no foreign oil, no foreign fruit, no cheap labour and foreign manufacturing, no foreign materials, no foreign foods, no foreign aid if they lose their sources of food, reduced tourism business, diminishing population (this would be good in the short-term, but later come back to haunt them.

[emprworm]

Whether or not this idea is good or bad does not alter the fact that it is socially and economically impossible. The US would completely collapse if it cut itself off from the rest of the world. Its economy would enter a huge recession and in order to get out the US would probably have to consume so much it would pollute itself filthy. I mean think about it; no foreign oil, no foreign fruit, no cheap labour and foreign manufacturing, no foreign materials, no foreign foods, no foreign aid if they lose their sources of food, reduced tourism business, diminishing population (this would be good in the short-term, but later come back to haunt them.

lol, i disagree with this completely. Capitalism is exceedingly flexible. There is enough ....more...far more than enough food in the US to feed everyone four times over. Technology already exists to make cars that do not consume oil. US companies that make their products over sees will simply bow to competing companies that make products here. The US could survive completely internally. The car thing would take a while, but I actually like it. It will force us to cut ties with the middle eastern oil dependency. A dependency that we, along with Europe is on like an umbillical cord. (we do have SOME oil here, however...unlike Europe which relies much more on middle eastern oil). But such an idea is absurd- it wont happen.

And as far as meddling with world affairs go, well if we look at the Iraqi's opinion, you will find it is radically different from the white euro/american caucasion opinoion. It is actually the white caucasion euro/aermicans that are cramming their views down the throats of the Iraqi people.

The nearly 100,000 Iraqi's worldwide that have fled Iraq over the last 10 years are in virtual unanimous agreement that Saddam needs to be taken down and testify that internally that view is common with the people. All those who appease Saddam are simply that: appeasers, and they do not represent the Iraqi people- only their white caucasion euro/american anti-war (anti-bush) biases. Really, I truly believe that if this war was being pushed by Bill Clinton, there would be much more white caucasion euro/american support. But regardless of what the whiteys think, it is what the IRAQI's think that matters to me.

When those who are helpless turn to world leaders for help, we should not turn them away.

[SurlyPIG]

Oh you could adapt but you'd destroy a lot of land in the process, and the economy would suffer so badly that you would no longer be the world super-power. The price of EVERYTHING would go way, way up. Everything from clothing to electronics to automobiles. Find 10 items in your home and read where they were made. Though I don't live in the US I've done the same...

TV - Korea

Stereo - Japan

Phone - Thailand

Shirt - Indonesia

Other shirt - USA

Car - Japan

Other car - Canada (under US company)

Bike - Canada

2 Texas Instruments calculators - (ironically) Italy and Hong Kong, respectively

Miniture desktop plastic stand/pole with Canadian flag - China (bleh)

And that's just consumer goods. What would happen if there was another depression-style drought? The USA is already running short of resources. Everything down to water is in short supply (couldn't help but laugh at the toilet bowl in Arizona that said "WARNING: Water not fit for human consumption)

[emprworm]

Oh you could adapt but you'd destroy a lot of land in the process, and the economy would suffer so badly that you would no longer be the world super-power. The price of EVERYTHING would go way, way up. Everything from clothing to electronics to automobiles. Find 10 items in your home and read where they were made. Though I don't live in the US I've done the same...

TV - Korea

Stereo - Japan

Phone - Thailand

Shirt - Indonesia

Other shirt - USA

Car - Japan

Other car - Canada (under US company)

Bike - Canada

2 Texas Instruments calculators - (ironically) Italy and Hong Kong, respectively

Miniture desktop plastic stand/pole with Canadian flag - China (bleh)

And that's just consumer goods. What would happen if there was another depression-style drought? The USA is already running short of resources. Everything down to water is in short supply (couldn't help but laugh at the toilet bowl in Arizona that said "WARNING: Water not fit for human consumption)

yea, I understand this. THose things are made overseas because of cheap labor. Those companies would simply pull out. 2 things would happen:

#1) The US would be economically injured.

#2) Those countries that you listed would be free-fall into utter economic chaos.

The US would recover easy enough. There are many companies that make products here that can't compete with the big corporate giants that make products cheaper overseas. This would give those smaller companies the break they were waiting for. TO them it would be a dream come true.

[DjCiD]

I have 5 items in my frezzer that are products of Canada. I didnt know you guys made my curly fries... ;D

[GhostHunter]

Well, I personally believe its a bad idea, of course I agree with a few fundimentals that the person said but I also think many others are wrong (I found the "Lets put a giant wall around us" to be quite humerous). First of all, I agree with tad-bits of what ACE and Acriku- said.

For instance, America COULD of supported itself without foriegn oil, food, manufactoring if we were the same nation today as we were 100 years ago. Empr you must know that once we entered WWI we stopped depending soley on ourselves and a lot on our European allies. So as time progressed America became fundimentally less of a independant nation and finally got into the worlds politics (For the better or worse...Ex - Somelia or WWII). But, when we started sharing supplies and getting them from other countries our ability to ever soley depend on ourselves deminished into the shadows. So truthfully, we could never support ourselves without foriegn countries again, but, thats what America is: a country that shares and exchanges with others, and from this we've learned a lot about freedom of rights, speech etc....But the chance that we could ever depend on ourselves again is long gone.

[sneezer3]

a wall would be pointless and cost to way much. due to a bad economy partly. we could way easyer buy some equipment rader scaners heat sensors etc. i don't think we should stop foreign aid because some people are in need and abused by there goverment. we shouldn't turn them down any more then we should turn abused or soon to be abused children down.

I don't think we should forget iraq because they supply weapons. and hate us and could very well make another 911. Most protesters haven't thought it though. and most hate America anyway. and all of them i have seen are in one way or another moraly on a low level. and haven't thought it though. I back the Presdent on almost all this stuff.

Thats my opinion, and i'm an American. :)

[Miles]

America could still, most definitely be self-sufficient. Our agriculture could more than fulfill our needs. Energy consumption would be an issue, but like all adversity in the past, we would come through it. Products are made in other countries i.e. electronics for the sole reason of loose labor laws in other nations. Again, we would get around that. I'm not saying that we wouldn't take a serious hit economically, but we would make it.

That is not to say that I am in favor of isolationism. It is immensely beneficial to us to be involved in the international economy, and in order for us to be involved, we have to "meddle" in world affairs to help those in need.

[TMA_1]

of course global trade is beneficial. Slavery was a lucrative trade too. Was it right? There is nothing wrong with trade. If a country though becomes dependant on other nations for its needs, then that is dangerous. You would be surprised, even many military equipment is made over seas. I find that silly.

Also, you never answered my question empr. expect an answer.

[emprworm]

Also, you never answered my question empr. expect an answer.

lol! You didn't post a single question in this entire thread. THe only actual ? question mark ? you physically typed was in the post that you said "you never answered my question". So obviously there was nothing for me to answer. lol! ::)

[Davidu]

Some nations fought for their independance. The US did that too. They must know how it is for someone to order you to do things you don't need to, you don't want to.

I think the US should continue it's trade with the rest of the world, but i also think th US shouldn't interfere in the other's nations' internal buisness.

Lately US requested the use of some military bases and facilities in Europe just like that. Those countries had to "Help" the "allies". They had no choice if they wanted to preserve their international prestige.

I think they lost some prestige through that actually 'cause they obeyed just as some "border-territories" to the request.

Think about that.

[Miles]

Some nations fought for their independance. The US did that too. They must know how it is for someone to order you to do things you don't need to, you don't want to.

We also understand that in some cases, the opressed need help in their liberation. If you can speak for the Iraqi people's wishes, then you obviously have more information that I do.

I think the US should continue it's trade with the rest of the world, but i also think th US shouldn't interfere in the other's nations' internal buisness.

Impossible. In order to protect our trade, we need to influence other governments. We cannot expect to have profitable trade relations with regions in conflict.

Lately US requested the use of some military bases and facilities in Europe just like that. Those countries had to "Help" the "allies". They had no choice if they wanted to preserve their international prestige.

I think they lost some prestige through that actually 'cause they obeyed just as some "border-territories" to the request.

Think about that.

And we have compensated them hansomely with economic aid packages, more than they deserve in some cases i.e. Turkey. It's amazing how convictions can be swayed with money. Just shows how dedicated to their ideals they are.

[SurlyPIG]

The US would recover easy enough. There are many companies that make products here that can't compete with the big corporate giants that make products cheaper overseas. This would give those smaller companies the break they were waiting for. TO them it would be a dream come true.

Like you said they can't make them as cheaply. They'd never be able to. The price of absolutely every consumer good imaginable would increase dramatically because people wouldn't be as quick to buy them when they were X dollars cheaper just a few months before. And perhaps of better quality, even.

Total recovery in isolation would be impossible during this lifetime. You would eventually stabalize, but your economy would be a shell of its formal self compared to countries like the UK. Even the now-economically disfunctional EU would surpass the USA and become the new world power. And should a food shortage occur, and the government ask to trade for supplies, the rest of the world, remembering the time before your isolation, might not be cooperative. I don't who on this board is involved in global commerce, but anyone who is would know that total isolation is not an option in this day and age if the status quo is desired to be maintained or improved.

[emprworm]

The US would recover easy enough. There are many companies that make products here that can't compete with the big corporate giants that make products cheaper overseas. This would give those smaller companies the break they were waiting for. TO them it would be a dream come true.

Like you said they can't make them as cheaply. They'd never be able to. The price of absolutely every consumer good imaginable would increase dramatically because people wouldn't be as quick to buy them when they were X dollars cheaper just a few months before. And perhaps of better quality, even.

Total recovery in isolation would be impossible during this lifetime. You would eventually stabalize, but your economy would be a shell of its formal self compared to countries like the UK. Even the now-economically disfunctional EU would surpass the USA and become the new world power. And should a food shortage occur, and the government ask to trade for supplies, the rest of the world, remembering the time before your isolation, might not be cooperative. I don't who on this board is involved in global commerce, but anyone who is would know that total isolation is not an option in this day and age if the status quo is desired to be maintained or improved.

you are right, Ace, prices would go up. But Americans have an average income of 30000 per year. Basically, we have a cushion where the difference between having enough to live and what we make is enough to withstand quite a drop in our buying power. SO even if prices go up, we just reduce our luxuries. it will suck, I agree, and put many ppl out of work, but i just don't see it as an economy killer.

but who knows...maybe it would be...i guess we'll never know :)

[Miles]

The US would recover easy enough. There are many companies that make products here that can't compete with the big corporate giants that make products cheaper overseas. This would give those smaller companies the break they were waiting for. TO them it would be a dream come true.

Like you said they can't make them as cheaply. They'd never be able to. The price of absolutely every consumer good imaginable would increase dramatically because people wouldn't be as quick to buy them when they were X dollars cheaper just a few months before. And perhaps of better quality, even.

Total recovery in isolation would be impossible during this lifetime. You would eventually stabalize, but your economy would be a shell of its formal self compared to countries like the UK. Even the now-economically disfunctional EU would surpass the USA and become the new world power. And should a food shortage occur, and the government ask to trade for supplies, the rest of the world, remembering the time before your isolation, might not be cooperative. I don't who on this board is involved in global commerce, but anyone who is would know that total isolation is not an option in this day and age if the status quo is desired to be maintained or improved.

I agree, our economy would stabalize, but we would lose much in our isolation. That is why I support global economic trade. The point was, that we COULD survive it.

[Edric O]

In order to protect our trade, we need to influence other governments.

Indeed. This is one of the most truthful statements I've seen today.