An American's opinion

[SurlyPIG]

I don't dispute that you could survive, but like Miles said you would lose a LOT in isolation. All the while, the rest of takes an initial blow because of American dominance in the world economy, but that paves the way for non-American companies, thus countries to move up the world ladder, all the while depending on each other. They would easily surpass the US as the world power, first economically, and if they so choose, militarily as well.

Kind of a paradigm. The reason you would want isolation would be because you're the world power...however, isolation would reverse that :-

[Miles]

In order to protect our trade, we need to influence other governments.

Indeed. This is one of the most truthful statements I've seen today.

Jeez, I must have said something wrong if Edric agrees with me. I feel dirty.

Yes, all countries try to influence others in order to make the world more stable for trade. It is in everyone's best interest, not just the U.S.

[Miles]

I don't dispute that you could survive, but like Miles said you would lose a LOT in isolation. All the while, the rest of takes an initial blow because of American dominance in the world economy, but that paves the way for non-American companies, thus countries to move up the world ladder, all the while depending on each other. They would easily surpass the US as the world power, first economically, and if they so choose, militarily as well.

Kind of a paradigm. The reason you would want isolation would be because you're the world power...however, isolation would reverse that :-

Isolationism would drag us down. I agree with you. That is why we must try to stay involved in international politics.

[Davidu]

The economic aids are gived to countries with inflation, those states need those money like air... unfortunately, they'll do anything for those money.

Oh, and pride and prestige can't be bought. Loyalties cant' be bought.

You pay for something - good that's you buisness - but you'll never buy an ally, or a friend. You'll just have (the best case) employees.

[Tenzul]

if US does not get into the affairs of other countries, there will be NO terrorism, because there will be no cause for terrorism or any act of war.

I absolutely agree.

Another thing is that Americans perform stupid risking lives of their soldiers

in conflicts of countries not related to them.

I would maybe agree if they had relevant evidencem and shown the least willingnes of cooperation.

[Acriku]

How would US not being involved affect terrorism of the middle east, in Israel? It wouldn't. That is their issue, the US has no affect on it to where if it stopped doing whatever, the palestines and israeli would shake hands.

The only operation that was stupid was in Vietnam, however we did learn a lot from it.

[Anathema]

There are half a dozen similar, but less known incidents, like Chile. How are those any better?

[Miles]

If the U.S. didn't get involved, Pakistan and India would have gone to nuclear war, Germany and much of Eastern Europe would have been taken over by either Germany (during WWII) or the Soviets during the cold war. Ethnic cleansing would have continued in Kosovo, Kuwait would be part of Iraq, Mexico and many other 3rd world nations would crumble without our billions in aid packages, South Korea would be communist under the oppression of North Korea, Africa would be getting little to no help for famine, aids etc..., The U.N. would be an ineffectual establishment without our hefty contribution, or our leadership holding it together, democracy would still be rare, in fact you all would probably be under a dictatorship and communism. Yet for all these good things we have done in the world the only thing we get is grief for our mistakes.

[Anathema]

The US did good things, I never claimed otherwise. If the US didn't help out western Europe during WWII we'd all be speaking Russian right now.

The point is, they also did bad things, and no matter how many good things you do you can't take away that the US should be adressed about conflicts such as Vietnam.

[Acriku]

The cries of grief often reach higher skies than the shouts of joy.

[emprworm]

The US did good things, I never claimed otherwise. If the US didn't help out western Europe during WWII we'd all be speaking Russian right now.

The point is, they also did bad things, and no matter how many good things you do you can't take away that the US should be adressed about conflicts such as Vietnam.

Vietnam in concept was not bad. The south vietnamese needed our help Earthnuker. They were being overthrown with the backings of China...that is wrong and they wanted help desperately. We were right in helping them. We were wrong in the way in which it was carried out. The US tries to help people when they ask us. This is one of our strengths...yet we don't always go about it the right way, so it is also our weakness.

[Miles]

The US did good things, I never claimed otherwise. If the US didn't help out western Europe during WWII we'd all be speaking Russian right now.

The point is, they also did bad things, and no matter how many good things you do you can't take away that the US should be adressed about conflicts such as Vietnam.

If you want to get into Vietnam, then we'll have to start a new thread, because I am going to disagree with you.

As this pertains to this thread though, EVERY, let me repeat EVERY country in the world has done horrible things. Slavery, mass murder, conquest, oppression etc... is sh#t on everyone's hands. What did the UN do about Rwanda? Everyone has horrible skeletons in their closets, EVERYONE!!!! None of these things can EVER be taken away and none should be forgotten because that is how we learn to better ourselves.

And don't brush off our good things as minor acts overshadowed by our mistakes. Too many Americans have died saving YOUR ASS!!!

[Anathema]

Excuse me Emp? There were going to be democratic elections in Vietnam, but it became clear the communists were going to win. And because democracy is indispensable to capitalism, the US backed up Ngo Dinh Diem when he cancelled the elections. I don't see how that concept is good.

And Miles, I don't think that a total of more then 2 million dead (of wich mostly civilians) is a minor incident. I'll agree that most of the mistakes the US made were because of the cold war paranoia, but that doesn't make it any better.

[emprworm]

my understanding, earth is that HO Chi Min militarily drove out the French in a communist uprsising in the north who had lived in Vietnam for almost 100 years. Using "mob rule" and guerilla warfare, he rallied mobs of people in a hoardes to violently extricate western minded people. hardly sounds democratic to me.

[Miles]

And Miles, I don't think that a total of more then 2 million dead (of wich mostly civilians) is a minor incident. I'll agree that most of the mistakes the US made were because of the cold war paranoia, but that doesn't make it any better.

I think you misread me, I did not say that what happened in Chile was a minor event. Nor was Rwanda, or Kosovo. My point is that our positive influences on the world greatly outweigh our mistakes. We have saved billions more lives than we have been responsible for killing. And we have paid for this in blood for all of you.

That is not to belittle Chile's loss, or many other countries who have suffered in part due to our mistakes, but in conflicts as ugly as the cold war, some were bound to suffer, just as some civillians are bound to be killed in Iraq. But that cannot deter us from trying to do the right thing.