Iraq Issues

Gobalopper · February 16, 2003

If you don't want a war how do you deal with Saddam? One of his ministers just said the other day that Iraq would be against more inspectors which is the plan that France and Germany want.

I don't think anyone is always for war, well maybe a few extremists, but there comes a point when that is your only option.

Edric O · February 16, 2003

IF and only IF Saddam throws out the inspectors, then I would agree to a war.

Gobalopper · February 16, 2003

What if he doesn't agree with the UN resolutions? Say the UN says he has to allow unrestricted flyovers or interviews with scientists. What about then?

TMA_1 · February 16, 2003

you see, I think the UN goes way too far. I know the no fly zone is placed to protect his people, but he is the ruler of his own sovergn nation. What he does with his people is his own business. We are not there and we do not rule. We are not global policemen. good grief. All this propoganda and global union crap is starting to sound orwellian.

Edric O · February 16, 2003

Gob, that depends on what the UN resolution in question actually says...

Anathema · February 17, 2003

Hehe...

nampigai · February 17, 2003

TMA: do you mean the US or the UN when you say 'we' aren't the policemen of the world?

I heard in the news that Germany may be willing to support a resolution, I just don't hope it has anything to do with mr. Rumsfelds threats, I fear him more than Bush because it seems as if he can think. That his ideas aren't appealing to me that's another thing.

I also saw on the News that the Arab countries wont allow strikes from bases in their countries.

TMA_1 · February 17, 2003

I mean anybody that panders to that crap. Anybody who dirties their hands with global politics and world policing. Such as the western nations.

nampigai · February 17, 2003

I agree that we can't decide on how everyone should live, I really do. But I also agree that Saddam is dangerous but like the illustration posted by Earth says I think he's overrated there's people I fear more, and I also fear that the war will be great propaganda for Islamic fanatics. They don't see other motives than conquest, and hatred. And I believe they will respond with more terror.

emprworm · February 18, 2003

I find it fascinating that of all the anti-war rallies, there were curiously no Iraqi's I could find that attended. Funny how a bunch of white caucasions like to tell Iraqi's how to live. now, what are the Iraqi's view regarding the war? Does it match the white Euro/American caucasion view? Hardly.

"I think the United States is now on the right track to get rid of Saddam Hussein and help the Iraqi people to bring democracy," said Jabir Algarawi, the director of the Arizona Refugee Community Center in Phoenix, and one of the 3,000 Iraqis who have settled in Phoenix since the Gulf War ended.

With a warm, dry climate that is similar to Iraq's, Phoenix has the second-largest number of Iraqi refugees in the nation. Detroit, with 12,000 refugees, is the largest Iraqi community. Overall, 37,714 people in the United States have identified themselves as Iraqi nationals or Iraqi-Americans, according to the 2000 Census.

Since many of these refugees ran away from the brutality of Saddam's regime, for them, there is no debate about whether the United States should go to war with Iraq. "

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/IraqiAmericans030212.html

it is quite amazing and fortunate indeed, that these 37,000 people had a place like America to seek refuge (not counting the tens of thousands who have sought refuge in other countries). Oh wait, I almost forgot, TMA called this place a #$$# hole. I guess those 37,000+ Iraqi's are worse off here....? :O

if TMA and gang have their anti-war wish, these people will never see their home again.

That is a shame, IMHO

Gobalopper · February 18, 2003

Good point emprworm, I noticed that the BBC had something this weekend about a girl whose family used to live in Iraq who was getting a bunch of attention for a letter she wrote to her friends who were going to the anti-war rallies.

Here is the link to the report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2768747.stm

Here is another about Iraq exiles backing Blair:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2775981.stm

And lastly another about 'New Europe' striking back at Chirac's comments saying they shouldn't speak out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2775579.stm

Timenn · February 18, 2003

What about the people who rebelled against Saddam Hussein? And American soldiers not giving them help? They were all killed...

For the information, I saw some Iraqis today on television who were against a war in Iraq

So don't make conclusion which are based on false facts

emprworm · February 18, 2003

What about the people who rebelled against Saddam Hussein? And American soldiers not giving them help? They were all killed...
For the information, I saw some Iraqis today on television who were against a war in Iraq
So don't make conclusion which are based on false facts

i dont know about those. can you -please post some reference to those incidents? And who were these iraqis against removing HUssein? Again, please show some references as me and GOb have been giving references and not just speaking without support.

I'd honestly like to read about them.

Edric O · February 18, 2003

If you only ask people who RAN AWAY from a country, OF COURSE they'll only have bad things to say about it... otherwise they wouldn't have ran away in the first place. ::)

Edit: Earthnuker, please also use this argument yourself, because Emprworm can't see my posts...

Gobalopper · February 18, 2003

Obviously not every Iraqi exile is going to be for the war but it seems a large number of them do.

What about those people that died? Are you saying we shouldn't invade because we didn't help enough then?

emprworm · February 18, 2003

Obviously not every Iraqi exile is going to be for the war but it seems a large number of them do.
What about those people that died? Are you saying we shouldn't invade because we didn't help enough then?

exactly. and why did they flee their country? in the 21st century, no one should be fleeing their country in terror. That is unacceptable. These people did nothing wrong. We are talking upwards 100,000 people over the last 10 years. That is a LOT of refugees. and for everyone that gets out, many do not. Remove Hussein. Support the Iraqi people. ANything less is just pandering to France's wallets.

Timenn · February 18, 2003

I saw those Iraqis on the Dutch television. It was on the first channel, around 18:15 GMT

And about that rebellion:

http://indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=29498&start=0

On top of that at the end of the Gulf War I, when Bush (on TV) encouraged the Iraqis
to rise up in rebellion, then when it looked like they were on the verge of ousting
Saddam, the US Admin suddenly gave permission for the Iraqi army to fly their
own (Iraqi) helicopters. Result: Rebellion quickly crushed. The folks in the army
and the intelligence service would have been acutely aware that this would be the
outcome. So why did they do it. To leave Saddam in place. Heck if democracy broke out
it could spread all over the Arab world, and then the people would demand a fair
price for their oil. The purpose now is to put in their own obedient dictator
-anything but liberation!

I'm surprised you missed that...

Edric O · February 18, 2003

Hmmm, have more people put me on their ignore list that I don't know about? ;)

Let me say this again:

If you only ask people who RAN AWAY from a country, OF COURSE they'll only have bad things to say about it... otherwise they wouldn't have ran away in the first place.

Timenn · February 18, 2003

Hmm, in the same program on TV a Iraqi said that only rich people are able to flee.

Rich people are only 1 group of all Iraqis, so you can never know the opinion of the 'normal' Iraqis

Acriku · February 18, 2003

I don't see why Emprworm mentions the "the white Euro/American caucasion view" when they weren't the only ones protesting. Just seemed stupid to me.

You probably do edric, a possible Fed2k triumvirate against you ;)

That doesn't necessarily make their views tainted, just more passionate. But anyways, what is this charade about "we got people supporting it" oh but "we got people not supporting it" oh but "my number is bigger" oh but "that's just the white Euro/American caucasion view" oh but blah blah blah. Who cares? We know people support it, and don't support it, nothing is achieved by going back and forth on support or lackthereof.

Gobalopper · February 18, 2003

No I've heard about that. The US didn't give "permission" to Iraq at that point the war was over and their was a cease-fire in place. The UN created the no fly zone which didn't allow the use of airplanes but allowed helicopters, they didn't say "ok you're allowed to attack the rebels using helicopters".

The US didn't want to take out Saddam at the time because of the unstability it would cause in the region.

Timenn · February 18, 2003

And now, when Bush is angy because he didn't got Osama Bin Laden, he suddenly gets the right to conquer Iraq while those people didn't?

Acriku · February 18, 2003

Well he didn't give up on him yet, there is still fighting at Afghanistan, which I doubt he's still in.

Timenn · February 18, 2003

I didn't said he gave up. But the chances aren't really high that they will catch Bin Laden

Acriku · February 18, 2003

Well he could very well be dead, but what would be really sick is that he lives in a New York apartment. That would make some question our security.

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