Something GOOD Bush did- or do you think he is too evil to do anything good?

[emprworm]

1. It is unconstitutional for the Government to shell out money to Churches.

2. People investing money, eh? Hmm...must be a coincidence most investors tend to have lots of money.

3. Do you really think that buisinesses will use the money to hire more people? No. They will use it to buy their CEO's new private jets. As always. "Trickle-down" economics never work.

now for the corrected version:

1. It is fully constitutional for the government to give tax breaks to non-profit organizations.

2. THere are more than 20 million investors in the US (myself included) who invest using Datek, Ameritrade, etc, and have less than 10,000 in the market.

3. Yes. Without those people, they go out of business. proof is in K-mart, proof is in Boeing, proof is in the 10,000 layoffs that happened last month as big businesses collapse.

[Gobalopper]

zamboe the top 1% is anyone greater then $293,000+. Last I checked that isn't super rich, I'm sure they will invest it but just because they invest money does not mean the money leaves the country. And even if it does I consider it a good thing, welcome to the global economy.

Bill Gates has money invested ACE, its not like he has a hidden stash somewhere of billions of dollars. Gates also donates millions if not billions of money to charity. When you invest money it goes into other areas of the economy. If every rich person was to sit on their money then yes I would think a little differently but they don't.

I don't think they should have the same reductions though, I think they should all pay the same percentage of income in taxes. The rich are going to get a larger percentage drop in a tax cut because they are already paying a larger percentage. I am for flat taxes, if someone is at 50% and another at 30% and you want your flat tax to be 20% the person at 50% is going to get more back because they are already paying more.

[emprworm]

the era of getting rich off nothing...sarting up a dot.com and making 200 million dollars, buying lavish estates and private jets is over. that era was the clinton era. it is not happening now. in fact, people are SELLING those things to stay afloat.

the clinton era of making a billion dollars from a dot.com that never even sold 10 items is over.

[zamboe]

Stuff just doesn't cost that much. Now when you only make $15-20k, you pretty much HAVE to spend almost all of it just to get by.

What exactly you mean ?

Forget about the low class (15-20k income), about 60% of the consumer goods are bought by the middle class, there is where the incentives must go, they are the ones who need help to buy big ticket items.

Low class only upgrades items when the cash increase is so small, like they will buy non fat milk, instead the regular cheap simple milk.

[SurlyPIG]

its not my right, but i believe it is the governments job to protect its citizens. when a woman, for example, wants to throw her 2 year old child in a dumpster, it is in societies interest to tell her what to do with her child.

What a pathetic attempt to dodge the issue by changing the subject. What'll it be, emp? Do you want the raped girls to have abortions or not? Because if you say yes, so will the ones that sleep around. You CANNOT draw the line. Don't back down now.

and? Big deal, this happens anyway. Maybe Jack should learn to control his penis and not go poking around, because Jill might sue for rape regardless

But the only reason jack is even on trial is because Jill couldn't get an abortion otherwise because people like you pushed to ban the proceedure entirely. Unless of course you believe it's Jill's choice...In which case you absolutely cannot forbid anyone from having an abortion.

At least the child isnt sacrificed on the altar of evil and can grow up and not be an imbecile like his father Jack who couldn't keep his fly shut.

Why is it Jack's fault? It takes two to have sex. What if they've had sex before? What if it was consentual? Should Jill be refused an abortion because it was? (and don't let me catch you in another contradiction)

of course they cant. Sperm cells will not passively become human. learn and study active/passive euthenasia. When you learn the difference, you will better understand these two terms.

It's happened before. Pennetration is not necessary for procreation to occur.

AHHH! So now at least in THIS CASE you are saying that "unhatched sea turtle = sea turtle"

No, an un-hatched sea turtle is an unhatched sea turtle. And the law says, "you cannot cook unhatched sea turtles" It's not a fishing restriction is it? It says you can't eat the eggs :P Doesn't say "You cannot kill a turtle being."

[zamboe]

zamboe the top 1% is anyone greater then $293,000+. Last I checked that isn't super rich, I'm sure they will invest it but just because they invest money does not mean the money leaves the country. And even if it does I consider it a good thing, welcome to the global economy.

It is a good thing for the global economy, and therefore in THE LONG RUN also for the US economy, but that is not the goal the gov is looking for, they are trying to get short term results, and that is not the way do it.

Besides, the anual income 293K+ is not a completly view, you must look at the percentages of people based on their total welth, some have earned less than 200K+ but they managed it efficiently and in the years it tourned into millions.

[Gobalopper]

Well the tax cut is not the only way they are stimulating the economy remember. :) I will IM you a page with some info zamboe.

[emprworm]

ACE:

its not rape until its proven. and to answer your question, yes.

better for your parents to go to court and bicker than to have acelethal murdered.

But the only reason jack is even on trial is because Jill couldn't get an abortion otherwise because people like you pushed to ban the proceedure entirely.

again, same answer: better for your parents to go to court and bicker than to have acelethal murdered.

Should Jill be refused an abortion because it was? (and don't let me catch you in another contradiction)

absolutely. we shouldn't be killing people over sex.

It's happened before. Pennetration is not necessary for procreation to occur.

unless we are talking the virgin birth of Jesus, Ace, whether by needle or by male phallus, I think there some penetration going on.

No, an un-hatched sea turtle is an unhatched sea turtle. And the law says, "you cannot cook unhatched sea turtles

well if its simply cuz the law says so, you must think its a pretty stupid law eh? After all, an unhatched sea turtle is just a glob of organic stew with no comparitave value to an actual sea turtle....right?

[zamboe]

In the press the tax cut was the most mentioned, I didn't even know there were more incentives, it would be good to know, however so far I didn't read any positive outlook of the any analist about that package, most the opinions are that it will not reach the goal as long as other situations are not solved.

Anyway, I think Greenspan will have a speech next week, it will clarify things out.

[SurlyPIG]

Gob I just don't think it's fair to expect those near the poverty line to struggle every month to put out the same percentage in taxes as people whom it makes no difference to. Gates donates to charity because it's tax deductable and the government would take it anyway. Know what he donates to? Primarly to educational programs that put computers in classrooms across the country. Not saying it's a bad idea, but a little self-serving, isn't it?

And when Gates invests money it's in the form of a business venture...In other words to make MORE money. I'm not talking about his Microsoft stocks that he keeps to be the majority owner. I'm talking about his personal keepsake.

[emprworm]

Know what he donates to? Primarly to educational programs that put computers in classrooms across the country.

lol, you noticed that too, Ace? I think its kinda shrewd and crafty of him. he helps kids (really he does!) AND he puts back into his business. gotta hand it to him!!

[Gobalopper]

Regardless of where he spends it he is still spending it and in most cases it does help employ people or help them get an education so they too have a chance.

[SurlyPIG]

Emp, it's a line you can't draw. They either have to be available for everyone, or for no one. Anywhere in between would likely increase the number of rape trials at least tenfold, causing huge commotion, sending innocents to jail and costing millions of dollars.

Any woman can pretty much ruin any promonent man by saying he raped her. Doesn't matter if he actually did, it's the accusation alone. I'll bet you could down any politician by having a female intern claim rape nowadays. By trying to draw a line to protect victims of rape you're actually sending the 95% to jail.

EDIT : Gob, the point I'm making is that you can't charge the whole populus the same percentage for taxes because they don't contribute the same percentage to the economy. You can argue the individual points, but overall, those with money save it.

[emprworm]

"They either have to be available for everyone, or for no one. Anywhere in between would likely increase the number of rape trials at least tenfold, causing huge commotion, sending innocents to jail and costing millions of dollars."

huh? of course I can draw the line.

HOw about medical use for cocaine? Available for some, not all. (and yes there is medical cocaine. Or how about hemp...... eh?)

guns. available only to law abiding citizens.

booze. available only to thoe over 21

foster children...available only to those who pass rigorous background checks

i could think of a thousand other things if i wanted too but im gonna play so i wont

[SurlyPIG]

Emp, those examples wouldn't send innocents to jail. And you know as well as I do that the false rape claims would skyrocket - whether the right side wins or not, a rape trial is a messy, unpleasant experience...And a costly one.

[emprworm]

ya, very costly. then the dumb females will learn through their pocketbooks that futile charges are bad. and guys will be more cautious about who they poke. it would be a GOOD thing cuz casual sex would probably decrease.

[Nyarlathotep]

Hate is a big word. I don't hate the man, but I do not agree with the way he does things.

Like some people said, it's great to have good intentions, but better to put them into place.

[Anathema]

If he really did allow private prayers in schools, then Al Gore did invent the internet.

To be fair, he never said he did. As a congressman he did stuff to encourage the founding of the internet, and that is all he claimed ;)

Your analogy is ridiculously flawed, Acriku. A sperm or egg cannot be considered a human being for the simple reason that it is only a gamete. If left to develop on its own, it will do absolutely nothing. However, if the fetus is left to develop on its own, it will grow into a full-fledged human.

I think a concious human being is worth more then a fetus who has yet to become anything.

Suppose a woman carries a child. She has health problems, however, and the doctors says she has about 0.33 chance she'll die if she doesn't abort the pregnency. Will you abort the pregnancy (killing the fetus, but ensuring the survival of the woman) or do you take your chances that the woman will live? If the fetus is to be considered equal to the woman, it would be just to take the chance that the woman dies.

I don't think extracting cells from cloned fetuses is a good idea, but life is at stake here- the life of grown individuals. I'd prefer geneticly modifying animals to produce human compatible organs, but I suppose you're against that too. Better would be artificial organs.

Your analogy is ridiculously flawed, Acriku. A sperm or egg cannot be considered a human being for the simple reason that it is only a gamete. If left to develop on its own, it will do absolutely nothing. However, if the fetus is left to develop on its own, it will grow into a full-fledged human.

The fetus is nurtured and grown inside a womans body. That's not quite on its own.

But back on topic....

Bush is a moron, and he never deserved to be president in the first place. He did some good things, but other then that he's the opposite from Robin Hood. He steals from the poor and gives to the rich.

[DukeLeto]

1. It is unconstitutional for the Government to shell out money to Churches.

2. People investing money, eh? Hmm...must be a coincidence most investors tend to have lots of money.

3. Do you really think that buisinesses will use the money to hire more people? No. They will use it to buy their CEO's new private jets. As always. "Trickle-down" economics never work.

now for the corrected version:

1. It is fully constitutional for the government to give tax breaks to non-profit organizations.

2. THere are more than 20 million investors in the US (myself included) who invest using Datek, Ameritrade, etc, and have less than 10,000 in the market.

3. Yes. Without those people, they go out of business. proof is in K-mart, proof is in Boeing, proof is in the 10,000 layoffs that happened last month as big businesses collapse.

1. Bush wants to HAND DOWN MONEY to CHURCHES. Specifically. If you actually picked up a newspaper once in a while, instead of watching the Conservative News Network, you'd know that. ::)

2. Wow, less than 10,000 bucks, eh? What's a measly 10,000 smakeroos, right? ::) Thta's about a fifth of the average household income!

3. K-Mart is still laying off people...What happened to the tax cuts there, hmm?

[emprworm]

1. Bush wants to HAND DOWN MONEY to CHURCHES. Specifically. If you actually picked up a newspaper once in a while, instead of watching the Conservative News Network, you'd know that.

2. Wow, less than 10,000 bucks, eh? What's a measly 10,000 smakeroos, right? Thta's about a fifth of the average household income!

3. K-Mart is still laying off people...What happened to the tax cuts there, hmm?

now for the corrected version:

Bush is granting tax relief to non-profit organizations along with businesses and citizens.

Companies are laying off people because the era of making a billion dollars off a non-functioning dot.com under the clinton era, buying corporate jets, estates, and mega-yachts is now over. Under Bill clinton, where you could start up any dot.com you could pull out of your a$#, peopel actually bought submarines! YES! Private submarines were being sold like never before. That is how utterly bad and corrupt it was under Bill Clinton. Imagine a crooked corporate exec at a board meeting "Hey guys, after golf on Tuesday, theres a party on my sub." LOL. Those days are over. now companies are selling those things like private jets, subs, and the like just to stay afloat.

[nampigai]

he didn't pardon any of the deathsentenced while acting as guvernor, that's a good deed to isn't it?

as for the other things he've done well I can't really answer them as they don't have any direct influence on me, however the economy of the US have an indirect influence on the world.

My personal opinion about abortion is that it's the parents who make the choice, I don't think I could decide to have an abortion if I impregnated a girl though. As for using fetus for tests etc, I find that inhuman and I'm very much against it regardless of how many lifes it can safe.

[DarkElf49]

As long as it's in his best interest, of course he's gonna do something good. This apprears to be yet another attempt to capitalize on the gullability of certain people, most notably fundamentalist Christians (the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act).

Nice PR coup, but I'm not impressed.

I know this is like the seconed post, but...

If it's in any, and I mean ANY polotician's interest they'll more than likely do it. Bush is just attacking things that've been a problem for awhile, things that the Billy goat would've let sit and brin us to uin all the more fast. Lets face it the US is in decline, but we're finally getting turned around. Exaple: the econemy wasn't bushes fault, it was the product of what the preceeding poloticans did(with a mix of other things). So before you go slamming Bush, think of all the others before him, and how they've screwed, that is unless you're too narrow minded to see those things. thank you.

[emprworm]

he didn't pardon any of the deathsentenced while acting as guvernor, that's a good deed to isn't it?

no.

not unless they were falsely accused

[Anathema]

Death penalty... isn't that a little unchristianic? One on seven sentenced to death turns out innocent.

[emprworm]

capital punishment is not unchristian. personal vengeance is, however.