And God commandeth, "Kill your mother."

SurlyPIG · January 12, 2003

lol, Ace, comes in the middle of the argument.

Pardon me, I wasn't aware of the rule change that says I can't post where I want to.

you would do the same thing, Ace. If the infinite God makes himself known in time and space and issues you a command, you would obey it too.

NO. No freaking way. Not a chance. No f***ing way would I kill my mother because someone told me to. I mean, ffs, here's this God going against his OWN doctrine telling me to kill my own flesh and blood, one of the people who gave everything for me expecting nothing but my own well-being in return. I would not do that under any circumstances. NEVER. And if this God just appeared for the first time, and the first thing he asks is for me to kill someone, then he's a crappy, terrible God and I won't live my life for him anyway. I have my own principles and I sure as hell don't get them from him. NEVER assume that I would be so weak. You know very little about me to assume I would go along with the pants-pissing, life-pleading, begging population.

rogue1896 · January 12, 2003

well if you went insane you'd probably kill her anyway. or at least it's very likely you would. you'd probably remember something from your childhood where your mother said, 'No more junk til you finish your broccoli' and you'll kill her with that reason. you'd be insane and you'd lose the ability to think rationally.

EDIT - well put ace.

VigilVirus · January 12, 2003

My position:

1. Me and my family, friends

2. God

3. Mankind

Acriku · January 12, 2003

My position:

1. Mankind

2. Family and friends

3. My country

4. Myself

rogue1896 · January 12, 2003

well i don't see what this has to do with the question but what the hell...

1)Humanity

2)Family

3)Friends

4)Myself

emprworm · January 12, 2003

Ace this is a hypothetical argument.

Let us assume, for a moment, that Ace does not believe in God.

Let us assume that the infinite, eternal God who created the universe of a quadrillion solar systems does indeed exist, even though Ace doesn't believe in Him.

Now let us assume that this infinite Being appeared to Ace in time, in space, and in objective emprical fashion so that Ace were to behold a being as vast as a universe. This being has infinite power and is the very reason that Ace even exist.

Let us also assume that Ace's very breath- every heart beat in his chest, is the result of this Being's permissive will. This Being owns all life and gives Ace a command.

Ace, now realizing that God does indeed exist (the question of His existence is now answered), and also realizing that earthly human life is not the end to human existence, is given a command by this infinite God to physically end his mothers earthly life, in which case Ace fully understands she will continue to exist under the care of this infinite God that is now present before Ace.

Would Ace, in his limited finiteness, actually refuse such a command to his Creator even though he now KNOWS that his mother will not actually die?

I honestly cannot believe that he would. No matter what you say, Ace, I will believe that you would obey. No one would refuse a command given this circumstance.

Acriku · January 12, 2003

Emprworm, your whole argument is for nothing, because I asked all monotheists. I did not ask atheists, polytheists, etc, although they can answer if they want, they are more than welcome to

Edric O · January 12, 2003

well if you went insane you'd probably kill her anyway. or at least it's very likely you would. you'd probably remember something from your childhood where your mother said, 'No more junk til you finish your broccoli' and you'll kill her with that reason. you'd be insane and you'd lose the ability to think rationally.

No, actually I'd probably kill myself... or do something equally insane.

You know very little about me to assume I would go along with the pants-pissing, life-pleading, begging population.

That's funny, Ace. You do of course realize that mind control is well within the powers of a god. If, say, someone like satan had that power, your own will would be irrelevant.

VigilVirus · January 12, 2003

even though he now KNOWS that his mother will not actually die?

Ummm, that throws of the entire point of the question

SurlyPIG · January 12, 2003

Would Ace, in his limited finiteness, actually refuse such a command to his Creator even though he now KNOWS that his mother will not actually die?
Of course she'll die. If you kill someone, they tend to die.
I honestly cannot believe that he would. No matter what you say, Ace, I will believe that you would obey. No one would refuse a command given this circumstance.

Believe it dude. It's true. It's the fact that he's going against his OWN doctrine that makes it an issue. If he told me to do the hokey-pokey, I would. But I wouldn't live my life for a God that hypocritically asks me to kill my own mother.

That's funny, Ace. You do of course realize that mind control is well within the powers of a god. If, say, someone like satan had that power, your own will would be irrelevant.

Then he can go right ahead and use me as a puppet to enforce his evil, mother-killing wrath on the populus. This question isn't about mind control, it was about will and faith.

TMA_1 · January 12, 2003

I am afraid you all underestimate God, and since he is perfect, he has perfect ways of making people do whatever he wants. Of course he would never do that to us. so dont get all self rightoues guys with your "love of country,family and friends" talk. No man can be trusted and even your family can stab you in the back.

emprworm · January 12, 2003

"Believe it dude. It's true. It's the fact that he's going against his OWN doctrine that makes it an issue. If he told me to do the hokey-pokey, I would. But I wouldn't live my life for a God that hypocritically asks me to kill my own mother."

I do agree, Ace has a point there. That would make Acriku's entire question self-contradictory then.

TMA_1 · January 12, 2003

remember though. If the true Lord came to me, I wouold do anything he asked. I mean anything. Of course God wouldnt do anything against himself. but I am humoring the question acriku asked. I think that should go for all of you monothiests who should show some sort of respect for your creator, because without him you would not be here to enjoy the company of your mothers.

SurlyPIG · January 12, 2003

No. Whether it was his intention or not, Acriku is testing the level of faith in monotheists on this board.

Some people, after hearing the voice "This is God. Kill your mother." would do so. To me, they're stupid. To you, they'd have a lot of faith.

Some have said that they'd absolutely have to know it was God.

Some have said they simply couldn't do that even if they were told by God.

Acriku · January 12, 2003

No it wouldn't, because I said in all sense of hypotheticality. Even though it might contradict itself, you must imagine that that does not apply, and if God for whatever reason commanded you to kill someone, would you do it.

You don't know God's plan. You don't know his will. You know what he wants of YOU. But you do not know what he does himself.

And it is interesting that you are only willing to accept something it is goes against the opponent, me.

VigilVirus · January 12, 2003

How about this for a reason:

God wants you to kill your mother because she is the daughter of Satan (however your mother is an excellent person, who is good and is the person you love the most in the world).

Would you kill her?

emprworm · January 12, 2003

"Some people, after hearing the voice "This is God. Kill your mother." would do so. To me, they're stupid. To you, they'd have a lot of faith."

NO one said this...that I know of.

I think all of us agreed that God would appear objectively in time and space, thereby negating the issue of faith and replacing it with certainty.

SurlyPIG · January 12, 2003

A lot would do that. Not necessarily on this board, but tonnes would. Islamic Jihad? Hell, they'd do it WITHOUT being told by a voice in their head.

I find it funny that many people mentioned insanity...

When you talk to God, it's called prayer. When God talks to you, it's called schizophrenia

Dude_Doc · January 12, 2003

Because God created mankind, what's the point of making His own creations kill each other? No, it is not He who has done this, it is us. I already mentioned that there is no real religion, but all religions are different perspectives on how God created the world and etc. The Islamic Jihad have made their own belief, very much like the Crusaders long ago. They think their own belief is the right one, and that everybody must follow their religion. That is why they spend most of their lives killing people, making up plans of how to bomb this or that target etc, instead of building cities, bring food and water and medical supplies for those who needs it. The thing is, if they are such extremists, they believe in God so much that they are willing to commit suicide without God telling them to do so, they should also believe that the sinners (western countries, rich etc) will go to hell after death, right? So in the end, they sacrifice themselves for nothing.

On the other hand, God wouldn't come down on earth in physical form for such a small thing like "killing your own mother". Think of all the world wars... okay two of them, but all who died back then? That was our doing. God gave us the Golden Rules, we choose if we want to follow them or not, and I do, as well as I hope everyone here does. It's like our own laws, you better follow it for your own good, but you have the alternative to not do so.

rogue1896 · January 13, 2003

i think you guys are all missing the point. This isn't a debate, it's a question. he isn't trying to prove that God is wrong or that He would ever actually ask you to kill your own mothers. he's just asking, 'Would you do it?' it's just like asking one of those questions from...i think it was Dude Doc a little while ago. do you guys like to 'fight' that much? and when i say fight i don't mean actually fight, i mean debate with loud words.

emprworm · January 13, 2003

"they'd do it WITHOUT being told by a voice in their head."

lol. yes they do.

but I was referring to the people on this board.

Vanguard3000 · January 13, 2003

Would Ace, in his limited finiteness...

"Limited finiteness"? I have two things to say:

1) I think it would be "finity", but I'm too lazy to check.

2) If his being finite is limited, would that make him infinite? That blows my mind.

And that's my two cents. Take 'em or leave 'em.

*Takes two cents back*

Too slow! Hyuk hyuk!

sneezer3 · January 13, 2003

I was referring to sneezer's post, and I do appreciate that you answered :) as well as everybody else. I will post my purpose sometime tonight, because I have to get the virgin....err ok tonight!

Well. he wouldn't ask of such a thing. and to put a question like that is about as much mockery as to say all humenists should kill themselfs. ;)

but to answer it directly, {fineley} yes.

Acriku · January 13, 2003

You don't know if he would or would not ask somebody such a thing. He asked Abraham didn't he? So who knows, he might send a fairy to stop you because we all know he has better things to do himself. And it is not mockery. You are too sensitive.

emprworm · January 13, 2003

ok, Acriku...after 5 pages of posting, you finally got your answers. ;D he he.

See? We aren't so bad. A few twists of the arm, and sawing of off a limb or two, and we cooperate.

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