Rise and fall of civilizations/nations

[alejandro]

LMFAO, Alex, some countries are backrupt as hell, poverty everywhere, yet all the people will fight madly for their contry, its not only money, the USA didnt kick Britans ass for a new country cause they wanted a newer cooler currency ;D

Hey

[sneezer3]

1. This topic is NOT about Religion.

2. If the Lord is taking sides and helping out good Christian nations then how come Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world? How come terrorist attacks happen?

I'll tell you why: Because war and famine and poverty and hatred is all OUR doing. It is OUR mess and it is up to US to clean it up. Because the Lord has given us this world so that WE would take care of it and of ourselves, and not expect Him to solve the problems that WE create!

In every war, God is always on the same side. The side of peace.

Ok. i got your answer. took a while to get everthing in order.

First off. i din't say the Lord was takeing sides i said i think it depends on who is on the Lords side. not just any Lord either read what i said.^^^ But also not like a Christian nation but one that has freedom and choses to be Chrstian

Second off

2 -Islam- fastes growing

Luke 21:8

"And he said, take heed that ye be not deceived for many shall come in my name saying i am Christ and the time draweth near go ye not therefore after them. "

You see Islam may be the fastes growing Religion. but that don't make it right. If you <Whoever is reading this> don't think so. let me show you.

How many people have sined once? Everbody. does that make it right? No.

How many wars have been started for preety much nothing? over stupid things. Does that make it right? No.

How many times have YOU done something wrong? Does that make it right since so'n so done it an hour ago? No.

How many people die per second? Does that mean its ok to kill people? No yet again.

I could go on and on.

Numbers of people that do stuff has you can see DON"T make something right.

Second off

2-How come terrorist attacks happen?-

What oblgation does god have to a nation that has turned there back on him? We kicked him outta are schools. i hear its still ilegle to have the 10 comandmits in some schools. The founding fathers of America where christian dispite all the the falseyfing going on into history books now days.<That is most new histroy books>

third off

3-It is OUR mess and it is up to US to clean it up.-

Maybe so. but if we was more for fredom. and had more of god and more people that knew about the bible. i think god would put the hedge of protection around USA like he has done befor we dethoned him. i don't think he made it happen all i'm saying is he ALLOWED it to happen and did not interven.

In any case if you wanna talk more about it. maybe we should do it over IM or in another thread. like you said This topic is NOT about Religion. altho like i pointed out when the subject of nations comes up god & Religion comes up to.

Ok i'l shut up about Religion now. :-X

[The_Sadukar]

when I write god, I refer to the big G.

[Caid Ivik]

1. This topic is NOT about Religion.

2. If the Lord is taking sides and helping out good Christian nations then how come Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world? How come terrorist attacks happen?

I'll tell you why: Because war and famine and poverty and hatred is all OUR doing. It is OUR mess and it is up to US to clean it up. Because the Lord has given us this world so that WE would take care of it and of ourselves, and not expect Him to solve the problems that WE create!

In every war, God is always on the same side. The side of peace.

It isn't OUR doing. What is sense of humanity? Creation of the ever-lasting order, kingdom of good. That is most we can do. Maybe it is hard to see results now, but we must wait still much thousands of years. Every point in the history had it's meaning, everything cleaned something or improved something. World wars? One stopped feudalism, second opened way to unification of the western culture, which is the main of the world (and will remain it, if muslims and also some of us will find they are part of it - but look on the whole world: which country isn't using some kind of european ruling systems?). Those millions of the fallen are martyrs of the higher cause. We've chosen ourselves to do this "dirty work" to kill the natural enthropy in the universe (this act is known as Eva received the fruit from the devil), but we will receive a greedy reward for it - you know, assassins and armies are always best payed.

[Edric O]

Maybe you should rephrase that, Caid Ivik. I don't understand your point... And I don't think you understood mine.

What I am saying is that WE, humans, are responsible for our sins and for all the evil we cause. The world is OUR responsibility. God will not save us from ourselves.

That having been said, let's try to get back on-topic... hmmm... what do you think is the future of the Western civilization, and of the United States in particular? Think long-term, a few centuries into the future.

And remember that no culture lasts forever.

[Acriku]

The US will probably be here in a few centuries, it's already had been 200 years and we are thriving, but if the US does disappear in the near future, it will just be a convergence of many countries into one.

[Caid Ivik]

EdricO, I know what you mean. God gave us free will, but he created us and he could expect what we will do in future. He gave us law for single life what we have to follow, but also law for whole civilisations, which we MUST follow, because we can change one, but not millions.

Western civilisation actually isn't only USA and EU. This civilisation is based on ancient jewish (altough with ancient greeks and romans), so it is Europe as like Arabs. And other countries are also using our types of government. Nearly whole world! Democracy, communism...all is from Europe! And who isn't like Europe, wants to be like it! Just those Arabs, usually led by some anti-western fanatics are separating. But they are as materialistic as us and will of unity will soon put all those saddams and usamas down.

[Digital Guerrilla]

When I started this thread I was not looking for it to become a religious discussion or even a political discussion. What I was wanting to discuss was mainly history about different nations and their rise and fall (Rome, Ottoman Empire, Greece, Perisa, etc, etc). What political systems are better suited for the longevity of a nation (Demcratic, Communism, Socialist, etc, etc). What nations at present look as if they could be more powerful nations in this century?

[Caid Ivik]

I am talking about our civilisation. How large it is, how influentive. It's hard to talk about reasons of falling of these things without political words. Nation is very abstract word. Mostly today, when the world is globalized, and i.e.here we all speak with one language. Nation is a cultural word, which depends more on cultural things, but politics have much influence (Jews in 1941...).

[emprworm]

What political systems are better suited for the longevity of a nation (Demcratic, Communism, Socialist, etc, etc}

well we see where communism gets....nowhere. rise...and collapse. couldnt even last baerly a century.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Every nation has his own golden age in times of peace or war.

For example, the Mongols conquered almost whole Asia and Europe, they even tried to prepare a invasion against Japan.

Germany had their golden age at the start of the war, powerful technology, strong men. But later, Russia killed and destroyed most of the German troops, rendering them a easy target for invasion by allied troops.

The problem with invasions is, you can't hold a large empire which has the foundation of conquered countries forever.

Romans for example, had alot of might and strong troops, but they can't hold the German lands and the other lands in their grip.

[Acriku]

Romans didn't capture a lot of land, in which they could have a lot more than they did, because there were not enough rulers to rule them all and one ruler for a huge chunk of land the size of a few countries would be perilous (hmm US does it quite well). And I believe Russia signed a Non-Aggression Act in WWI w/ Germany, so it didn't go exactly like you say.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

In the begin of the war, the germans did it well. But later in the war, when Russia or either Germany broke the pact and attacked eachother. The Russians killed alot of Germany's soldiers..

And what does US do good? And explain me what you mean with 'so it didn't go exactly like you say'

And that is the problem with ruling a big empire, it takes alot of effort to keep it in control.

[Acriku]

US "rules" over a lot of people and a lot of land pretty well, especially compared to the small countries in Europe.But enough of US...

[Digital Guerrilla]

I agree with your statement Emprworm. I am not an economic stragetist but the Communist system has no free trade market I think that is one reason it will never work beyond what we have already seen. There is no private enterprise in the Communist system the government has no way to generate revenue from taxing the private run businesses. The way a communist system is run is like choking yourself.

[Caid Ivik]

Very powerful seems todays system in China. It's like a worst communist nightmare - everything is controlled by one corporation. But that corp is state itself. With the productivity of a billion populated country, they are respectable concurent for us.

[quoudam72]

Sandwraith: very good observation and good point about the communist system

Caid Ivik: China's power in their regime is due to the size of there labor pool (billions of Chinese). The fact that one corporation is run by the government helps alot also, including the fact that China exports more than it imports. We all have something that says 'made in China'. This of course does not mean that if you are communist this will equal a successful regime.

[Dude_Doc]

So what the US? Even if they do fall somehow sometime, there will still be another "western" global "ruler". What if China changes into democracy year 2123? What if they become the Democracy of China? Don't say the US is the worst thing on earth, just because you say so.

[quoudam72]

China a democracy in 20 years I do not think that will take place but stranger things could happen.

[path_xiii]

Any political system needs a likely host for it to survive. Has anyone ever noticed that the architecture of the government buildings at Washington D.C are the same as the architecture of ancient Rome? Well.. ancient Rome had a democracy and a Republic system - which is what the American political system was based on.

Its as though the Democratic/republic system was resurrected in a new host.... if you'd like to look at it that way.

[Acriku]

Quon he said 2123, 120 years from now ;)

[quoudam72]

Yes thanks Acriku just a typo I ment 120 years. I still think even in 120 years China will not be a democratic state they are firmly rooted in their communist ideals. The 19th and 20th centurties have not favored China with foreign occupation, devastating famines, civil disruption and military defeats some of these being the reason they are at present a communist state.

[Acriku]

Well a lot can happen in 120 years :) USA might not be here, the territories might be all changed, one big country might reign supreme over all western society with a convergence of sorts, etc.

[quoudam72]

I do not believe that not based on the current political government in China. Unless China's political control is relaxed the way it's economic control has been since Deng Xiaoping has been in control then maybe but their is no evidence it will happen this way. China's accession to the World Trade Organization (a year this week 12/11/02) might be the only thing to change anything in China but that won't be a governmental change.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

It will be great if the world is truly united into one big civilization called the "Humans"

We'll need to be united if we're going to colonize other planets.

And if we're going to fight agaisnt other aliens, and "if" we stand a chance against them, all countries should work side by side.