Medical Cloning

[Caid Ivik]

But it already has soul. Ah, I've forgotten that you think about yourself as just couple of flesh, Earthnuker.

"If you were forced to kill either a chicken or an egg, wich would you kill"

I think that human has bigger right to live than a chicken.

[Anathema]

But wich has more right to live: an unsentient egg or a sentient human being?

Define "soul".

[Caid Ivik]

Of course human, but if you mean with that "unsentient egg" human embryo, they are equal for me.

Soul is source of "self". It makes you superior to other lifeforms. Difference between ape and human is genetically only 0,3 %. Soul makes you able to write your next argument here.

[Anathema]

Most of our DNA is latent and rudimental, and the amount of active DNA we share with apes is much smaller- though it is undetermined how large that percentage is.

Can an embryo think of an argument for this topic? Then how can you say an embryo has a soul?

[Caid Ivik]

Soul is a creator. Linked with brain, but because brain isn't grown it doesn't mean it's an animal. Would you kill for medical purposes just born baby? It can't think too, but has soul and it IS human, which can't be killed even by atheistic rules.

[Anathema]

Embryos are not born babies, and babies have brains and are sentient.

If I pluck a hair out of my head, it is human- does that mean that one hair of mine is equal to a human being?

[Acriku]

When you prove a soul exists, we can talk about it. A lot can be explained by our feelings, chemicals, hormones, etc. And I think soul a ways back was used for a metaphorical sense more often (like judging a person by "the blackness of the soul").

[Caid Ivik]

Your hair have no ability to grow to full human being. Embryo has, altough it's fully dependent on mother.

Define "sentient".

[Anathema]

Sentient= Self aware, able to think and make decisions.

Believe me, I don't take cloning lightly- but I believe it is right to do so in order to save human lives.

[Inoculator9]

A hair has the potential to become biomatter for a species.

When you think of cloning you think of cloning an entire person. I don't think I'd approve of this, but cloning limbs is totally alright.

[Caid Ivik]

So, to clone just part of body should be acceptable, but how we know which part makes human intelligent being?

"Embryos are not born babies, and babies have brains and are sentient."

"Sentient= Self aware, able to think and make decisions"

Earthnuker, when you were born, you had awared yourself?

[Anathema]

No, but I was already concious- though of course I had no idea what was going on.

[Caid Ivik]

"Concious". That insect I've just killed on monitor was conscious too and I don't think about it as equal to human.

[Inoculator9]

So, to clone just part of body should be acceptable, but how we know which part makes human intelligent being?

What do you mean. Do you mean that that if a cloned limb is attached to another person, we may attaching a sentient arm to someone?

[Caid Ivik]

So, which part of body makes us intelligent, if soul is in whole body? But can we say it about separated i.e. arm?

[Inoculator9]

So, if I were to lose my arm, I'd be less of a person?

[Acriku]

The brain makes us intelligent ::) If a soul exists, then wouldn't the head part be associated with the brain (what makes us intelligent)?

If you lose your arm, you become less of a human physically, but not necessarily mentally. Some can't take the loss of a limb and go nuts, some deal with it.

[Inoculator9]

Of course it makes you less physically but you're no less a person.

[Repoman]

the brain is you the rest is just a meat machine simple as that. You die you live it makes no difference. Cloning will generate exciting new possibilities. Embrace it or be left behind.

[Caid Ivik]

If brain is the physical core of human, than any other part should be cloned.

[Anathema]

But to do that, we'd still have to do hundreds of experiments.

[Inoculator9]

Sure we'd have to do experiments, but no one is really the worse for it.

[Caid Ivik]

I think it's better to do no such this. Good alternative would be cybernetical prothesis.

[Acriku]

Why is that caid? Don't be afraid of technology :)

[Inoculator9]

He said that technology would be better. Cybernetics would be great, but thats just as far away, technologically as cloning replacement limbs. If cybernetics were a viable solution I'd support it rather then cloning.