Pakistan: A Failed State?

[Dunenewt]

How long before Pakistan collapses into anarchy?  Great swathes of the state are now effectively lawless, especially the border with Afghanistan, and with terrorists being trained in Pakistan, and spreading to other states, such as India, how long before more foreign intervention will take place within Pakistan?  Will it be necessary for India to start cross border incursions to take out these terrorist training camps?  Certainly the Pakistani Gov't is in no position to negotiate, and the Indian Gov't is under pressure to take a tougher line against terrorism, but such actions would further undermine the Pakistani Gov't and possibly bring about its collapse.  Could there be another military coup on the cards, or maybe even a coup by the 'Pakistani Taleban'?  Just thought I'd bring this up, as its quite relevant given the recent terrorist attacks in India.

[Edric O]

The lawless tribal areas along the northwestern border with Afghanistan are small and sparsely populated - which is why the Pakistani government found it most convenient to simply ignore them until recently. They're certainly not "great swathes" of the country.

However, it is true that the central government of Pakistan is very weak, and riddled with corruption and factionalism. It's difficult to say exactly who is in charge of the country. As for the solution - at the moment there simply isn't one. Any hostile action by India would only succeed in starting a nuclear war.

[Dunenewt]

Actually, a hostile action from India would have to be an all out invasion for Pakistan to even contemplate nuclear war.  Simply put, Pakistan is too subservient to India to risk nuclear war, and it does not have the capability to prevent India from retaliating, so it knows that even a nuclear attack would be pretty futile.  The Pakistani President (whose name always escapes me) is pro-Western too, and knows using his nuclear weapons should be a last resort.  If India did start cross border incursions, I can see it toppling the Pakistani Gov't pretty quickly.  Because the Government is so weak, this is what makes large areas of the country lawless, its just a matter of time before insurgents in Waziristan begin to spread.

[SAND]

I wouldnt be right to straight away come to conclusion.. Under estimating countries is the riskiest thing ever! People really ignore the fact that Like India pakistan has very strategic allies of it but its the government that is responsible for all the mayhem... Countries like China SaudiArabia or syria etc.. are very useful to it if only it knows how to use them and further more the government doesnt make the right use of money even if they raise it with extreme difficulty hence innocent civilians have to suffer...  Pakistans original purpose was to give liberty to those people who were being misstreated beforre its formation...

Its also very small compared to humoungos India but has still managed to survive the so fat battles put up by India..  Pakistan has fucked Israel, India 2times Russia 1 time and is still a small country.. It has got the highest skilled Pilots in the world and has the best Commandoes now ranked the Worlds second best! It may not have the latest technology but is struggling to do so and it deserves it after all it helps USA fight terorism and is still baring the burden of being called A terorist nation! Now isnt that unfair...  It has always helped in the un peace process and has negotiated with other countries.. It has targeted 5largest countries In India with its neuclear warheads and India;s destruction is just a button press away!

Many countries have fallen down record low but have managed to pick up the pace sooner or later may be Pakistan will do so... Pakistan has one o the best students i the world and has been ranked one of the worlds most bravest warrior by the USA it self...  It all depends on the government of Pakistan, becuase who ever has so far governed the country has been a corrupt personality and that sucks all this country needs is a devotd honest government which could settle good relations with all the countries in the world and hopefully it could get its golden years back..

Pakistan has formed in extreme pains and when it formed it was said that itss future generations would still have to bare the burden more sacrifces needs to be made and education is one of the top most priorities in the country but the curent circumstances doesnt allow the Government to allocate its budget on welfare due to teroists attacks on the country it has to allocate them on millitary goods etc...

I am sure that this country has a lot of potential to suceed and have good reltions with India Or Israel or anyother but there must be a fair play on both the sides then only woruld it resolve the matter..

Pakistan has been through this failing phase before..several times actually..but has most certainly become united sooner or later and has overcome its matters and one of the core troubles with its failing is because its Balochistan province is not focused well on even is Sindh province and those two provinces hold the highest quantities of Uranium, Crude oil , and many more natural resources in the entire nation.. But conflicts between the citizens them selves have been preventing these resouces from been extracted..

In the feild of technology Pakistan a few years back had been way obsoloete in Millitary warfare goods but now it has finally begun its own efforst to create it own goods along with help of the chinese. It has produced cost afective Airjet:- The JF17  or the Al-Zarrar tank etc.. It does have the skills to do this but low GDP low reaserch..

The highest raiser of its income is its feild of Agriculture where it has heavy potetial if it could Aloocate its GDP well enough on Agriculture and it has produced the worlds best uality of Manges ans Mandarin.. It would again need to specialise in field of agriculture if it wants to have a good chance of Survival.

Pakistans government has not used oil in the right way either.. When it did the neuclear test Saudi Arabia provided it free oil for 4years! It could have rexported it for good cash and raised its income but it was not the case and further more It hass been reported that Pakistan has enough resources to be a self suffiecient country in the field of power generation of Agriculture or salt mining or Precious Stones and gems which India lacks! But this is not achevable because of bad governance...

All in all Pakistan could not yet be termed as a failed state yet and has good capability to Rise .. only time will tell..

 

[SAND]

There is another important thing I would like to add:-

The suicide bombings which have been taking place within Pakistan .. have you ever even tried to find who did that?

India! India trains the terorists and sends them across Swat in Pakistan and provides the terorists with technology that even Paksitan it self has never seen before! So Paksitan has to make the Indians taste there own medicine! Pakistan has never been termed as terorist before!

Its all a cuning plan of Anti-Pak countries to take over the land as shown in the future map of PK and The so called America's "War On Teror" is no more the concept all America wants is to capture over the natural resources found in Iraq and Afghanistan and wants to capture the neuclear arsenale of Paksitan!

War on Teror has only become a cheap excuse for it killing innocent muslims! And no matter how strong evil gets good will always prevail and one day win...

[Khan]

Any evidence for the india claim?

[SAND]

The weaponry the terosits in pk attacks are only used by Indian millitary... I dunno what tthere names r since i aint a weapon genious and there is a evidnce also on the recent Merriot Hotel Bombing in Islamabad:- The truck which exploded near the hotel has a special type of bomb in which first it was bursting into flames then was silent for a while then booom! This is special technology which Pakistan doesnt poses but the Indians do!

And India has always wanted to capture the punjab province of Pakistan there jealousy is on the extremes and the future map of pk drawn by American think tanks also shows that india is a whole lot broader it has the punjab area of Pakistan which shows its intentions are evil...

[Dunenewt]

You really buy into a lot of propaganda don't you?!  There have been training camps for terrorists in Pakistan for years!  Who assassinated Benazir Bhutto??  The Indian Gov't were not behind that one!

[SAND]

Let me correct you, You know the reason why Benazir was killed? America and India wanted to seprate the Balochistan province from Pakistan becuase it carried strenght of the country they constantly tried to persuade them to seprate the province to make the country weaker and are still doing and the government was also falling for the trap and so Benazir came in the scene she had the flare of keeping it pakistan she said to eveybody that this province shall be united with Pakistan and so the American Intelligence must have informed pakistans corrupt intelligence to shoot benazir on the spot and also she had been taken to hospital very late which clearly showed that it was a planned assasination attempt...

Another incidence that occured was  the lawyers movement in Pakistan in which Justice Iftikhar Ahmad Chowdary blamed the Pakistni intelligence for seling its men to American intelligence! SO our corrupt govt once again blamed him and tried to put him out of business but strikes started to occur and so began the Lawyer movement in Pakistan!

[Dunenewt]

You cannot seriously believe this kind of stuff!  Yes, your Government is corrupt, and that wont change no matter who is in charge.  The fact is Pakistan does not have the power to stop terrorist training camps within its own border.

[SAND]

It isnt an easy job to fight terorism as it seems to be...

SO MANY YEARS OF WAR IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN COULD THE US FORCES STOP THE TERORISTS BOMBINGS? ITS NOT SO EASY AS IT LOOKS TERORISTS ARE CUNING PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO...

Pakistan had no suicide bombings no teorist tags before the the whole 9/11 thing started. No even after the 9/11 was Pakistan facing such problems but since the USA targeted Pk it has never been a peaceful country! People from afghanistan migrated to pk  during the war thing it was not pk people them selves who are terorists Afghanis are infiltered amongst us who arec apturing minds of poor kids who have no where to go and they train them to be what u call terorists but when poeple say Madrasas host terorists i a wrong thing, I have been in a Madrasa and I have studied Islam and the so called famous "Jihad" means to struggle to achive something and there is no such thing as holy war! Holy war is a word invented by the west.. For example if yu struggle in ur studies u r doing Jihad in ur studies(its that simple).

This is the point where a terorist is formed when he takes the wrong meaning of the word Jihad and spoiling the name of Islam. If you would rape your sister and say it is a part of Christianity would I assume it is Christianity that allows it or is it you your self who is respnsible for this kind of behaviour? The answer would be you your self right? The same problem is some thing Muslims nowadays are facing.. Causing wars has so far increased the terorist attacks in the world instead of putting an end to it.. The only thing it has caused is Lives of innocent people for which the anger of an everyday muslim has increased and what is boosting terorism!  Amongst 1millio muslims 3 to 4 are tagged as terorists which are no more regarded as muslims by Islam.

And as you said I wouldnt fall for that propaganda... Woud you fall in for some one calling all muslims terorists would u call in for mosques all of them training terorists? U see we both face the same questions.

If people like Benazir enters our govt we would surely be better of but unfortunatley good people dont manage to survive the race  of life but will also noever vanguish from earth! I hope one day our govt realises that An Honest death is batter then a truckload of dollars. Only time will tell..

[Dunenewt]

Firstly, don't assume because I'm from a Western country, that I am a Christian, because I'm not.  Also, are you being racist against Afghan people, I can't quite make it out.  Also, there is such thing as a holy war; have you not heard of fatwas either?  I know someone who went to Pakistan, to a terrorist training camp, and is now in prison for terrorism related charges, that's good enough for me.

[SAND]

I never disagreed with the fact that Pakistan has terorist camps Many are infiltered amongst us. And racism? Hello The USA is heavily racist country calling us Slaves or Niggers or Pakis etc... And most of all Teorists! Why is that so?

[Khan]

So you're a student of the two wrongs do make a right school eh?

[Dunenewt]

I'm not from the USA, so I'm afraid I don't see your justification for being racist, SAND.

[Sneakgab]

Even if you were from the USA and were racist, what would that have to do with justifying Sand being racist? Not to say that he is or isn't racist though.

[NodFan]

this is not true Pakistan do not do any teror reason I know because my mom and dad are from Pakistan and they were born there but i was born in USA

[Dante]

My grandparents told me that Dresden wasn't an ancient city of art and culture known as the "Florence on the Elbe," but secretly a nazi experimental site where they tried to make zombie Hitler clones, and they were alive in 1945 and I wasn't.

Not to be flippant or anything, but illogical reasoning annoys me.

Besides which, if there's any failed states around it's Zimbabwe. A country of so much promise repeatedly punched in the groin by its own leadership now suffering outbreaks of cholera of all things? Seriously? The situation has moved beyond corruption and violence, now it's just stupid. Seriously. What kind of moron leads a country into cholera outbreaks...

What next, diptheria? Syphilis? Polio...?

[SandChigger]

And racism? Hello The USA is heavily racist country calling us Slaves or Niggers or Pakis etc... And most of all Teorists!

Dunenewt isn't from the US but I am, despite my current location, and I'm here to tell you you're exactly right. We're ALL racists and completely unrepentant about it! YEEHAW! I can't wait till next summer when I can get myself back home again and take me part in some more lynchin's, yeah!

But I would like to set the record straight on a point or two...

I ain't never called one of you people "slave". (One of my ancestors WAY back up the main branch of the tree had a few REAL slaves back in Old Virginny, but we're a collateral branch what come along too late to enjoy any of that.) And y'ain't no black Negro, so it'd never enter my mind to call you a "nigger". (I don't think of your people as Arabs, and "Pakistan" doesn't evoke massive deserts for me, so I wouldn't even use that word with "sand" prefixed to it.)

I learned the term "Paki" from some English and Australian friends when I first came to Japan about 20 years ago and have used it on occasion when joking and pretending to be a racist; but I seriously doubt many Americans are even familiar with the term, much less use it or think it.

But I believe from now on I will definitely use "Teorist", as in "Conspiracy T[h]eorist", when thinking of you. :D

[Dunenewt]

Here's a ranked list of failed states:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4350&page=1

It has Zimbabwe at 3, Pakistan at 9.

[vota dc]

India is training suicide warrior for attack Pakistan?

I don't know if that is true,but in that case...well those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

Pakistan messed Afghanistan and created taliban.It is just an artificial country created by the english,like Iraq.

[SandChigger]

Are the artificial countries less healthy than the natural ones?

I want to cut back, but I'm worried about nutritional values....  :P

[Edric O]

Heh. In practice, the term "artificial country" only means "a country that was created recently." After all, the creation of new countries is nearly always the result of power games between various elites and ruling classes. How many countries were created by asking their people if they wanted their own country? In other words, how many countries were created by referendum? A few. But the vast majority weren't.

Most of the time, a new country is simply the territory under the control of a warlord of some kind who defeated some previously existing countries and took some (or all) of their land. After getting his new country up and running, the warlord then proceeds to engineer a national identity to consolidate his power. If he succeeds, a few generations later we get something called a "nation," and the country becomes "natural."

Back in 1871, Germany was every bit as "artificial" as Iraq is today. But Iraq doesn't have a Bismark to make it "natural."

[Tatar Khan]

Back in 1871, Germany was every bit as "artificial" as Iraq is today. But Iraq doesn't have a Bismark to make it "natural."

The reason Iraq is not natural is the fact that they have no strong personality to unite the country. They also have many different values too. The Bismark's Germany existed as a Confederation for defense purposes before Bismarck. They shared common values and religion. They also had more common identity due to suffering that they felt during Napoleonic Wars. I think it was that 1/3 of the Germany population died due to those wars.

Iraq has two religious groups that do not respect the country, they have Kurds who want independence.

The problem lies with the fact that the American's can't put a strong leader in power due to obsession over democracy, for which the Iraq is not ready due lack of social institutions. The second problem is the guerrilla movement that they are failing to control.

Anyway Mr. Obama said that US is leaving Iraq to its people. So we going to have a good bloodbath there after Americans leave and all the separate guerrilla groups try to go for power. Everyone will blame the bloodbath on the Americans again.

[vota dc]

For artificial I don't mean imposed.For example if an united Korea under the rulership of Kim Jong is a natural country,but imposed.

For artificial I mean countries that lack territorial unity,common language etc.

Germany have a common language,Italy created a common language (italian in 1861 was spoken only in Florence).Iraq lack common language.

Pakistan from the beginning was a failure.Was the country for the islamic people of the indian region...just check the map:Pakistan west and Pakistan east:that country failed from the beginning.