Suicide

[Tako]

not saying you'r weak just a matter of speach in overall not to you in person, of course we do'nt know what is out there but from my life-phillosophy and belive there is no life after that (except in the memory of those you leave nehind)

in my opinion there is only one real good reason to end you'r life,

when you are terminaly ill and there is no hope and you will only get in a lot of pain in the days to come I think it is accepteble to end you're life, one should not suffer needlessly, my grandmother did it and we all agreed that it was for the best, she would not have lived longer anyhow, this way she was spared a lot of needless pain.

I know there are people who think there is also a mental pain that is onbarelble and should be defined as such but in those cases there is always a bigger chance of 'recovery" no mather how bad things are.

and just to warn you all: don't touch my grandma, you can judge my input and opinion but not my grandmothers choice ;) (not that I think you would have but still, would not like that, think you understand)

[Anathema]

If she would remain alive, there would be lesser chance to punish Tarquinius Sextus. This was a perfect psychological act. There are many historians, which describe Lucretia as one of the first victims in fight for democracy, you know.

I know what happened after her suicide. Yes, it did cause a civil outcry and made the expulsion of Tarquinus Superbus possible but she could not possibly have foreseen that.

Gunwounds: I never even thought of that. It's so simple too, the perfect argument against reincarnation.

[GUNWOUNDS]

INot quite proof though is it? Just because souls are being recycled doesn't mean that more can't be added.

George Carlin's point was who is adding the souls?

Reincarnation is a belief that you dont need a God as your Ultimate Reality.

[Antagonist]

Not meant to be offensive, but I think suicide is for losers.

It is a quick and easy way out of a potentially joyfull life, that can be a burden sometimes.

Of course I can imagine that some people consider suicide an option, whould I by any chance be convinced that suicide will be my only option (having a week to live due to some sort of fatal disease for example) then I would wrecklessly live out the remaining days and make a change in the world.

Like kill some dictator/child mollester and make a change.

Whatever the outcome you will be dead soon anyhow but you would have done something to be remembered by.

Consider the fremen view on suicide, perhaps the old crippled people would willingly suicide for the good of the tribe and for the preservation of their water.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Not meant to be offensive, but I think suicide is for losers.

Stop holding back

[ps501]

Its illogical cause its a waste.

[GUNWOUNDS]

(Though I think it would be a waste of a perfectly good Porsche :) )

hehe atleast you got what i meant

[Khan]

I think it was pretty obvious what you meant ;)

With regards to your long post about reincarnation, there appears to be a bit of a misunderstanding between us. My 'belief' in reincarnation isn't spiritual, if you catch my drift. I don't belief in Karma and I don't belief in any sort of Nirvana. This is all there is and it just keeps on happening. Whether on not there is someone/thing behind it, I don't know/care, being agnostic and having the 'belief' in reincarnation that I do it doesn't matter whether there is someone behind it or not. As to where the souls come from, I think that you are thinking too much inside the box. Who says that souls are limited to staying within the same species/planet/universe. The souls could come from anywhere, or they could behave like amoebas, constantly splitting into two(I am thinking of amoebas aren't I ???). My point is that you have your own beliefs and you will always argue your point as if what you believe is the starting block and everything else has to challenge it, which is fine. However, neither one of us can prove our belief until its too late, so it is even more illogical to rule one belief out than it is for someone to believe in it.

[nemafakei]

Until the Suicide Act of (I think) 1960, suicide was illegal and punishable by death here in the UK.

To those who would oppose suicide in all situations: If for example a terminally ill person in great pain with no hope of comfort is capable of committing suicide (without assistance), is it not fair that they do so?

"WHERE ARE ALL THE EXTRA SOULS COMING FROM?"

Assuming no reincarnation, but a belief in the soul, where do they 'come from'?

[Antagonist]

Stop holding back  antagonist.... tell us how you really feel.

I hate it when people pity themselves, you should love and cherish yourself.

A lot of youngsters get into a depression because they aren

[GUNWOUNDS]

I think it was pretty obvious what you meant ;)

With regards to your long post about reincarnation, there appears to be a bit of a misunderstanding between us. My 'belief' in reincarnation isn't spiritual, if you catch my drift. I don't belief in Karma and I don't belief in any sort of Nirvana. This is all there is and it just keeps on happening. Whether on not there is someone/thing behind it, I don't know/care, being agnostic and having the 'belief' in reincarnation that I do it doesn't matter whether there is someone behind it or not. As to where the souls come from, I think that you are thinking too much inside the box. Who says that souls are limited to staying within the same species/planet/universe. The souls could come from anywhere, or they could behave like amoebas, constantly splitting into two(I am thinking of amoebas aren't I ???). My point is that you have your own beliefs and you will always argue your point as if what you believe is the starting block and everything else has to challenge it, which is fine. However, neither one of us can prove our belief until its too late, so it is even more illogical to rule one belief out than it is for someone to believe in it.

my post wasnt totally directed at ya.. it was also for the original poster as he mentioned it first.

but i see that your belief system is more of a New Age scientology "anything goes" type deal where you sorta piecemeal stuff together to form your own religion.

And about starting from my viewpoint or whatnot when arguing... well guy here's the thing.

[Khan]

Hmm, you still don't seem to understand. I don't really believe in 'souls' per se, and I certainly don't believe in Karma, the lives we lead are linked to the next one through common consciousness, not through a spiritual connection. Ergo, your 'common sense' butcher idea doesn't disprove my belief, and neither does george carlins quote, stop confusing what I think with the hinduism belief and it is a lot harder to disprove.

""anything goes and i dont care""

No not anything goes. If you can disprove it, it definitely doesn't go, and I most certainly do care. If I didn't surely I wouldn't be banging on about my beliefs.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Hmm, you still don't seem to understand. I don't really believe in 'souls' per se, and I certainly don't believe in Karma, the lives we lead are linked to the next one through common consciousness, not through a spiritual connection. Ergo, your 'common sense' butcher idea doesn't disprove my belief, and neither does george carlins quote, stop confusing what I think with the hinduism belief and it is a lot harder to disprove.

""anything goes and i dont care""

No not anything goes. If you can disprove it, it definitely doesn't go, and I most certainly do care. If I didn't surely I wouldn't be banging on about my beliefs.

First let me say that you started out saying "souls" in your previous posts so if i misunderstood then it was because you didnt state your exact beliefs at that time....

However i believe that you are just abusing semantics because you want it to be (read below) :

[Khan]

The use of semantics is to seperate it from christianity, and other religions. To say that if I believe that there must be a supreme being means that I believe in God isn't quite true, which is why I don't use the term. Supreme being could be a god, many gods, heck it could even be aliens. Supreme being is just there to make sure I'm right if there is something out there. ;) Basically its about not knowing. God, a god, gods, aliens, I don't know which way to go, but I reckon one of them is out there.

As for souls, the same thing applies and again you are half right. I usethe term common consciousness just to differentiate it from the religious view where we have something inside of us which is judged for our actions upon death, whereas I believe that the slate is wiped clean on death and you don't have to make up for your actions.

As for the harder to disprove comment it is aimed at your butcher idea. Since I don't believe in Karma I don't think the next life that we will lead is at all based on the one we lead now, it is random. That's why it is harder to disprove on your butcher theorey alone, and I've already made my comments about the george Carlin thing.

[Caid Ivik]

When you say "God", it is a different as "god". You say they are similar that both are "supreme beings", but this is no semantics, but eurigennan realism in a twisted form, where you take words as more actual than the thing it is pointing to itself. Like I am a human like you, but still, we are not the same thing, we have not a same essence. You can say so that everything is "being", same for this comp or a brunnenkresse in some austrian garden, but this is thing which has been already explained enough. So be careful with such use of categories.

[stefanhendriks]

We are here all talking about being young and healthy. I miss the point where people only suffer. Where the so called 'praised to be alive' people are better off 'dead' (harsh to say, but you know what i mean). What i mean is, people who cannot regocnize their own family due alzheimer. When nobody helps them, they will rott into their own .... And so on. People with horrible deceases, having 24/7 serious pain.

And, like that in the US recently, keeping someone 'alive' (read->BRAIN DEAD) 14 years long is not a way of living.

Suicide is an option there, and i am proud that my country has a law for that.

[ken124578]

I think suicide shouldn't be a way out of anything except when there is no cure and the person is in a lot of pain.

About suicide destroying God's creation:

Diseases destroy God's creation.

During the crusades we were destroying God's creations.

Even now people are destroying God's creations (middle east / executions in china)

What's up with that?

[GUNWOUNDS]

I think suicide shouldn't be a way out of anything except when there is no cure and the person is in a lot of pain.

About suicide destroying God's creation:

Diseases destroy God's creation.

During the crusades we were destroying God's creations.

Even now people are destroying God's creations (middle east / executions in china)

What's up with that?

why bring up unrelated incidents to try to make your opinion seem valid? Suicide has nothing to do with hunting terrorists in middle east

[VigilVirus]

Forget about God. Forget about morals. Think about suicide as it relates to you and you alone.

For example, I'll examine it from a self-utilitarian perspective:

Fact: You will die.

Fact: Suicide requires effort.

Fact: Death usually does not require effort.

Conclusion: Why work to achieve something that will come to you at no expense anyway?

If you're really unhappy with your life, don't just slash open your veins, but rather consider getting the most out of a bad situation. You'll always have a chance to kill yourself, but instead, since life matters so little to you, use it as an excuse to do things you'd never thought about doing before - taking risks, throwing it all away, since it's so bad. After all...what can you lose but your lifel, which you're so ready to give away anyhow?

[ken124578]

And... what if you can't do anything you want and just lie in bed, lying on your own excretions (I heard a story like that) and in huge pain.

why bring up unrelated incidents to try to make your opinion seem valid? Suicide has nothing to do with hunting terrorists in middle east  and has nothing to do with ancient culture that persecuted other people.  Come on man.  I grow weary of hearing bizarre left-field arguments.

And disease? *sigh* ...why compare a natural death with someone cutting their life short?

Heartattacks end God's creation too .. why didnt you bring that up?  *sigh*

Yeah, forget what I said :P

[Dude_Doc]

There are cases in which death is logical. I can't say that I understand every suicide, some are crazy, some are more "justifiable". Don't get this wrong - suicide is the worst option, and to commit suicide because of love or depression of some kind seems childish. But as I said, I haven't gotten in any such situation to actually know or judge them as "justifiable".

On the other hand we have deceases that can last the whole life - an example is tinnitus - it is a constant beep inside the ears, or rather, the brain renders a damaged ear's "perception" of sound as a single, disturbing tone. Tinnitus can varry, most have a very low pitch and can get by or learn to live with it through all kinds of techniques.

Others have such hard or high pitch that they can't do anything at all. And the worst of it - there is no cure for this decease. Not even a daily pill or drug (like diabetes) to reduce it.

Those who have the worst type of tinnitus often commits suicide. Are these persons weak? Are they cowards who can't face their pain?

[stefanhendriks]

why bring up unrelated incidents to try to make your opinion seem valid? Suicide has nothing to do with hunting terrorists in middle east

[GUNWOUNDS]

i have no clue why you are addressing me.... and i have no clue as to what you just posted.

[stefanhendriks]

i have no clue why you are addressing me.... and i have no clue as to what you just posted.