Need Help With Questions Concerning Dune? Ask Here!

[Imperial Sardaukar]

Are sandworms and sandtrout originally native to Arrakis? Or were they somehow brought by someone or something?

[Andrew]

I remember reading somewhere that Sandworms came from another planet and that Arrakis was once a "green" planet. (Note the polar ice caps)

But I can not remember where reading it.

[Vanguard3000]

There's no explanation as to the origin of the Sandworm (in its various forms).  It's purposely left to the reader's imagination.  I personally made a stupid little story about it once, called Legacy.  Search the fanfic board if you're so inclined.

[gunner154]

There are many concepts I have yet to understand. I've read up to Heretics once, don't have Chapterhouse yet...

Dune books are so difficult to understand, I have a tendency to read them and when I finish the book, I can't come up with a summary of the story or anything... oh well...

1.) What makes Alia an abomination? I know it's about Jessica taking the water or something. So why?

2.) How does the black box which Paul put his hand in works?

3.) WHAT IS THE GOLDEN PATH!?

4.) Why was Teg and the whole gang trying to save that lone sandworm in Heretics?

5.) Did Arrakis become a lush green planet in GEoD because Leto took the sandtrout suit?

6.) Since sandtrout is attracted to water, is water poisonous to sandworms because in the presence of water, the individual sandtrout break the fusion and seek out the water, causing the sandworm's body to rip apart?

7.) Why do sandworms eat humans and vehicles (and harvesters to ;))? Is it because of territorial control like TMA said?

[Dante]

1- Because Jessica took the water, Alia was exposed to adult experiences and memories before she was even born, including Bene Gesserit training. As a result, she had the mind of an adult prior to her birth. Some people found this upsetting. Also, this power without actually having done the training herself rendered her unable to properly resist the other memory, which then took over in the form of the Baron and made her abomination.

2- Direct stimulation of the nerves in the hand. It can be done today.

3- The method Leto II planned to use the save the species, as far as I can gather.

4- Can't Remember. Must read Heretics again... If it's what I think it is, though, all is revealed in Chapterhouse.

5- Well the sandtrout don't generally bother with snappy business dressing; but yes, because the sandtrout were gone, the water was released, and the planet became fertile again.

6- Not as such. In the original books, if I remember correctly, it is a single sandtrout that forms a sandworm, not many sandtrout as the prequels suggested.

7- They eat anything on the sand. ...Come to think of it, I'm not sure why, since they avoid other worms.

[Andrew]

4. I'm guessing because the sandworm has a part of Leto II in it, and will probably have some part in saving humanity. Also the spice is a bonus for the Bene Gesserit. Even though spice was being maufactured at exorbitant prices.

5. Liet Kynes and those guys had already started to change the planet into a more hospitable planet, which continued changing over the course of millenia.

6. I believe you may be partially correct, as when Leto fell tino the river, his sandtrout flow apart, pretty much "killing" him.

7. They are high in protien. ;)

[gunner154]

Right.

So the world became green because Leto took the suit or because Kynes was planning it and set everything in motion? Or both?

Then why did it become Rakis which was a desert planet?

Is a sandworm made up of one giant sandtrout or millions of sandtrout? Does a sandworm's body contain water (within the sandtrout)?

It's a little confusing here...

ALSO, can we say that Paul refused to take the suit out of selfish reasons? He feared that HE would have his memories hidden in the individual worms forever, and HE would not be able to do anything, yet HE would still exist?

[Andrew]

It did not have to do with Leto II becoming a worm. Just because he became a "worm" does not mean the planet will turn green. Although Leto II may have wanted the planet to turn somewhat into a greener planet and obviously was not totally against it turning green, otherwise he "could" have simply tried to kill it all. He definitly wanted part of Dune to remain a desert, because he did not want to wipe out the worms, and himself. Because he eventually was going to become a worm, he would obviously want a place for himself to live in the desert.

Yes Kynes set it in motion. I think someone says that in the books.

Do you mean why the name of the planet changed from Arrakis -> Dune -> Rakis ? (I think I missed an Arrakis in there.)

Is a sandworm made up of one giant sandtrout or millions of sandtrout? Does a sandworm's body contain water (within the sandtrout)?

I am not certain. TMA-1 has a great image somewhere, although not sure if it is on the site anymore. I think many santrout gell together to eventually become a sandworm. The sandworm then grows, dunno how. Maybe eating stuff :P.

Don't know about sandworms containing water, doubtful.

About Paul, I doubt it was because of that specific reason.

[gunner154]

Is TMA-1 still around here? I don't happen to see him post recently...

[Andrew]

He is still actively here.

[gunner154]

I will be waiting for his answer... and I will keep waiting... waiting... waiting...

[Sober]

It did not have to do with Leto II becoming a worm. Just because he became a "worm" does not mean the planet will turn green. Although Leto II may have wanted the planet to turn somewhat into a greener planet and obviously was not totally against it turning green, otherwise he "could" have simply tried to kill it all. He definitly wanted part of Dune to remain a desert, because he did not want to wipe out the worms, and himself. Because he eventually was going to become a worm, he would obviously want a place for himself to live in the desert.

Didn't Leto II become a worm so he could watch the GP fullfilled? He was supposed stop the human race's gene pool (or something like that) from stagnating. Guess Paul's Jihad didn't do it, so 3500 years of oppression and being stuck on one planet will do that. When he died, there was the Scattering, and people started to use space travel again.

Do you mean why the name of the planet changed from Arrakis -> Dune -> Rakis ? (I think I missed an Arrakis in there.)

Wasn't it in Heretics, (forget who mentioned it) that just said that over time people just shorten names down? Arrakis turns to Rakis, Arakeen turns to Keen, etc.

[Andrew]

Yes, that is true, but I was talking about why Rakis was so green.

I believe that may be true about the names. :)

[TMA_1]

hey gunner! I will try answering those questions for ya. sorry for not posting earlier, I thought nobody posted on this thread anymore. hehe I am going to start posting in it a heck of a lot more though, got lots of new ideas. anyways...

~~What makes Alia an abomination? I know it's about Jessica taking the water or something. So why?

Answer: The bene gesserit society throughout it's history used deadly drugs as their test for those to become reverend mothers. They used them because once taken, they had to physically break down the drug so that it would be safe for the body. THat and the trip of the drug itself expanded consciousness, and allowed a reverend mother to tap into the collective consciousness of previous reverend mothers. Later in their history, they came upon a drug that performed mcuh better than any previous drug for the ceremony. That is the Water of Life, or the pure and unadultrated spice melange.

The crux of the matter is this though,

In the bene gesserit texts, one of the greatest commandments was not to take the water of life while with child, because that child too would have the ability to communicate with previous reverend mothers, and would create a pre-birth consciousness. The danger was the fear that a child would not be able to take in all of this, and that the past lives of the reverend mothers would more easily possess an impressionable child that had consciousness thrown on her at such an early age. These children were called "abomination" because they could more easily become possessed by past lives, and that is exactly what happened with Alia. hope that answers that one, if you have more questions on it than just IM me. :)

~~How does the black box which Paul put his hand in works?

Answer: The box uses nerve stimulators which manipulate the nerve endings of a hand, creating a false sense of pain (usually a feeling of searing flesh). This was used to see if a person would react by instinct (like an animal), or if they would act on their own survival, (because a gom jabbar would be placed at the neck of the person during the test. So either you faced the pain and lived, or you reacted to the pain like an animal, and died. Kinda like the Amtal Rule in a way.

~~WHAT IS THE GOLDEN PATH!?

Answer: The Golden Path was leto's sense of what the future should be for the survival of the human race. For thousands of years the majority of people lived on their planets, stranded there because of the extreme expense of space travel. After all this time the gene pool of mankind was stagnating, and without any kind of "push out the door" so to speak, mankind would eventually become extinct. So because of this, Leto II set up a system of religion and rulership that challanged the natural freedom of individuals. After thousands of years of this, mankind felt cooped in, and wanted to break free. When Leto II died, mankind urned for knowledge and exploration. Because of this the Starving occured, where mankind lived for awhile in a state of chaos and anarchy from the power vacuum that leto II left behind after his death. WHne mankind finally got back into shape, they started traveling all throughout the universe, exploring and settling in completley new places. This caused mankind to mingle with others they hadent previously been able to, and this rejuvinated the gene pool, thus staving off the eventual extinction of man. This great exodus was called the "Scattering". hope that helps :)

~~Did Arrakis become a lush green planet in GEoD because Leto took the sandtrout suit?

Answer: WHen Leto II took on the sandtrout suit, a lot of the sandtrout that originally took all the water from the water table of the planet became one with Leto II. The rest died out, and also because of the terraforming plans set out by Pardot and Liet Kynes, this created an eventual fertile and lush environment in many parts of Arrakis (Rakis).

With the desire to make Arrakis green, and with the eventual destruction of the old sand trout, water no longer was taken away from the crust of the planet, and this obviously would have elevated the water table, and would have made it impossible for the large sandworms to exist.

When Leto II died, all of the sandtrout on his body scattered, and eventually started the process of making Arrakis (Rakis as it would eventually become known) a barren world once again. The Terraforming stopped as well because of the lack of Leto II keeping the planet green with weather satillites and with the sandtrout that were apart of his body.

~~Since sandtrout is attracted to water, is water poisonous to sandworms because in the presence of water, the individual sandtrout break the fusion and seek out the water, causing the sandworm's body to rip apart?

Answer: Sandworms are naturally negatively affected by water. This process is little known, but some metamorphosis takes place after a spice blow, where some sandtrout live, mutated by the spice essense that is contained within the balls of thousands of sandtrout. The few that survive are changed physically, and become worms. This is probably the turning point where their bodies become negatively affected by water. Not sure though really on this question, but it is my best guess. :)

~~Why do sandworms eat humans and vehicles (and harvesters to )? Is it because of territorial control like TMA said?

Answer: THe sandworms of arrakis are naturally territorial, and sandworms cant inhabit a certain territory that is protected by another sandworm. This is why the ecosystem of Arrakis cannot be trifled with, because even the smallest incursion by mankind that would bring water could ruin the territorial map of the sandworms. This forces the sandworms closer together and destroys the ecosystem.

Because sandworms are so territorial, they have built great senses involving vibrations of the ground. Obviously the only way they could sense another worm close by is by the vibrations created deep within the ground, since that is their natural habitat. Now because of this, any machine or vehicle that creates a constant vibration triggers off great territorial rage in the sandworm nearby, because they insinctually feel that their habitat is violated. The sandworm will then attack the foreign vehicle or person because the worm is protecting it's territory. that is my answer on that one.

hope these answered osme of your questions :)

[SpiceGuid]

3.) WHAT IS THE GOLDEN PATH!?

there can be more than one answer.

one possible is:

it's a future where each man is his own savior.

and that's eventually possible only if LetoII succeeds in destroying all idols, including himself.

[gunner154]

1.) In the bene gesserit texts, one of the greatest commandments was not to take the water of life while with child, because that child too would have the ability to communicate with previous reverend mothers, and would create a pre-birth consciousness. The danger was the fear that a child would not be able to take in all of this, and that the past lives of the reverend mothers would more easily possess an impressionable child that had consciousness thrown on her at such an early age. These children were called "abomination" because they could more easily become possessed by past lives, and that is exactly what happened with Alia. hope that answers that one, if you have more questions on it than just IM me. :)

2.) WHen Leto II took on the sandtrout suit, a lot of the sandtrout that originally took all the water from the water table of the planet became one with Leto II. The rest died out, and also because of the terraforming plans set out by Pardot and Liet Kynes, this created an eventual fertile and lush environment in many parts of Arrakis (Rakis).

With the desire to make Arrakis green, and with the eventual destruction of the old sand trout, water no longer was taken away from the crust of the planet, and this obviously would have elevated the water table, and would have made it impossible for the large sandworms to exist.

When Leto II died, all of the sandtrout on his body scattered, and eventually started the process of making Arrakis (Rakis as it would eventually become known) a barren world once again. The Terraforming stopped as well because of the lack of Leto II keeping the planet green with weather satillites and with the sandtrout that were apart of his body.

3.) Sandworms are naturally negatively affected by water. This process is little known, but some metamorphosis takes place after a spice blow, where some sandtrout live, mutated by the spice essense that is contained within the balls of thousands of sandtrout. The few that survive are changed physically, and become worms. This is probably the turning point where their bodies become negatively affected by water. Not sure though really on this question, but it is my best guess. :)

1.) Must it always be reverend mothers? The Baron Vladimir Harkonnen was no Reverend Mother for sure... Just to make sure.

2.) Okay, I got that. But... when Leto took the suit, isn't that equivalent to "robbing" Arrakis of tons and tons of gallons of water already? Wouldn't the only way to make it lush and green be to break all the sandtrout apart and release the trapped water? What were Pardot and Kynes' methods?

3.) From what I understand, a sandworm is really made up of just one unicellular sandtrout (or perhaps grown by binary fission, or duplication) and not the unification of billions of sandtrout?

Yeah, you really cleared lots of my doubts. Thanks a trillion ;D

[Dante]

1.) Must it always be reverend mothers? The Baron Vladimir Harkonnen was no Reverend Mother for sure... Just to make sure.

If you mean the Baron appearing in Alia's head, that was because he was her ancestor, one of the voices in other memory. It wasn't just the Baron, Alia's parents were other voices, and every other relative of hers. They didn't have to be reverend mothers.

2.) Okay, I got that. But... when Leto took the suit, isn't that equivalent to "robbing" Arrakis of tons and tons of gallons of water already? Wouldn't the only way to make it lush and green be to break all the sandtrout apart and release the trapped water? What were Pardot and Kynes' methods?

There isn't much water in a single sandtrout, and Leto didn't use that many.

The sandtrout and the sandworms depends upon each other for survival. Planting even a small garden will trap moisture. This will in turn make it easier to trap more moisture, provided it is cared for. As the garden grows larger, there is more water trapped in the plants, and the sandworms will stay away. Without the worms there will be no sandtrout and vice versa. This was Kynes' plan, inherited from his father, to start green areas all over the planet, gradually building them up to become larger. Sooner or later they would meet, as the desert space shrank and the sandworms retreated. Without the worms, and with too much moisture to handle, the sandtrout would not survive and the water they trapped would be released.

3.) From what I understand, a sandworm is really made up of just one unicellular sandtrout (or perhaps grown by binary fission, or duplication) and not the unification of billions of sandtrout?

I think that in the original books it is a single sandtrout that makes a worm. In the prequels, those most mind-numbing of books, it is many sandtrout. Do not trust the prequels.

[Dante]

Ok, new question. I was thinking about a reply in Fanfiction when this came to me (and no, I'm not using it any time soon, so anyone who thinks they can see my plots will be disappointed, mwa ha ha ha...).

When a lasgun blast hits a shield, there is massive feedback and both explode. Violently. I know this. But would any shields nearby? Say a shield next to the one hit, would that explode too? If not, why not, and if so, how far apart would the shields have to be before this was no longer the case?

[Andrew]

From what I remember a lazgun hitting a shield makes a big explosion. Kinda like an atomic bomb. So I don't see what a shield next to the shield that got hit would do. Unless you mean would it amplify the effect. I would say it does not to a big extent or if at all.

[Dante]

I mean would the shield next to it explode as well? If not, it should remain intact unless some kind of interference shuts it off. If so, how far away from the exploding shield would the second shield have to be before it is safe?

Also, if the smallest particles can be deflected by a shield (air is slowed, and light is deflected, hence the 'shimmering'), then what of other forms of energy? Does electricity or magnetism have an effect on shields? And if two people wearing shields were to run into each other, the shields wouldn't let each other pass, right?

[TMA_1]

from what I remember, when a las-gun bolt hits a shield, the extreme vibrations actually create an instability on the subatomic level. This actually creates a chain reaction that sets the instability off more and more. That is why it is such a huge explosion.  No, the other shield wouldnt be affected the same way, because it doesnt meet in direct contact with the laser bolt, which creates the instability in the first place.

if the shield was close to the blast, like really close, probably the most that would happen is the shield would overload and shut down. Remember to shut down shields you need a massive amount of energy, and I think that woudl definitely set the shield off.

[piterdevries]

who are the naibs?the qizarate?

[Khan]

The Naibs are the leaders of each sietch, such as stilgar.

The qizarate are,if I recall correctly, the religious 'corps' of the fremen, like a sort of church thingy.

[Tako]

the qizarat is the priest corps they have are not warriors anymore they have devoted there lives to god (muad'dib) and preach in his name.

Javid was a qizarat priest and so was korba (who ones was a fedaykin)

Paul descibed Koba as an religious fanatic in the miniserie ( don't know if it is ointhe book also)

@Piter: have you read the books or have you just wached the miniseries?

[Dante]

And why don't all these questions go here?