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Acriku

Acriku

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Ah the wonderful feeling when you see a thread starting out as Good and Evil, and ending(I can only hope) as a stupid argument about who is more powerful than who, or who saved who's ass. Cmon people, stick to the subject or start a different thread.

Mahdi

Mahdi

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Now, back to the Good Versus evil discussion:

How many of you are Christians here? How many believe that God and Jeasus are good?

Now that youa re thinking about that, lets take a look at this:

Paul did not want the Jihad to begin, he did everything to aviod it. Paul did not go out of his way to start a new religion, he jsut fit into one already made, and no matter what he did the Fremen would always think of him as there Mahdi. Even though the Quizarate (or whatever it is called) is a Church based on Paul and supossiddly is under him, in truth it was a seperate entity from him, run by others, as is seen by the interview at the beggining of Dune Messiah (They ahve there own prisons) and the fact that it tried to assasinate Paul, as seen in Dune Messiah. The Quizarate, being the Church of Paul's religion, was the force behind the jihad, it just used his name. Paul did not kill those 61 billion people, nor did he wan't them killed, they were jsut killed in his name.

Jeasus did not go out of his way to create a new religion, he was a devote Jew, he just wanted to change the religion. It was others who decided that he should be the focus of a new religion, jsut like it was others who decided Paul should be a focus of religion. The Roman Catholic church is a Church based on Jeasus, and supossidly under him, but they are obviously a seperate entity. Jeasus does not run the Church. Same with Protestant Churchs, etc. Jeasus did not kill all those millions of people who ahve been slaughtered in various wars/inquisitions/etc., nor would he have wanted them killed, they were jsut killed in his name.

exatreide

exatreide

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i kind of look at mua'dib kinda like there jesus. i mean did jeasus want the crusades or the spanish inquasition. haha nobody expects the spainish inquasition. he did not want it. but they did it in his name. just like mud'dib. they said 40 relgions destoryed in the jihad. how many religons did jesus fowlers destroy? he did not want that. it just happend. that is if you belive in jesus.

Acriku

Acriku

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Yes but Jesus could have stopped them, couldnt he? Well that depends on your beliefs I guess. Anyways, yeah Jesus is sorta like Muad'Dib, but to a small extent.

exatreide

exatreide

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well in a way jesus killed millions(maybe not millions but thousands.) even if he did it on porpose or not. and people still worship him. same with muad'dib. oh boy is this is going to start something.

quoudam72

quoudam72

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Well said Mahdi. This may or may not start something we have not offended the name of Christ. One small thing Jesus never killed anyone but some have killed in his name for their own purposes.

garth

garth

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I think Paul should've publicly denounced the Jihad since he's the one that unleashed the fremen on the universe to begin with.

It probably wouldn't have stopped the Jihad but it would've been a vain attempt at showing some semblance of humanity.

About Jesus:

There is a great parallelism between the Bible and Dune, the fundamental difference is that Shaddam IV (Caesar) failed in having Paul Atreides (Jesus) executed. The end result was the same, the Corrino Empire (Roman Empire) was destroyed and the universe (Europe) fell into the Dark Ages (the Atreides spice monopoly?).

Very loose interpretation :)

I sure hope this doesnt turn into a religious debate, those are a billion times messier than a political one hehe

exatreide

exatreide

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well if you think what paul did was evil you have to think what jesus did was evil too. i kinda think of jesus as a hittler that succeded.(ouch! i can all ready feel the flams off hell nipping at my toes) but it is kinda true...

Mental note reamber to by some sun screen HP 4000

ordos45

ordos45

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ok about the Jesus thing. According to Christian religion (Yes I am Christian, a Baptist actually) Jesus was God's son. Leto I was not god (though his grandson claimed to be) and Paul did not die for all our sins last time I checked and Paul did not come back from the dead.

Once again I point out that if they all do believe the Ornge Catholic Bible then the people in the Dune Books know they have heaven or hell to look forward to for all eternity. But lets not get into a religious debate which will have us all worked up, trust me it gets ugly fast.

Acriku

Acriku

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You know, in Dune Messiah, it was awesome to see Duncan back alive, and the way he foiled the "Master Plan", man was that spectacular, but on the topic Paul also claimed to be a God to his people, not just LetoII. And also The Tleilaxus rock.

Digital Guerrilla

Digital Guerrilla

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Paul was like Jesus only in the prophet sense after that there is no comparison. Jesus caused alot of problems with the other Jews because he challanged the way they practiced Judism but he never up took arms and commanded an army. I know you guys know this. So there is really little to compare Paul and Jesus on.

Edric O

Edric O

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Some of you are blind! Dune was indeed inspired by history. There is a great paralel between Muad'hib and a cetain prophet in our history... Mahommed! Can't you see? The Jihad, the arab-like fremen, it all falls into place! Even the fremen words are derived from arabic!

ExAtreides, I'm making a real effort not to flame you to hell (nice choice of words, isn't it?). What %#@^&% resemblance is there between Christ the Saviour and Hitler (aka satan's little pet)??? They are the most different people in history! Jesus Christ preached love and compasion. "Turn the other cheek". He wanted humanity to live in harmony. Hitler wanted humanity to live (sort of) under the most evil regime that the word has ever seen!

Crimes have been commited in the name of Christ, sadly. But they blatantly contradicted his teachings. The crusaders and the inquisition did exactly what Christ told them not to do. However, those things happened over a thosand years after Jesus' ressurection. Muad'hib, on the other hand, was very much alive in the time of the Jihad. And he didn't ONCE speak against it. Jesus spoke against those crimes through the Bible.

I am a Christian. And all Christians know the biggest difference between Muad'hib and Jesus Christ: Jesus was the son of God and Muad'hib was not. Jesus made miracles and Muad'hib did not. Jesus died for our sins and ressurected. Muad'hib did not. Most importantly, Paul Muad'hib was a false prophet and HE KNEW IT.

exatreide

exatreide

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is this the highest ever on dune2k.com? an you check the things hompage to see what the hiest ever was. and yes pual did die for there sins i think that why he went into the desert. um......last time i checked he come back to life as the preacher man.the reason jesus did not command a army is becouse the roman army did not kill god. if they did i'm sure jesus would have done the same thing. by the way i'm a atheist.

quoudam72

quoudam72

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There is no parallel between Muad'Dib and Muhammad nor Jesus have we forgotten that Maud'Dib is a fictional character. And as far as the Crusades go that was politics in a religious clothing.IMO

exatreide

exatreide

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i dont consider turning water to wine a big miricla. i bet jesus was a big hit at parties. "Hey jesus we ran out of wine you think you could do us a faver and you know do your miricla thing?" "thanks man." hittler wanted to be a messiah even though the only miricla he did was survive for 5 years on three daily injections of speed. and there men died in the name of hittler not in the name of the mother land. just like the people of the crusads did. just like mua'dib um........see what i'm trying to get at here? there all the same. and who is to say that jesus was NOT a lying sack of donkey crap? we have no proof that he realy existed. except a 2,000 year old book.and think of all the religons jesus and his worshipers destroyed.

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