salikadali

Thnx for replies. ExAtr- Some good pts.- I guess games can be theraputic some what. RPG/adventure games are kind of like reading fiction, except you can become or create the characters, which is fun. FPS- stress relief, I like Tribes2, TFC, although, TFC can have alot of sh*t talking sometimes, which gets old. Have any of you played/or finished Half-Life? A great game, I was amazed at the end, when you had to fight a demon called Nihilanth, or something like that, I mean, the analogy is your fighting Nihilism, which I thought was very clever. Its making a (somewhat obscure) philosophical point with a FPS, and its a fun game, with a great(although aging) game engine.

Looks cool. The machine gun the center character has looks like an old WW2 era machine gun.

Why do humans play games? just curious to know what some of you guys think. Being a gamer myself, I often wonder, because it is fun, and I am seriously considering designing some games. I suppose there are serious games, which somecan be called survival, and then nonserious games, like sports, which simulate competition. I guess nature is competitive, predator/prey, most of the games we play for fun are non-life threatening, which is a good thing in my opinion.:)

I like the game; its fun, its got good graphics, and the game play is balanced(for the most part, although the Atriedes seem a bit stronger if played correctly). I have experienced a whole lot of rushing tactics on the multiplayer games, it is frustrating sometimes, because; how fun is it to play a game and lose in the first 5 minutes because someone blows up your carryalls and harvesters. Well, I agree, it is more fun when the games last long enough to actually build a base and an army. One way to do this is playing against friends, or in custom games, and establish a no rush rule, or no attack in the first # minutes ect. Another way,(you almost have to do this when you play the tournament games because they usually rush), is to find a way to defend against the rush, or build a rush of your own. Personally, I defend against it, and I have found that this throws off the rusher's game somewhat, allowing a more competitive, better (and fun,thats the point right?) game. Quick rush defense strategy for ATR-you don't neccesarily have to go straight for the high tech units, in fact you can build quite a nice early defense force with the cheaper units, then get the high tech stuff after you can defend yourself. Early Defense force units- 5-10 sandbikes, 2 mongooses, 3-10kinjal(very effective unit if used correctly, learn to use the "D" key for deployment),-snipers, and reg. infantry. nd deploy near harvesters, and some in base, on inf. rock or near a MG turret. A small force of kinjal's can decimate a large force of buzzsaws, if on inf. rock, they also need support(i.e. sandbikes, and snipers, and lets not forget the reg. light infantry, which are cheap and provide many targets. Take your initial units and move them imidiately to where your harvesters are,( a few sandbikes(300 solaris) can easily take out a missle tank(1200?) I have found, that the majority of the good tournament players go straight for your harvesters, so defend them, or attack his, and play LAN, or custom with friends, and establish a no rush rule at beginning. Once you get past the rush, defend the base, and build up a nice army. Oh yea, I almost forgot, FREMEN, they are relatively cheap and very very effective, and thier building does not require power, so you can build them early. Saudakar are good, but better later in the game, because they are more expensive and take longer to build. I have a 56k, and have experienced very little lag, or connection problems with the multiplayer. So far,its been fun, and competitive;) GLHF, hope this helps :)

Last night I was playing a game, it was a great game, it went back and forth for about an hour and a half. Most of my buildings had been blown up, except my barracks, refineries, and a windtraps. I had a lot of money, so I started making tons of infantry. I had hurt my opponent pretty bad too, and I attacked his base with the few units I had, and all the infantry. It worked, and his base was destroyed, and at the same time he dropped a Devestator in my base, which destroyed all my buildings. I destroyed his dev, and he only had 1 advanced carryall, and 1 constuction yard left, which he was flying around and I could not catch him. I had no buildings, and only had 1 minotaur, and about 5 kinjal. Niether one of us could win, but we could not stalemate. I decided to give him the win, since he seemed concerned more than I was about it. Does anyone know how to stalemate, or if you can?

Sounds interesting.

In my opinion, the Mongols were similar in that they conquered, but, it seems to me, Herbert's idea of the Fremen was of a different sort. The Fremen were oppressed by the Harkonnen, and they had a strict religion, and social order, based on survival. I agree with Ordos23, in that they kind of resemble the Isalmic fighters. I have studied Islam, and Herbert undoubtedly references it in regard to the Fremen. - Thoughts of Stilgar in reference to his fear of the twin children of Paul: (Children of Dune pg.6) "I am an attendent yet, and my Master is God the Merciful, the Compassionate." -and this part is almost(if not totally from the Quran)- thoughts of Stilgar as he quotes to himself a Fremen belief(Children of Dune, same page)- "Surely, We have put on their necks fetters up to the chin, so their heads are raised; and WE have put before them a barrier and behind them a barrier; and We have covered them, so they do not see." Thus it was written in the old Fremen religion.- In the Quran,(the english translation) "We" is capitalized, because it refers to God. The same is true here. I have no doubt that Herbert was thinking of Islam, when he was thinking of the Fremen. I agree, the fictional Fremen were similar to the Mongols in that they conquered, but there are underlying fundamental differences in regard to religion, and, I beleive, Herbert's Fremen had some sense of compassion and mercy, beyond just conquering, Which the Mongols were known to be merciless,(for the most part), and the Mongols did not bring religion, they just conquered and ruled, and some of the Mongols actually converted to Islam, and the ethnic Kurds in Iraq are decendents of the Mongols. Hmmm, interesting. Im not trying to justify the "Fremen Jihad," here. I am just pointing out some interesting things, and the differences(I believe) between the Mongols and Herbet's Fremen.

Setting the area for harvesters is a good improvement, and I think the airdrones are more balanced.

One of the most effective and annoying tactics is what is known as the rush tactic. A player will build and send units as fast as possible to the enemy's base or harvesters. This tactic is common to most RTS games, and Dune is no exception. Here are some of my rush strategies- I mostly play Atriedes, so I am most familiar with them. Atriedes: Upgrade barracks, then build a factory while upgrading refinery. build 5 or so speeder bikes( don't underestimate the sandbikes, they can kill a Hark missle tank in a few shots, and they are cheap and fast to build)- add to this 5 or so kinjal, and either snipers or infantry or both. Then 2 mongooses. You should have scouted the map already, then either use to defend your harvs or attack the opponent's, depending on wether he is attacking you or not. USE INFANTRY ROCK with the Atriedes at every opportunity. 5 or so kinjal on inft. rock, backed up by some anti-infantry units can stop a much larger force of tanks easily. Also have some base defense, I have found 3 kinjal and a MG tower is cheap and effective. Take the initiative- Take the attack to your opponent, if he is defending, he is not attacking. After the initial force, build an extra factory and start building minotaurs, mixed with a few mongooses for air defense. Mix in some kinjal and have some Fremen as a flanking force. Go fast, if you sit, the other guy will probably attack, giving him the initiative. Beware Ordos hit and run with las tanks and gas troops early in the game,- counter with sandbikes and kinjal/snipers. Also beware of the Hark infantry rush,buzzsaws and the missle tank- which will go after your carryall. Counter with, again, sandbikes and kinjal/10-15 light inf./2-5 snipers. Try not to build the expensive pieces first, this will put you at a disadvantage against an experienced player, early in the game. Agian- use inf. rock if possible. If your lucky, this should at least buy some time to build your more powerful weapons. Also, move your harvesters to an easily defendable position. This is easy with the new patch(one of my favorite improvements) to control harv. deployment. good luck, see you on Arrakis :)

Maybe a subhouse specific unit that is infantry, but heavily armored like a tank. A cross between a mech and an infantry. With jumpjets, a chaingun, and rockets. Effective against infantry, tanks, and air. Maybe Sardaukar, or a completely different subhouse. It would cost about 500, and have a slow building time, because its so powerful. Power armored trooper, good all around unit, but vulnerable to anti-armor weapons like the kinjal. They could travel in a straight line and just jumpjet over the terrain. Good for base attacks, support, or harvester raids. Hmm, maybe a little too good?

Interesting Historical sidenote: I do not know the exact date, but there was a battle that took place in the Germany-Poland area between a large force of European Knights and the Mongol Horde under Batu Khan(Gengis's nephew). Batu was in charge of the Golden Horde, which was a section of the Mongol Empire around the Black sea area. The Mongols decided to send a "scouting and raiding detachment" of around 20,000 light and heavy cavalry. (a full Mongol army could consist of 100,000 or more at that time.) The Europeans, mostly Knights of German feudal lords, took to the field around 40,000, but mostly foot soldiers. The Europeans did have cavalry, mounted Knights in heavy armor of equal numbers or more than the Mongols. The Mongols used a tactic they had used many times before- they sent out a small, fast force of light cavalry to within view of the Knights, then withdrew. The European knights, sensing an easy victory, and inexperienced with this type of warfare, charged after the light cavalry, unable to catch them. They committed a grave error, allowing the enemy to choose the ground, and at the same time separating themselves from the foot soldiers. The 20,000 or so Mongols surrounded the slower heavily armed Knights, and proceeded to fire arrows from horseback, thining the ranks of the knights, killing thier horses, and creating panic and confusion. After that, the Mongols attacked with their full force, which included their own heavy cav, armored, and armed with scimitars and spears- against the Knights. Heavy casualties on both sides, but the knights were decemated and the Mongols won the battle. The Mongols did not penetrate any further into Europe than this. Around this time, there was also a large battle near Buda-Pest with Mongols and the Hungarian Cavalry(which was one of the most powerful armies in Europe) that the Mongols won(this was one of the first uses of artillery, Mongolian catapults lobing gunpowder bombs at the Hungarian Cavalry encampments.)Batu was planning an invasion of Europe, then, suddenly Ghengis Khan died, leaving his succession in dispute, and Batu abandoned his plans for the European invasion and returned to Mongolia. One can only wonder how history might have changed, considering how divided Europe was at the time.

The Fremen were like Mongols in that they were fierce fighters, but the Mongols were murderous- (they would slaughter whole cities of men, women, and children), only to set examples of terror to the people they conquered. The Fremen, I think, were somewhat more moral. The Mongols had no specific religion, but adopted many religious ideas and beliefs from those they conquered- i.e. Islam. The Mongols excelled at warfare, but were less able to govern, eventually losing control of most of their conquered territories through internal conflict and rebellions. The reality of what they conquered is staggering; almost all of Asia- by the 1400's, from parts of East Germany-Poland to India, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Balkans and the Black sea area,and most of China. Ghengis Kahn's grandson, Kublia Khan, invaded and conquered southern China, then attempted an invasion of Japan, but failed due to storms at sea. The Japanese refer to these storms as the "Divine Wind."

The Fremen that challenged Paul- his name was Jamis In the Lynch film, he was played by none other than Liam Neeson (Qui Gon Jin in Star Wars) but that scene was cut.

Ah, Mongolia. Is Mongolia a part of China(governed by China)? Could Tibet be considered a different country? I guess its the Chinese "sphere of influence", which includes North Korea.- all labled "communist." The Chinese appear to have a government that resembles the Stalin dictatorship in Russia- called "communist, but really dictatorships or Oligarchies(rule by a small group, i.e.- the Party" who manage and control the resources according to a set policy- given by the small group in control( small in compare to the entire population - such as China- population over 1 billion). I agree, its called communism- but its not really. Its definatly not a democracy. This is true of the United States as well though, - The US is not really a true Democracy, its more of a republic- with a senate, a president, all elected, but not exactly by popular vote.

lol, Anime can be cool, Ninja scroll, Ghost in the shell, Akira, Fist of the North Star, are some of my favorites,(violent- but good). Akira is good, but I think I would understand it better if I read the graphic novels. Does anyone have an idea what exactly happens at the end of Akira, I mean, Tetsuo becomes an ameoba-ok, then what? does he eat Tokyo? - its been a while since I've seen it. Yea Moidib, some of the humor doesn't translate well from Japanese to English-haha :)

So, a technocracy would probably have a class system, with the scientists being the elite class. hmm, well I suppose a technocracy could be many different things, like- technocracy/democracy of technocrats , or Technocracy/dictatorship, where the dictator is also a scientist and a technocrat, or Socialist Technocratic Democracy, or Imperial Technocratic Oligarchy, ect. ect...

So whats the fifth communist country? Ex, im curious new icon is cool, sniper cool also

nonresearched guess : China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, and um, Cambodia? (only communist in name, probably)- better word "dictatorship," or oligarchies. By the way; what exactly is a Technocracy?

Some of the voice acting is comic. In the middle of a battle, to hear "radiation level: huh, whatever," is somewhat funny.

Yea, cool. Im a sword master. congrats to Klobbersaurus and myself

How many post to change rank? 20

Well, maybe because its easier for it to travel over rough terrain, and maybe because it looks cool, and also maybe the Atriedes wanted to have mech units instead of tanks, just to be different. I think the first reason is the more practical one, although I do not see any difference between where tanks can go, and where mechs can go in the actual game, and I agree, Minos are annoyingly slow.

Ok, I attempted to answer this question in the general discussion/general discussion section, for those interested- in the "Water of life" topic.

Interesting question, I was asking a similar question in the Gom jabbar thread, but I guess this topic belongs here more than in Emp. BFD section. Anyway, that is a very good question, why did many men die?, what was it about the Water of life? I remember Paul saying something about all the visions of the future were closing, and he had to take the water of life to open them, to free what could save them. Even after he took the Water, he could still not see beyond the point where he had to fight Feyd, that being sort of a fulcrum point that hinged different futures. What if Feyd had won the fight? a different future, probably not good. Hmmm. I always thought it was interesting how Paul won that fight; Jessica told him to use a (power word?) that would relax Feyd's muscles, but Paul refused the advantage (wanting it to be fair)- he wispered during the fight that he did not want to use the advantage, in that instant Feyd hesitated, his poison needle missed, and Paul(Moidib) won. Hmm, cool. I remember an analogy from the book; that the difference between having the visions (granted by the spice and the Water of Life, perhaps, but Paul was having visions even before he took these substances) were like the difference between standing at the bottom of a dune in the desert, where all you can see is the next dune, and standing at the top of the dune, where you can see many dunes unfolding(like the future). Hence the name Dune.;) Herbert's idea of the masculine and feminine points of view, and how it was harder for men to take the water of life than women, this is very interesting and difficult to answer. Umm, ok, here goes my attempt, but First I have to say that I believe that Men and Women have the same equal value, regardless of the different attributes of the sexes. (this is a touchy subject) Here goes, Man is the provider, the hunter, the seeker, the risk taker, the Father, /Women is the nurturer, the childbearer, the security, the Mother. Testosterone/Estrogen(although the individual mind of the person is always a factor). This is just a guess, but maybe when a person took the Water of Life, they experienced the primitive urges of of their particular sex, the Women's being more Life Giving and thus less dangerous, the Man's being more risk oriented and Life Threatening, and thus more dangerous. Maybe that is why it terrified the Women who were afraid to look there. The power of life and death is a great power,and at the same time a great responsibility, all life has value, some of the Native Americans believed this, I believe this, Power should be tempered with wisdom and justice. Maybe in Herbert's mind, the men who could not control themselves, sort of self destructed upon recieving this power from the "water of life." Well, I hope that helps. Wfeew. :)

Drop tactics- the use of Advanced carryalls to deploy units Here are some of my strategies for drop tactics: Atriedes- build 2-5 Advanced Carryalls(the more the better, but don't bankrupt yourself) then drop five minos(because they are good against buildings) in opponent's base- take out refineries, then con yard, and factories and whatever else you can, very effective. Hark- same but with devestators(detonate devs when life gets low) Ordos- kobras, Ordos are fast, and have somewhat different tactics, but still effective Also- don't forget about engineers in apcs, done at the same time as the other drops to add to confusion, or by themselves, sneaky and effective And another thing- after you deploy the units, you can use the Adv Carryalls to pick up enemy units(harvs, or tanks)- These tactics could win the game, but watch out for Anti Air.