Navaros Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 You see the enemy saying they are surrendering and don't wanna gun them down. Fine, that is somewhat understandable.But, that doesn't mean you break out the booze and start partying because you see the white flag.Really, how stupid would you have to be to die due to a "Fake Surrender?" Disturbingly stupid, no doubt.I am sure the USA's troop were trained to be skeptical about any surrendering persons, and to survey the ground for an ambush prior to taking them into custody and prior to approaching and/or restraining the prisoners. And to keep the actual surrenderees under the Gun until this surveying is complete and they are actually restrained.I've never even had any military training and even *I* know this. It's common sense. Yet the morons who have been through millions of dollars of high-tech formal training - at the expense of wasting the average taxpayer's money -in official USA military facilities go and get killed despite having had this training. Must have a *really* low bar for mental competence in terms of who they let join the US Army. :O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostHunter Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Aronhk please MAKE TOPICS ABOUT THINGS YOU KNOW...God forbid we have another Edric.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 I am usually not uptight about content of a post, but dont you think this was a bit insensitive man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navaros Posted March 24, 2003 Author Share Posted March 24, 2003 just being realistic. not many people seem to want to be realistic about such things, so i wanted to approach this from a realistic angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Arohk, first of all it isn't the Army - it is the Marine Corps. And you do not have all the details of this incident, you don't know that they didn't put their guns down, and didn't have guns behind them or whatever. You don't know, so you make an ignorant post about the soldiers that died there. You are Navaros, I am quite convinced now. Get out of this board before you piss off the whole community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navaros Posted March 24, 2003 Author Share Posted March 24, 2003 marine's get just as good training, do they not?it doesn't matter if they had guns hidden on them/on the ground near them/buddies hiding in the bushes and/or rocks nearby/ or *whatever* the situation happened to bepoint is, a good marine/soldier would have been trained to *expect* all of those things, and have kept the surrendering persons under meticulous guard until the whole area had been thoroughly searched. if this had been done, at the first moment of suspicion the surrenderees could have been engaged and no one would die to any fake surrenderno matter how ya slice it, to die to a fake surrender results from carelessness combined with stupidity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Marines have a more intense training and more rigorous. Otherwise, what would be the use of having the two branches?We are keeping along with the Geneva Treaty. We cannot shoot at men waving the white flag. Simple as that. And we cannot fire unless fired at. So, it isn't so stupid dying from this incident, it is the risks of following the Geneva Treaty and sometimes those risks become reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pan Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Plus, don't you think that they would want to actually have a real reason to shoot before they have to? They aren't people that are there just for the "fun" of killing people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 they arent the first sent on the front lines because of their superior training. Marines are bullet spunges.lol ;)Acriku is right though. he is also right about you being navaros. What makes me realize that more is not how you act, but your flat out ignoring of anybody who says it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 God forbid we have another Edric.And what is that supposed to mean, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Read your previous posts about USA and find out ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 what i was wondering was not how idiotic you have to be to die to a faked surrender....but how idiotic you have to be to fake a surrender to the allied forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Not only they fight for a mass-slaughter, also they fight as the last barbarians without any honor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowzeewee Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Fake surrender=Pretend to surrender to get coalition troops' attention while u sneak on them and shoot them,get it?A-R-O-K-H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Hey, the Iraqis are not very barbaric... they're rather inventive. You say they do not respect the laws of war. Let me tell you something: war is won with initiative, with courage, and without any morals.It's absurd to make laws for war: laws on how to kill people?And now about idiotic deeds: shooting up you own Patrion missle launcher, shootin down an allied aricraft, shooting a reporter because he was mistaken with a Iraqis. I think that's dumb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 It isn't dumb. It is the lack of communication between the forces to establish friendlies, or not, and also accidents happen. Iraqi are not very well inventive, otherwise they wouldn't be dying by the hundreds so quickly, with little to none coalition casualties. They are barbaric, but atleast some have the common sense to surrender (for real). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I said that was an effective tactic to lure the enemy into fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I say that they better come up some original tactics if they want to live longer than the time it takes for a Marine to load his clip :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Hey, but they aren't trained as well as a Marine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken124578 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 shooting a reporter because he was mistaken with a Iraqis. I think that's dumb!That was a dumb reporter, he went alone in iraq and thought he would make it on his own without the protection of um... the allied forces?, ofcourse he was mistaken to be with the iraqis, they didn't knew that he was there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Hey, the Iraqis are not very barbaric... they're rather inventive. You say they do not respect the laws of war. Let me tell you something: war is won with initiative, with courage, and without any morals.It's absurd to make laws for war: laws on how to kill people?And now about idiotic deeds: shooting up you own Patrion missle launcher, shootin down an allied aricraft, shooting a reporter because he was mistaken with a Iraqis. I think that's dumb!Have you ever heard about Geneva Conventions? When you raise white flag, you surrendered and declared cease fire for both units. Today's war isn't just killing people. It's more fight of machines than bloody skirmish, also we have some rules which weapons can be used. Iraq many times used banned strategies and equipment, that also caused the war an now it seems it's right.Mistakes are everywhere. When one ditch fires on another one, isn't it risky to go between them? I think THAT is dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I agree to "attack" a country that has agreed upon those convetions (ex. Geneva Convetion) and won't respect it. I dont think Iraq has agreed with that... You can't blame them for not respecting somehing they did't actually sign.Anyway, war is war, is a crime comitted between nations. I can't comprehend any rules of war. Apart from the thing with the POWs (BTW, the Iraqis executed the POWs they capured - yeah, that's a REAL crime) war can't possibly have any other rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 It doesn't matter that they didn't sign the GC, it does not free them from their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunenewt Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 shooting a reporter because he was mistaken with a Iraqis. I think that's dumb!That was a dumb reporter, he went alone in iraq and thought he would make it on his own without the protection of um... the allied forces?, ofcourse he was mistaken to be with the iraqis, they didn't knew that he was there!Which reporter is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I agrre the execution of those POWs is a crime.But you can't blame a coutry for not respecting something it did't sign.Well, if I make a "pact" with some friends, is everyone obliged to respect it? NO. Only those who signed it can be blamed for their actions. (I am talking about the thing with the laws of war, apart from the GC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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