Utopic State

[Caid Ivik]

What would be the your form of utopical state? No world-state's, I mean a state, which should please all your political needs and still be able to stand between "non-perfect" states.

[Vanguard3000]

I don't think it would be possible, even with an "enlightened despot". People are too different (and too flawed, in their own way) from each other to have a perfect utopia.

[Boba Fett]

Yeah, quite right.

Hey, does believe that the Iraq situation is going to die down in a week or two without the same results as Afghanistan?

I do, for one.

[Egeides]

If present government were not alowed to contract alliances without people's permission, and if they were not alowed to make certain measures without consent (like taking measures making the poor even more poor while they say they did opposite measures...), it would already be a beginning.

And first of all: not base elections on the amount of money collected (espwescially not by corporations) and make these damn medias independent: their revenue not being based on corporations' ads, not letting them be owned all by same guy, owner not possessing God knows which company he promotes, etc.

[Dante]

Utopia for me = autocratic state with ME at the head of it. Of course it would need a strong army. Not to contend with outside forces, as i'd be diplomatically friendly, but to supress any inside rebellions as nobody can keep everyone happy.

Of course a utopia for EVERYBODY is impossible...

[Davidu]

An enlighted despot... some sort of monarchy... actually a dictator chosen for life by the people.

[Dude_Doc]

Have anyone seen the movie (don't really know the name, but I guess it is) Black River? Some spoilers ahead... In the movie, a writer comes trought the town, and decides to stay (I think he was looking for a home or something). He arrives, and the town seems to be nice and perfect, everyone seems to be happy. But then, when he is ready to leave, mysterious things start to happen. First, his car is confescated, while he is in prison, accused for having drugs and stealing the car (which is actually his car). He is realeased, and pardoned. Then, the police officer says that the car has dissapeared. The writer has to stay in a hotel. When they get his car, it has by misstake, been trashed, and compressed into a cube. Then, when he tries to leave with the train, it appears that there will be no trains passing the town for some time. As the story goes by, the writer, in the end, gets to know that there was a project going on in the local computer/tech industry, and that they was going to create an Artificial Intelligence, which failed. Or so everyone believes. So, when the writer "ask" the AI why he can't leave, the answer is: "I want you to be happy". And so it ends, he is forced to stay. The movie did provide some interesting "facts" about the human race and behaviour. For one: a human can never rule. Humans will become greedy, only thinking about himself, not to make everyone happy. An AI on the other side, is not a human, and has all the information on Earth, because he is pretty much the internet itself. An AI can also never be a human, or live like one. That's why an AI could rule the humans, like in the Butlerian Jihad. It also states that sometimes humans do not know what they really want, or what to do next. An AI can always point them into the right direction.

So yes, the perfect government could be a government where one person has the authority, but not a greedy one, which is basically impossible. The thing is that as long as the people can't have whatever they want for free, or have unlimmited with money, there will never be satisfaction.

[Vanguard3000]

Davidu: Even an enlightened despot would not be able to please everyone. He or she could only do what is best for society (i.e. the "General Will").

[Caid Ivik]

I don't think it would be possible, even with an "enlightened despot". People are too different (and too flawed, in their own way) from each other to have a perfect utopia.

Not for all people. What do you think what would be the best state in your opinion?

[Boba Fett]

You know, the sorta state in which people live like brothers, never commit sins, don't commit any crimes etc etc is a utopic state according to most godly, selfless people.

But I'm not like that. No way.

A utopic state for me would be one in which kids get to have whatever foodstuff they want, FREE, and the same rule applies to all other age groups.

And the people should live like brothers stuff. But the food thing is more important ;D

PS- By foodstuff I didn't mean the veggies health freaks eat. I meant REAL food, like pizzas etc ;)

[Dude_Doc]

A perfect community is where everything is free, or where everyone is rich.

[Acriku]

My utopic state: The entire population must serve 4 years minimum in the military and throughout their lives pass a PFT so that they do not get lazy or obese, all of this in order to become a citizen of my state. Being a citizen, freedoms are distributed and some restrictions taken away. It would be a capitalist/socialist economy, the goods of both, with checks and balances in power - with a democratic government. Space exploration will be the most funded project, and colonization will be done only to citizens.

[Caid Ivik]

You like R.Henlein too? ;)

But I think too SOME civil rights should be given only for those who WANT them. For example elections. Why should state spend so much money on plebiscites and votes for 4 million people, when will vote only a half? Not saying that most will come only because they are bored. Worst result is a chaos in politics and "funny" parties like ANO in parliaments. And they know nothing about politics. I would say that election right should be based on voluntary examinations of political knowledge and after them person (if passes, altough the quota should be low) will receive the election right.

[TMA_1]

the closest way of creating a utopic state:

Destroy technology and the ambition that goes along with it.

destroy activism and radical ideals in a culture.

Live in small communities where everything is shared throughout the village.

Basically Tribalism.lol Columbus said that he had found the lost garden of eden when he landed on the america's. He said he had found the Antedeluvians (people who lived before the flood) and that their peaceful ways and hospitality was unmatched.

The biggest problem with my idea of utopia is ambition. It is the greatest evil in the universe.

[Edric O]

COMMUNIST UTOPIA

'nuf said. :)

[Vanguard3000]

I agree, Edric. "Perfect" Marxist communism would be the best all around. But in order for such a society to work, people have to not be greedy, petty, etc. This is how the Star Trek universe operated, but I sincerely doubt it's possible in reality without some serious brainwashing campaigns. ;)

While we're speaking of ideals, an enlightened despot, as I said before, would be the perfect ruler, but those are pretty rare (if not non-existant) and, even if we had one, how could we be sure his/her sucessor would be as "enlightened"?

[VigilVirus]

I would be the absolute ruler of my utopia. All of the people below be will be brainwashed with mind-controlling drugs that will make them happy and eager to work, yet take away their desire for power and greatness. The primary industry would be technology, including weaponry and life-prolonging and cybernetic sciences, so that I may live forever and conquer my barbaric neighbors, turning their population into mindless, but happy drones.

Anthem/Brave New Worldesque

;D :D

[Dude_Doc]

As soon as we will have robots and machines doing all the work, the sooner human responsibillity, work, and caring will dissapear. The machines will collect what we need, and we will live like a human should live.

[Caid Ivik]

I was wondering how should look a result of "fortunocracy", rule of randomly chosen decisions from offers posted by citizens. Execution of decisions would be provided by androids. I think this would be a very just system.

[Dude_Doc]

If machines ruled the law, police and government (well, to have the robots working and humans living luxury), no one would be able to manipulate the law and order.

[Boba Fett]

Yeah, bribes wouldn't work ;D. The only way to get around those android cops would be to disable the defence mechanism and then re-program the whole IC unit ;).

OR you could just blow up the damn Android 8).

[Mahdi]

Actual definition of Utopia: "No-place".

[Acriku]

That would be the greek translation atleast...

[Boba Fett]

You got a better one?

[Acriku]

No, I was just pointing out that it was the greek translation. Did I say something wrong?