"There can be no world peace without religious peace"

[Chani]

.. is the title for discussion of my thesis at uni..

I think it's fascinating, and have just started an extensive reading list on the subject...

What do you lot think?

[Muad dib]

Well some of the other 3rd world countries still run their goverment on religious laws. The only way that I can think of a solution is for everyone to be in one religion.

[Acriku]

It is my opinion that separate religions ignite war, and has in the past many times, so a uniform religion would bring us all together - but considering how hard that would be, in the mean time world peace is impossible. But we can work on it can't we? :D

[Vanguard3000]

Even if we were to have a unified religion, world peace would be pretty much impossible. With or without religion, you still have problems in the world. Perhaps if 100% of Earth's population was DEVOUTLY of this unified religion, things may get better, but that's about as likely as world peace in the first place.

[Acriku]

Let me put it this way, a uniform religion would eliminate the problems of diverse religions that press hard against world peace, and then we work on the other problems, if possible.

[emprworm]

religious peace will by no means bring world peace. not even in the slightest. the majority of human barbarism on this planet has nothing to do with religion. Nearly all violent crime in America, for example, is completely void of religion.

[Acriku]

Oh please emprworm. Do not be so naive. There will always be people whose beliefs go so deep that someone to have another belief will always anger them, causing prejudice against that person, and then can become mutual, and then escalate, and then if it's a population then war would start. It happened, it happens, it will happen. That's our nature, difference breeds prejudice for a lot of people.

[thomas]

"Only the dead see the end of War"-Plato. think about this qoute and a united religion idea.there will be some that disagree create differant factions and you got many differant factions that hate each other( catholics dislike protestants and HATE mormons, mormons HAte jehovahs witness vice versa) there will never be peace for every relion at least 2 factions arise from it it the same with all major religions; buddhism, shindu, christianity, islam, judhism. . . and more "jihads arrise and we got another damn problom from religious radicals :P

[SurlyPIG]

War over religion is becoming less and less frequent. Almost all of the conflict, hatred, hostility or tension in the world today is between countries similar in religion, race, and culture. Many of the small muslim factions absolutely loathe each other, though it's difficult for an outsider to tell one from the other!

It's still common, though its frequency is diminishing. There'll always be the Israel/Palestines and the Northern Irelands, but all-out war is becoming less and less common.

People will kill each other for the stupidest reasons. I don't think that'll change, as long as...nationalist feelings about one's country or race or ethnicity or religion or continent or area code or eyebrow shape or something. It takes an expert to distinguish people of the different tribes in Africa, but tribal warfare is still commonplace in the more isolated regions of Africa. Im sure many have heard of the '93 slaughters in Rwanda. Yugoslavia has never really been at peace either. Their wars have been more sophisticated but just as brutal.

Religion is but one of many things that can lead to wars. Holy wars of the worst of them. I mean even the name holy war is an oxymoron...

[TMA_1]

let me say this, you want to homogenize entire cultures based around religion. This unity is nothing more than destruction of culture that makes us who we are. I dont believe in other religions but at least I respect them more than a unified religion. Our country and the UN seem keen on this global paradise. I see it as a hell on earth when we have no individuality of culture or spirit. Take away religion and take away the basic structure of cultures. take away religion and everything else will eventually be taken away. just plain sick. Peace is impossible and we have to accept human failure.

[thomas]

Ahh yes the rwanda slauther the tootsies and the hootoos very sad and sick that the U.N. didn't take action in this 100 day masacare of over 800,000 people!! but there can't be peace period its against human nature and world peace is nearly impossible unless our earth is united totally which I see is far from now (Saddam, Kim Jong II, Momar Kadafee to name some) but peace may happen maybe just maybe. . .[/green]

[TMA_1]

Absolute peace would destroy culture. Culture as we know it is a hinderance of peace.

[SurlyPIG]

You have little faith in humanity TMA. Peace is achieved when all of humanity begins to tolerate each other for who we are, embrace personal differences and individuality but not kill for them. It is very possible.

Peace, to me, is the general belief of sane persons that decide as a knowledgeable unit not to engage in violence to settle disputes caused by differences. Obviously this ins't possible on a human by human scale, as there are always going to be KKK members, Al-Qaeda people etc. There'll always be a few wackos, but if the sane majority of humanity can just stop making each other suffer then peace has been achieved. I wouldn't call a timid Iraqi soldier unpeaceful...I would call him lied to. Grossly misinformed. Different than a choosing Al-Qaeda member, for instance.

IMO anyone who thinks world peace and societal non-violence is a threat to their culture probably just holds that position because they employ such things for their own gain. Who the heck would say that non-violence is a bad thing? ::) The world is full of too many bin Laden's and not enough Gandhi's.

[emprworm]

Oh please emprworm. Do not be so naive. There will always be people whose beliefs go so deep that someone to have another belief will always anger them, causing prejudice against that person, and then can become mutual, and then escalate, and then if it's a population then war would start. It happened, it happens, it will happen. That's our nature, difference breeds prejudice for a lot of people.

i know but beliefs are not the same as religion. a guy has a belief that he deserves the money in your cash register, so he kills you for it. it is intellectually dishonest to classify this as a religious crime, yet this represents most of the crime in the US. religious crime is far minority of crime

[TMA_1]

IMO anyone who thinks world peace and societal non-violence is a threat to their culture probably just holds that position because they employ such things for their own gain. Who the heck would say that non-violence is a bad thing? The world is full of too many bin Laden's and not enough Gandhi's.

Typical young idealism.lol

I am not doing it for my own gain. I am just afraid of what you dont see. That maybe peace can only be attained by giving other things up? It isnt worth peace to me to destroy the individuality of nations and cultures. Besides with the human nature, peace couldnt be attained in the first place.

[Chani]

There's this story that John Hick told, about the religions and their differences.

"In the jungle there is a tribe of blind people, who live totally apart from everyone else in a village. One day the elders decide they want to know what an elephant looks like. Three of the most trusted members of the tribe go out to find an elephant and when they come across one they feel it, to see how they can describe it to the rest of their blind tribe.

When they arrive back at the village, the tribe gather around and ask what the elephant looks like. The first man steps forward and says:

"It is big and flat, like a pancake"

The second man says:

"No, no it's long and thin, like a snake."

The third man says:

"You're both wrong, it's sturdy and solid like a tree trunk."

Because all three men were adamant the village split into 3 groups, each following the man they believed.

John Hick says that this is like religion. Each different religion in a world "felt a different part of the elephant" so to speak and if they could only see the whole picture we could move towards a global ethic and world peace.

(I am using John Hick as the "solution/ answer" to the quote in my thesis at the moment.)

[Caid Ivik]

Chani, religion is more than just an "opinion". Either you are atheist or very soft believer. Conflicts named "religious wars" are nothing else than nationalistic fightning. Both sides fight for their nation's cause, religion is many times used as curtain over real sources of hate. Every religion (instead of some cults like satanism) is based on love and tolerance. Islam too, why should Arabian terrorists attack atheistic Americans? They don't want to "defend Mecca". They want to crush powerful nation, just because they are jealous to its might.

[Chani]

I know it's not just an opinion, but for writing a thesis I am not supposed inject my religious beliefs, I have to keep an objective viewpoint, which is where that stpry comes in.

But yes, I agree with what you have said about love and tolerance. I think that will take up a bulk of my writing.

[Anathema]

Caid you are being very demeaning about terrorists. Those people believe in their religion with heart and soul, even give their lives for it and you dismiss it as mere jealousy. And America isn't atheistic, about 80 % of the people there believe in God.

Oh, and I resent the idea of having everybody believe in one single religion. When I have a slightly deviant opinion, will they put me against the wall and shoot me? And if they don't punish deviant opinions, how the hell do you expect this single religion to hold? People would start making their own religions over the smallest detail (like "did the snake really speak to Eva, or is that just figurative").

Thing is, in peace time people will start making enemies amongst eachother. You'd need an enemy, an group/country to focus negative feelings on. Like anyone with even slightly left wing views during the cold war, and now it's about muslims. There will never be a unity of mankind, unless some day in the future we run into some alien race.

[emprworm]

*zzzZZZzz*

I have one word for people who still...in the 21st century...try to blame all the evils of man on religion.....BORING.

i mean c'mon guys...how much crime goes on in the world today in the name of religion?

In third world countries, probably quite a bit.

In first world and second world countries....very little.

Don't you think its kind of arrogant to say that the majority of the world's crime is in the middle east and africa? That is a very LAME thing to say if anyone would. Crime is WORLD WIDE. Don't fool yourself into this wierd idea that only the Africans and the Middle-Eastern peoples are violent. Europoeans, Americans, Canadians, Mexicans, Russians...all have their share of violence and hatred. Yet how much of it is the fault of religion? Wake up people, this is not the dark ages anymore. Violence is no longer to be blamed on theocratic religious rulers. The Chechnyans and Russians have been in a bloodbath for more than a decade. Yet it has virtually nothing to do with religion- even though chech's are Muslim- that is not the core reason why they fight- it is about political and socio-economical independence which Russia doesn't want them to have. The US has thousands of murders per year...religion is the last thing on the murderers minds.

When Guedo is ordered by Italian mob boss to do a hit on charlie....is he doing it for Allah or because "God told him to?" LOL. Wake up man. Welcome to planet earth. Guedo does a hit on charlie because charlie borrowed money and never paid it back (or some other non-religious reason).

Get out of the dark ages people. its time you quit this silly and supid idea that religion is the cause for human evil, when HUMANS are the cause for human evil--- RELIGIOUS OR NOT. When no religion exists....VIOLENCE AND HATE STILL EXIST! Geeezz, I wonder why...?

haha, die sucka. and, btw, God didn't tell me to kill you, and i'm still killing you today.

[Apollyon]

I think the topic is more related to peace on the scale of no more war. Crime in the sense of your examples doesnt really qualify. And yes religion has caused more WARS than anthing else in the history of the world.

[Edric O]

I mean even the name holy war is an oxymoron...

Hey! Have you been reading my mind? :) Just yesterday I said the exact same thing in another forum... "Holy war" is indeed an oxymoron.

And yes religion has caused more WARS than anthing else in the history of the world.

Correction: Religion has been used as an excuse for war more often than anything else in the world. After all, it's a very convenient excuse to mask your true intentions... Just say you had a sudden divine revelation that you have to go conquer this other nation and grab all their lands and money for yourself. All in the name of God, of course... *cough* *cough*. ::)

As for the unified religion idea - that's basically saying that since differences in opinion cause wars, let's just force everyone to have the same opinion so we can live in peace. Ridiculous.

[Acriku]

As Apollyon said, emprworm crime will always be here, that isn't what is being discussed. Religion did cause those wars, wake up from yawning! If there was no religion (impossible but hypothetical) there wouldn't be something to believe in so deeply, just your nation and humanity. Religion goes deep into everybody that is religious, and in MANY times in history, one religion went against another religion. Did they choose those "victims" because they looked at them wrong? No! Because of their religion. No matter what you say, there is no way around it - religion is the cause, and war was the effect a lot of times. Maybe not now because we've grown, and wars don't happen so often and frequently, but it still remains. Why do the Palestines fight with the Israelians? Because the land looks nice? No! Because they believe that they were given that land and deserve it by their god, whatever it may be.

[emprworm]

And yes religion has caused more WARS than anthing else in the history of the world.

i dispute this. i hear this all the time and guess what? I dispute it.

[Acriku]

What makes you think so edric? You've been learning how to read minds from the past now? You can say what you think their real motive was, but it's pretty obvious.